Avengers 2 News, Rumors, Etc. Pictures until release...
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Start date
^Yeah. Caught that. Fixed.
And FSM, I'm sorry if you think certain comments aren't warrented, but when you come into every Marvel thread with a knee-jerk reaction of...
...and go in circles ad nauseum about it over and over and over, it really, actually does make it hard to take you seriously.
We get it. You don't want to like anything Marvel Studios produces. It's like a crusade for you. Believe me, we got it a looooong time ago. That poor horse is quite DEAD. Let it rest.
...and go in circles ad nauseum about it over and over and over, it really, actually does make it hard to take you seriously.
We get it. You don't want to like anything Marvel Studios produces. It's like a crusade for you. Believe me, we got it a looooong time ago. That poor horse is quite DEAD. Let it rest.
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I don't agree with Timby at all.
The two scenes of the bystanders in the building would be given different direction based on the event they are told will be happening.
In the Avengers, falling Quinjet, it's clear from the QJ's trajectory that it's not going to hit the building. No different than I'd feel sitting at a baseball game with the ball hit and zips right down the 3rd base line. Passively watch, no danger to me.
In the Godzilla example the creature is soaring towards the building only to swerve at the last minute. Similarly at my baseball game when the ball is foul tipped my way I duck only to notice it landed 1/2 a section over.
The Director tells them what the motion is that they are reacting to that will be in Post and that is that.
As for the last scene of them "doing nothing with their arms", they did just finish a sequence of fighting and this is a pause. During that pause Banner rolls up. The body's natural state of rest is arms down at one's side.
The two scenes of the bystanders in the building would be given different direction based on the event they are told will be happening.
In the Avengers, falling Quinjet, it's clear from the QJ's trajectory that it's not going to hit the building. No different than I'd feel sitting at a baseball game with the ball hit and zips right down the 3rd base line. Passively watch, no danger to me.
In the Godzilla example the creature is soaring towards the building only to swerve at the last minute. Similarly at my baseball game when the ball is foul tipped my way I duck only to notice it landed 1/2 a section over.
The Director tells them what the motion is that they are reacting to that will be in Post and that is that.
As for the last scene of them "doing nothing with their arms", they did just finish a sequence of fighting and this is a pause. During that pause Banner rolls up. The body's natural state of rest is arms down at one's side.
Yes it was.
And I actually had quite a post typed out to say why. But the thing is, you'll probably find something wrong with it, either in terms of plot/story, characters or the way I composed it. So why even bother.
Real honest question though; if you hate Marvel movies so much, aren't you sick and tired of spending so much time and money (you obviously watched the movies) on something you hate so much? I mean, the indepth analysis of the trailer means you didn't just quickly watch it. You picked it apart man. That takes time and effort. Again, why, if you hate it with such passion?
whether it's a puase or not, the bit with Banner driving up lacks energy.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEo40Y-Qrc[/yt]
In the first Transformers film.. there are similar pauses, but Bay (yes, Bay) fills even the still moments with a lot of energy, as what happens during the pause after Starscream's attack on the Furby truck.
Even during the pause, the camera is always moving, and the sense of dread and momentum doesn't actually stop.
This is not the exact moment I was referring to, but this scene starts with a pause in the battle, but the camera is moving, the characters are busy, and the tension isn't broken.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrvOrwFiLYk[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEo40Y-Qrc[/yt]
In the first Transformers film.. there are similar pauses, but Bay (yes, Bay) fills even the still moments with a lot of energy, as what happens during the pause after Starscream's attack on the Furby truck.
Even during the pause, the camera is always moving, and the sense of dread and momentum doesn't actually stop.
This is not the exact moment I was referring to, but this scene starts with a pause in the battle, but the camera is moving, the characters are busy, and the tension isn't broken.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrvOrwFiLYk[/yt]
This isn't a hugbox thread; if he wants to say his piece he can say his piece.
Using Michael Bay as an example of how movies should be made?
You've just made the weakest argument in the history of TBBS.
It's literally impossible to take you seriously.
Kids these days.
Using Michael Bay as an example of how movies should be made?
You've just made the weakest argument in the history of TBBS.
It's literally impossible to take you seriously.
Kids these days.
It's not an automatically invalid point, as Bay is absolutely a master of the technical aspects of filmmaking. It's just that he picks scripts that suck out loud.
