If Spock and Scotty are Captains.....

[urbandefault]

There is plenty of evidence in the films to suggest that they were in fact moving on with their careers and off the Enterprise. In TWOK, Chekov is XO on Reliant, and Kirk's line about having Sulu "at the helm for three weeks" suggests that the Ent is not his regular posting. Having everyone on the Ent-A in TFF is easily explained by all of their careers suffering some fallout from the events of TSFS. In TUC, Uhura references chairing a seminar at the Academy, McCoy wonders if they are being thrown a retirement party etc. Sulu has been in command of Excelsior for a number of years at that point also.

The only clear time in the films that all of our principals seemed to be permanently assigned to the Enterprise are in TMP, TFF, and TUC. TUC is clearly stated to be the last mission for that group on the ship.

I would suggest that McCoy's "If we're all here, where's Sulu?" when Sulu's been gone for three years (!) would suggest that most of the crew is no longer regularly assigned to the Enterprise in TUC, and have not been for some time.

Also that McCoy never checks facebook.

I've suggested this in the past (not the Facebook part. )

The fact that McCoy asked where Sulu was doesn't mean that he didn't know that Sulu had a command. He wondered why, if the rest of them were present, why not Sulu?

The crew were scheduled to "stand down in three months." Who knows how long the ship had been back in spacedock with the crew on leave or interim assignments, waiting for their well-deserved retirement?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

David Gerrold's "Encounter at Farpoint" novelization sheds some interesting light on this subject, with McCoy's internal monologue claiming that he only accepted promotion to the rank of Admiral so that he could "commandeer a shuttlecraft whenever he wanted," or words to that effect.

That sounds very McCoy to me. But then, Gerrold always had a great handle on the TOS characters.

I actually uncovered a used copy of Gerrold's Encounter at Farpoint novelization while cleaning my apartment the other day. Maybe I should finally read the whole thing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Uhura was apparently splitting time between the Academy and Starfleet Intelligence

No, the movies make no mention of this.

yep. Only the Academy was mentioned.

KIRK: What are we doing here?
McCOY: Maybe they're throwing us a retirement party.
SCOTT: That suits me. I've just bought a boat.
UHURA: This had better be good. I'm supposed to be chairing a seminar at the Academy.
CHEKOV: Isn't this just for top brass?
KIRK: If we're all here, where's Sulu?
McCoy: Captain Sulu. ...On assignment.

And it's Kirk who asks about Sulu. ( unless the transcript is wrong)

So...

Scotty is planning retirement.

Uhura is giving seminars.

Sulu is on assignment. (cataloging "gaseous anomalies")

Chekov isn't top brass.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I don' think manning a tactical station requires being in the chain of command. Bashir was a super genius after all, but did he receive any command training?

He definitely went to the Academy, so it's likely he received at some instruction in general ship operations. Said instruction may not have qualified him for command, but it would have enabled him to handle basic bridge duties--otherwise, there's no way he'd been able to work at tactical or help pilot a shuttlecraft (as he's seen doing more than once).

And it's Kirk who asks about Sulu. ( unless the transcript is wrong)

The transcript is wrong. It's definitely McCoy who asks about Sulu, and Kirk who notes that Sulu's been promoted before asking where Spock is.


--Sran

 

[BillJ]

Uhura was apparently splitting time between the Academy and Starfleet Intelligence

No, the movies make no mention of this.

yep. Only the Academy was mentioned.

KIRK: What are we doing here?
McCOY: Maybe they're throwing us a retirement party.
SCOTT: That suits me. I've just bought a boat.
UHURA: This had better be good. I'm supposed to be chairing a seminar at the Academy.
CHEKOV: Isn't this just for top brass?
KIRK: If we're all here, where's Sulu?
McCoy: Captain Sulu. ...On assignment.

And it's Kirk who asks about Sulu. ( unless the transcript is wrong)

So...

Scotty is planning retirement.

Uhura is giving seminars.

Sulu is on assignment. (cataloging "gaseous anomalies")

Chekov isn't top brass.

I think they have all of Kirk and McCoy's lines reversed there. I know for sure the last two lines are reversed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought as much, but was too lazy to dig out the DVD.

 

[cardinal biggles]

It's just the last two lines where the characters are reversed.

 

[sonak]

There is plenty of evidence in the films to suggest that they were in fact moving on with their careers and off the Enterprise. In TWOK, Chekov is XO on Reliant, and Kirk's line about having Sulu "at the helm for three weeks" suggests that the Ent is not his regular posting. Having everyone on the Ent-A in TFF is easily explained by all of their careers suffering some fallout from the events of TSFS. In TUC, Uhura references chairing a seminar at the Academy, McCoy wonders if they are being thrown a retirement party etc. Sulu has been in command of Excelsior for a number of years at that point also.

