TMP Myths Debunked via Return to Tomorrow and Beyond

[pfontaine2]

Yes, the cloth covered panels lent a warmth to the crew quarters level. What I found most interesting is that the elevator doors are painted red, like on the original series.

My fantasy explanation for the red elevator doors on that level is that some of the original elevator doors from the original Enterprise were kept as tribute to the original ship (just like the patch of dark ceiling in Grand Central Terminal that was purposely kept untouched during the most recent cleaning/renovation to remind everyone just how dirty the ceiling was before it was cleaned).

I kind of wished the red doors had been kept on the bridge as well but it certainly wouldn't have jived with the monochromatic bridge redesign.

 

[mos6507]

There are a few things Gene takes credit for which, if you believe his account, helps redeem the cynical image that a lot of old-timer Trek fans now have of him as a self-promoter and taking credit for other people's work.

First off, he says the studio did everything in its power to prevent the original cast from coming back. By this point they were less than 10 years from TOS leaving the screen, and yet Paramount effectively wanted a TNG-like reboot, or at best "kill off" principals in order to pass-the-torch. Despite bad scripts he may have been responsible for (like the God Thing) a lot of the delays seem to revolve around Gene fighting that battle to preserve the original crew and to frame the story in a way that would be recognizable to Trek fans as Trek-like rather than just Trek in name only.

Gene didn't seem to want to fight for the cast purely for continuity's sake, either. He talks about how the studios seemed prejudiced against "TV" actors. He also gave props to Shatner's acting ability.

He also claims to have made key changes to the story, like the shift of the probe from a wholly separate and alien-like android to the recreation of Ilia.

In the segment that talks about Nimoy returning, Gene talks about how the story kind of found its heart through that, although he bemoans how muted it was in the final product. By V'Ger acting like a mirror to Spock, he could realize that his pursuit of logic wasn't the meaning of life. That particular theme is, IMHO, the film's saving grace.

 

[Khan 2.0]

sounds like the studio wanted to kill off TOS cast in the opening and then had Paul Newman and Robert redford taking charge of the Enterprise lol

 

[Maurice]

Dunno about the studio, but I believe Phil Kaufman said he wanted to lose most of the TV cast and get some better actors. He liked Nimoy a lot, though.

BTW, since the book talks about the transition from Star Trek (Phase) II to TMP. check out the series corridors under construction (from Richard Taylor's website).

CLICK TO EMBIGGEN​

I dig the ceiling beams, which match those seen in some of Mike Minor's concept sketches for other rooms.

 

[Joe_Atari]

BTW, since the book talks about the transition from Star Trek (Phase) II to TMP. check out the series corridors under construction (from Richard Taylor's website).

CLICK TO EMBIGGEN​

I dig the ceiling beams, which match those seen in some of Mike Minor's concept sketches for other rooms.

Thanks for posting that Maurice; that's the first photo I've seen of a PII corridor anywhere! So what are we looking at? Sickbay doors on the right and Kirk's quarters on the left?

I knew Taylor had a number of PII photos (collected when his team was evaluating the PII assets for TMP use); he's shown all of these publicly (minus the corridor) in the past. But how strange is it that the photos (of Mike Minor designs he hated and ordered scrapped) appear without context on his website next to some of his own designs?

BTW, fans of the film Looker should check out Taylor's demo reel here:

http://richardtaylordesign.com/feature-films/looker/

The raw footage for the Susan Dey mapping sequence is (ahem) a bit more revealing than what ended up in the film.

 

[pfontaine2]

Wow...thank you for posting that photograph and pointing out Richard Taylor's website. As strange as this may sound, I can't tell you how much I wanted to know what the corridors of the Phase II Enterprise would have looked like. Seriously, I've wasted valuable time wondering about this very set!

It was inconceivable to me that the corridors would have looked like they did in TMP and instead would have continued the look of the original series.

Much like the Cinefantastique article that never made it to print (but now has in the form of this fantastic book), I've pondered the true appearance of the Phase II Enterprise corridors for a very long time!

Having said this, I do like what they did with the corridors during TNG but never really cared for them in the movies.

Thanks again for posting this!
Pierre

 

[Maurice]

I was chatting with Rick Sternbach earlier and he says the corridors still looked like this when he interviewed for the show/movie, but it quickly changed once Joe Jennings left to do Shogun and Harold Michaelson came on board. He also confirmed that the wall panels were "curved aluminum" and not painted.

 

[Trimm]

What's interesting to me is that Shane Johnson has said in interviews that the TMP corridors were built inside the framework of those Phase 2 corridors, and that the Phase 2 elements remained underneath. But looking at that picture, how on Earth could that be possible?