But I'll still engage with this against my better judgment -- show me a sequence Joss Whedon has directed that has the kind of tension and impending dread as the shower room ambush from The Rock.
Never bothered with The Rock, but the implied rape scene in Firefly's "Objects in Space" was a truly tense and dramatic moment. The cool detatchment of from Jubal Early when he describes what he going to do to Kaylee was chilling and Kaylee's pure terror were palpable. Hell, that entire episode is amazing.
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cin·e·mat·ic
ˌsinəˈmadik/
adjective
of or relating to motion pictures.
having qualities characteristic of motion pictures.
It clearly fits under the first definition and the second one is arguably per se true when the first definition is met.
that definition is technically correct, but it's also a doorway into being blissfully obstinate. Paranormal Activity 4 might be considered cinematic because it's a movie.. but that doesn't mean that people having that conversation about what counts as cinematic would necessarily PA4 or even the Love Guru or a hundred other films into such a conversation simply because they are movies. You're splitting hairs in an effort to avoid the true meaning of points I'm making.
I'm probably older than you think.
Very few action films have action scenes as well composed as films like The Abyss, which I saw in theaters.
I've noticed that in a lot of your criticisms of films (not just Marvel) that you seem to equate explaining every single thing down to the most minute detail with good directing or "real filmmaking" (whoever decides that arbitrary line). It's not enough for the audience to just put two-and-two together that Cap hopped on his own motorcycle, you want the director to pander to the lowest common denominator and show it, because somehow a scene of Cap starting a motorcycle with no one else around "builds tension."
The problem though is that kind of thinking leads to completely superfluous scenes like the Vader's shuttle scene from The Empire Strikes Back Special Edition. Back in the dark times before the Special Editions, we all pondered the mystery of what sort of Sith wizardry Vader must have used to magically get from Cloud City back to his Star Destroyer, because we completely lacked the imagination necessary to figure that he just took a shuttle back. Thankfully George Lucas ended our suffering by showing in detail Vader requesting his shuttle, walking to his shuttle, his shuttle flying into space, his shuttle approaching the Executor, his shuttle docking, and Vader disembarking the shuttle.
Thankfully nothing else was going on during that time like Luke hanging from Cloud City (we needed the extra tension of Vader boarding his shuttle), or John Williams doing some sweeping dramatic musical piece that got disrupted. Also, it's fortunate that all that "tension building" and pointless exposition didn't do anything stupid like badly redubbing Vader's lines for no reason or having Vader meet the same Moff who greeted him on the Death Star in RotJ because they just reused an existing scene.
(click to enlarge)
Sources: http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-two.html
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vader_leaving_Cloud_City.png
Okay, so on to the next thing...
You seem incredulous at the idea of a car barrier in a parking garage that comes out of the ground, and think it's some crazy thing the "not real" filmmaker dreamt up to be kewl or something.
They're called anti-terrorist barriers, and they're very common at government buildings, especially since the first WTC bombing, Oklahoma City, and 9/11. They come out of the ground (and are anchored into it) because it provides greater resistance near the point of impact of the car or truck carrying the bomb or trying to enter the facility.
(click to enlarge)
Video of a truck impacting an anti-terrorist barrier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLU8DiCfXXI
So, now that I'm surely on the NSA terrorist watchlist for Googling about how secure the anti-terrorist barriers are at government parking garages and buildings
, let's move on to the next issue.How did Cap jump the barrier without a ramp? He lifted the front of the bike and then titled the bike forward at the right moment, like this guy who jumped his bike 13 feet without a ramp:
(Skip to the 1:00 minute mark)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9vf7p_longest-trials-motorcycle-jump-with_shortfilms
And that's just a normal dude who's not capable of dead lifting a literal ton of weight.
The biggest issue with your complaints, however, is that they don't actually have anything to do with creating tension, they're just minor procedural nitpicks (most of which aren't even accurate) that you've somehow convinced yourself are huge problems related to the artistry or lack thereof of the film. If anything, the opposite is true, and paying excessive attention to showing/explaining every detail because you think your audience is incapable of figuring things out for themselves saps dramatic tension away while simultaneously insulting your audience.
In the original theatrical version of The Empire Strikes Back, Vader just said "Bring my shuttle!" and that was that.