The only clear time in the films that all of our principals seemed to be permanently assigned to the Enterprise are in TMP, TFF, and TUC. TUC is clearly stated to be the last mission for that group on the ship.

Most of that, apart from the Chekov stuff, is extrapolation and speculation from a few lines. By TWOK, a long time was supposed to have passed after TMP, and especially since the original five-year mission. Yet Sulu, Uhura, and Scotty are still hanging around what has become a training vessel, whether it's a short-term break or not. And TVH explicitly states that no other officer is punished except Kirk, yet the senior staff are all on the Enterprise-A at the start of TFF, most in the same actual job they had two decades before. TUC can indeed be explained by having it be a "last hurrah" thing, but not TFF.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And TVH explicitly states that no other officer is punished except Kirk, yet the senior staff are all on the Enterprise-A at the start of TFF, most in the same actual job they had two decades before. TUC can indeed be explained by having it be a "last hurrah" thing, but not TFF.

Yeah, but even if Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov weren't formally punished or reprimanded, do you think that there'd be many captains in the fleet who'd look at them and say, "Hey, that officer who just committed mutiny, sabotaged and destroyed a couple of starships, and assaulted fellow officers -- THAT'S my new first officer"?

Since TFF is generally considered to take place not long after TVH, serving under Kirk again might've been the best option that most of the crew had. Obviously, they'd gotten past any lingering stigma by the time TUC rolled around.

 

[cardinal biggles]

And as for Sulu, Uhura & Scotty still "hanging around," it's possible they were instructors at the Academy. Certainly if Admiral Kirk is supposed to be the commandant of Starfleet Academy, he'd like to have his trusted subordinates from the FYM teaching and mentoring the next generation (no pun) of line officers.

 

[Trimm]

Most of that, apart from the Chekov stuff, is extrapolation and speculation from a few lines. By TWOK, a long time was supposed to have passed after TMP, and especially since the original five-year mission. Yet Sulu, Uhura, and Scotty are still hanging around what has become a training vessel, whether it's a short-term break or not. And TVH explicitly states that no other officer is punished except Kirk, yet the senior staff are all on the Enterprise-A at the start of TFF, most in the same actual job they had two decades before. TUC can indeed be explained by having it be a "last hurrah" thing, but not TFF.

Extrapolation is one of the things you have to do when interpreting a work of fiction. TWOK and TUC both drop plenty of hints that our heroes aren't permanantly entrenched aboard the Enterprise over the 20 years that the film series covers. We see Chekov having moved onto Reliant and Sulu to Excelsior. I will again point out that there is a 12 year gap between TMP and TWOK, and a 6 year gap between TFF and TUC. That's 18 out of 20 of the movie years that we never see. Who knows what any of these characters were up to during all that time?

We should also consider that Starfleet has been shown more than once to not be totally organized along a strict military line. What cause is there for us to assume that any of our heroes absolutely HAD to move on from the Enterprise? Maybe Uhura and Sulu were just as happy as Spock to be teachers, and that's why they were on the "little training cruise" in TWOK?

 

[Ithekro]

There was a line by McCoy in the simulator room asking Admiral Kirk if it wouldn't be easier just to put an experianced crew back aboard the ship. Kirk's response was something about exploration being the game of the young. Uhura questions that as Kirk leaves.

Would this suggest that the training crew was not just using Enterprise as a training cruiser, but that they were orginally to be assigned to Enterprise as an active starship once they graduated? I wonder what was going on that Starfleet was going to put a fresh crew on Enterprise rather than just transfering experiance people to her from other commands. Surely getting assigned to Enterprise from some smaller ship would be a good thing. Unless she's considered the old rust bucket of the fleet by then. An assignment of pride, but also a lot of work to keep her running (or of like how the carrier USS Enterprise (CVN-65) ended up after 50 years of service. If anything broke, the crew had to make the parts themselves. Not only because she was the only ship of her class, but also most of the equipment she used hadn't been made for several decades, aside freom any computers she's been fitted with over the last decade or two of service).

 

[sonak]

Most of that, apart from the Chekov stuff, is extrapolation and speculation from a few lines. By TWOK, a long time was supposed to have passed after TMP, and especially since the original five-year mission. Yet Sulu, Uhura, and Scotty are still hanging around what has become a training vessel, whether it's a short-term break or not. And TVH explicitly states that no other officer is punished except Kirk, yet the senior staff are all on the Enterprise-A at the start of TFF, most in the same actual job they had two decades before. TUC can indeed be explained by having it be a "last hurrah" thing, but not TFF.