 

[Maurice]

What's interesting to me is that Shane Johnson has said in interviews that the TMP corridors were built inside the framework of those Phase 2 corridors, and that the Phase 2 elements remained underneath. But looking at that picture, how on Earth could that be possible?

I think they just removed the overhead beams and stuck the new walls in between.

Based on the doors, yeah, I think the ones on the left are, R to L
Ward
Dr. Office
Door to area behind transporter room (lab set on TNG)

On the left side that door would go into where Kirk's quarters ended up, but might've just been a door to nowhere, as several of them were.

The radial corridor past the transporter room would be just around the bend.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

sounds like the studio wanted to kill off TOS cast in the opening and then had Paul Newman and Robert redford taking charge of the Enterprise lol

Interestingly, this was more or less what Paramount ended up doing in the Tom Cruise Mission: Impossible movies in the 90s (The first one was supposed to open with the TV cast getting killed off, but the actors refused to reprise their roles, so we ended up with Emilio Estevez & company instead).

 

[Khan 2.0]

Interestingly, this was more or less what Paramount ended up doing in the Tom Cruise Mission: Impossible movies in the 90s (The first one was supposed to open with the TV cast getting killed off, but the actors refused to reprise their roles, so we ended up with Emilio Estevez & company instead).

Yes exactly. Jim Phelps suddenly turning murderous traitor would be like if Kirk had done the same in TMP. Ridiculous. No wonder Graves didn't do it. All they needed to have done was had Phelps (Graves) as the MI boss and gets incapacitated or killed at the start (as happened) then Cruise takes over for the movie, maybe even give some of the others( Nimoy, Landau etc) cameos at various points as retired MI members

 

[Christopher]

Interestingly, this was more or less what Paramount ended up doing in the Tom Cruise Mission: Impossible movies in the 90s (The first one was supposed to open with the TV cast getting killed off, but the actors refused to reprise their roles, so we ended up with Emilio Estevez & company instead).

Which TV cast? Original series or '88 revival? And if it was original series, which cast members? They went through a ton of team changes.

 

[FormerLurker]

I live by the theory that there are two guys in the IMF named Jim Phelps, that are unrelated. One is the traitor, the other an older, wiser probably now retired former team leader with a stellar record and much accolades.

 

[Christopher]

I live by the theory that there are two guys in the IMF named Jim Phelps, that are unrelated. One is the traitor, the other an older, wiser probably now retired former team leader with a stellar record and much accolades.

There's a simpler explanation, when you consider how routine impersonations and disguises are in the M:I world. I assume movie Phelps is simply an impostor. And I like to think that the mission Ethan gets at the end of the first movie is the rescue of the real Jim Phelps from wherever he's been held in captivity for the previous few years.

Really, though, there's nothing to confirm that the M:I movies are in the same universe as the shows. They could be treated simply as a reboot. Anyway, the first two movies were so weak, and so much their own separate entities, that I consider them failed "pilots" for a series that didn't really kick in until the third movie.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Interestingly, this was more or less what Paramount ended up doing in the Tom Cruise Mission: Impossible movies in the 90s (The first one was supposed to open with the TV cast getting killed off, but the actors refused to reprise their roles, so we ended up with Emilio Estevez & company instead).

Which TV cast? Original series or '88 revival? And if it was original series, which cast members? They went through a ton of team changes.

From my memory of the interviews at the time, it was the cast of the second/third seasons of the original — the cast often associated with M:I in pop culture and the public consciousness.

 

[Christopher]

^Weird. Why go to the trouble of bringing back the "classic" team if the intent was just to kill them off in the opening sequence? That would've been even more alienating to the fans than what we got.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

From my memory of the interviews at the time, it was the cast of the second/third seasons of the original — the cast often associated with M:I in pop culture and the public consciousness.

Yeah, I haven't ever read the M:I script, but that was my understanding, too. I think I remember Greg Morris complaining about it in Starlog.

^Weird. Why go to the trouble of bringing back the "classic" team if the intent was just to kill them off in the opening sequence? That would've been even more alienating to the fans than what we got.

Well, obviously faithfulness and respect for the original series was pretty far from the filmmakers' minds.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

BTW, sorry for the thread drift, but this essay has a neat rationale for how the Jim Phelps plot twist could've occurred. The author uses a lot of M:I continuity to support his argument:

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Phelps.pdf

 

[Maurice]

Good morning Mr. Phelps. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to discuss the book Return to Tomorrow and TMP related matters. Beware of of enemy agents who look like Tom Cruise. This message will self destruct in five seconds.

 

[Christopher]

BTW, sorry for the thread drift, but this essay has a neat rationale for how the Jim Phelps plot twist could've occurred. The author uses a lot of M:I continuity to support his argument:

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Phelps.pdf

Wow. That's a fascinating and plausible, if dark, analysis.