No, you're being pedantic with your definition of Cinematic in order to suggest that the name Marvel Cinematic Universe is misplaced. The name there is clearly differentiating from its print universe and that's it.
Even if I were an adventure seeking looky-loo, I imagine that if a giant armored guy and a giant green monster came hurtling out of the sky to smash into the pavement a few feet from where I was standing, I would...duck or something.
- First, I like the original "Bring my shuttle" moment better than the revised version: it tells the story without losing the flow of the scene. But nothing in the Marvel films should be compared to the Empre Strikes Back.. they just aren't in the same ballpark in writing, innovation and direction.
- It's as if they wanted to show Cap escaping but they didn't everything.. when it's an escape it's important that they show everything. The bit in the parking garage "Get out of the car! Right Now!" bit in T2 was one of the most impotant parts of an escape scene that was already quite long. It was a long scene (all the bits that comprised the escape from the facility) but each part was necessary and none of them caused the scene to drag. Back then, Cameron was a real filmmaker who knew how to develop tension, develope characters visually and tell a story, all at the same time. Here, Cap escapes from an elevator, Pierce orders a lock down, and the next shot is "our hero has his bike back" and he jumps a gate that is closing from below.. and yes I am aware that gates do close from below, but they don't look like the one in the film. The one in the film us a very bad CG gate (let's lower our standards for CGI because it's a Marvel film - and the gates looks horrible as CGI and I'd probably buy what tension the up-closing gates did bring to the scene if it looked at all real. The Quinjet that followed looked fake too.). But let's not go into the fact that Cap had to run back into a building that was in lockdown and get his bike and make his getaway. Someone might be able to get air off a bike as you demonstrated, but the audience has no idea how he did because they don't see it.. they just tolerate itnbecause he is the hero, and Marvel is pandering to the indiscriminating lowest common denominator that have decided that there doesnt need to be artistry anymore to filming an action scene, a chase, or an escape... so Marvel's directors hack their way through it.. sometimes coming coming close to directing a good one, but then copping out. Like, I have very problems to say about the Fury chase scene.. it was quite good, with an interesting comic book like twist.. but this film overall is not cinematic in the same way that some other action films are.
My friend is a good barometer too with regard to Winter Soldier, she had no expectations with this film other than the first left her cold.. she respected it but didn't really like it. She was into much of this film, but the third act left her feeling like they'd lost their grip on the story. Too much crappy CGI, with a of flat greys and too little actual imagination.
- It's as if they wanted to show Cap escaping but they didn't everything.. when it's an escape it's important that they show everything. The bit in the parking garage "Get out of the car! Right Now!" bit in T2 was one of the most impotant parts of an escape scene that was already quite long. It was a long scene (all the bits that comprised the escape from the facility) but each part was necessary and none of them caused the scene to drag. Back then, Cameron was a real filmmaker who knew how to develop tension, develope characters visually and tell a story, all at the same time. Here, Cap escapes from an elevator, Pierce orders a lock down, and the next shot is "our hero has his bike back" and he jumps a gate that is closing from below.. and yes I am aware that gates do close from below, but they don't look like the one in the film. The one in the film us a very bad CG gate (let's lower our standards for CGI because it's a Marvel film - and the gates looks horrible as CGI and I'd probably buy what tension the up-closing gates did bring to the scene if it looked at all real. The Quinjet that followed looked fake too.). But let's not go into the fact that Cap had to run back into a building that was in lockdown and get his bike and make his getaway. Someone might be able to get air off a bike as you demonstrated, but the audience has no idea how he did because they don't see it.. they just tolerate itnbecause he is the hero, and Marvel is pandering to the indiscriminating lowest common denominator that have decided that there doesnt need to be artistry anymore to filming an action scene, a chase, or an escape... so Marvel's directors hack their way through it.. sometimes coming coming close to directing a good one, but then copping out. Like, I have very problems to say about the Fury chase scene.. it was quite good, with an interesting comic book like twist.. but this film overall is not cinematic in the same way that some other action films are.
My friend is a good barometer too with regard to Winter Soldier, she had no expectations with this film other than the first left her cold.. she respected it but didn't really like it. She was into much of this film, but the third act left her feeling like they'd lost their grip on the story. Too much crappy CGI, with a of flat greys and too little actual imagination.
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