Extrapolation is one of the things you have to do when interpreting a work of fiction. TWOK and TUC both drop plenty of hints that our heroes aren't permanantly entrenched aboard the Enterprise over the 20 years that the film series covers. We see Chekov having moved onto Reliant and Sulu to Excelsior. I will again point out that there is a 12 year gap between TMP and TWOK, and a 6 year gap between TFF and TUC. That's 18 out of 20 of the movie years that we never see. Who knows what any of these characters were up to during all that time?

We should also consider that Starfleet has been shown more than once to not be totally organized along a strict military line. What cause is there for us to assume that any of our heroes absolutely HAD to move on from the Enterprise? Maybe Uhura and Sulu were just as happy as Spock to be teachers, and that's why they were on the "little training cruise" in TWOK?

Yeah, I can buy the instructor stuff for TWOK because it's part of the premise that the Enterprise has become a training vessel, so that's not much of a stretch. It's TFF that makes it hard to rationalize, unless you go the whole "they were unofficially punished" route, which considering that they had JUST SAVED THE EARTH in TVH doesn't make much sense. They were heroes at the end of TVH, not outcasts. I suppose you could do the Riker after BOBW thing and just say they were where they were happy, but it seems weird that they'd want to hang around under the same boss, and in the same type of posting as they had been for two decades by that point. It was a good move by TUC to have Sulu be a captain away from the Enterprise.

 

[Ithekro]

Interestingly enough, in TVH and after Commander Chekov is reassigned to Navigation, yet he's been Security/Weapons Officer (or XO on another starship) since TMP. Briefly taking on the role of science officer for Enterprise's voyage back to Earth after the death of Captain Spock and loss of USS Reliant.

 

[BillJ]

Interestingly enough, in TVH and after Commander Chekov is reassigned to Navigation, yet he's been Security/Weapons Officer (or XO on another starship) since TMP. Briefly taking on the role of science officer for Enterprise's voyage back to Earth after the death of Captain Spock and loss of USS Reliant.

I'm honestly not sure what role Chekov played in the later movies. I think they just sat him at the navigation console because that is where people expected him to be.

 

[Ithekro]

He'd also be in frame easier than the weapons alcove.

 

[Trimm]

Yeah, I can buy the instructor stuff for TWOK because it's part of the premise that the Enterprise has become a training vessel, so that's not much of a stretch. It's TFF that makes it hard to rationalize, unless you go the whole "they were unofficially punished" route, which considering that they had JUST SAVED THE EARTH in TVH doesn't make much sense. They were heroes at the end of TVH, not outcasts. I suppose you could do the Riker after BOBW thing and just say they were where they were happy, but it seems weird that they'd want to hang around under the same boss, and in the same type of posting as they had been for two decades by that point. It was a good move by TUC to have Sulu be a captain away from the Enterprise.

Is it such a stretch to assume that, while they had saved the Earth, our intrepid heroes wouldn't suffer some small career fallout from the litany of offenses they committed in TSFS? Surely its at least plausible that going so far off the reservation would at least have some temporary effects on these people's career advancement, regardless of the outcome? What CO of a starship would want Chekov or Sulu as an XO, given that they had just demonstrated a real ability to engage in a conspiracy, assault their fellow officers, ignore a direct order from a superior, steal an entire starship and then blow it up?

 

[cardinal biggles]

The TFF/TUC bridge lacked the distinctive weapons & defense alcove of the TMP bridge, so Chekov's return to his old navigation station was probably more about "where do we put him so we can see him?" than "what's this guy's career trajectory?"

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Extrapolation is one of the things you have to do when interpreting a work of fiction. [...] I will again point out that there is a 12 year gap between TMP and TWOK, and a 6 year gap between TFF and TUC.

And I would point out that those figures are themselves extrapolations, since we never hear the exact years those movies take place in.

 

[Trimm]

Extrapolation is one of the things you have to do when interpreting a work of fiction. [...] I will again point out that there is a 12 year gap between TMP and TWOK, and a 6 year gap between TFF and TUC.

And I would point out that those figures are themselves extrapolations, since we never hear the exact years those movies take place in.

I mean, if you want to treat the ST: Encyclopedia dates as such, ok. But even at that, we know that TMP takes place roughly in 2272-73, given Kirk's two and a half years as an Admiral and the 2270 date for the end of the five year mission from Voyager. And TWOK can take place no earlier than 2283, from the date on the Romulan Ale bottle. As to the gap between TFF and TUC, that has to be at least 3 years because that's how long Sulu had command of Excelsior So the point still stands that there are at least 12 to 13 years, minimum, of these people's lives and careers that we never see.