"Agent Carter" season one discussion and spoilers

[kitik]

* At least I'm aasuming that these are scenes from the rest of the season and not just next week as neither Dugan nor Stark are listed as guest stars next week.

Yeah, when they showed that tonight, I assumed it had to be for the whole season.

Heck, there are only 6 episodes left.


Thumbs up for the show, I'll gladly watch the rest of the episodes, and hope for a second season. Peggy and Jarvis are great, and I'm hoping that Chief Dooley steals a few scenes in the future. He was pretty entertaining. He plays a good Chief.

Also somewhat interesting that Jarvis's wife is offscreen. I wonder if we'll see her before the end of the show and it'll turn out to be a big reveal. (Or maybe we'll see her next week, and that's just the way the first two epsiodes were filmed and edited.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

1. Jarvis' wife is probably a dude in a dress. J. Edgar Hoover had that sort of arrangement going on in real life in exactly the same era so it's not unimaginable.

2. Jarvis' wife is probably dead. Shades of Norman Bates? Or just a little denial so that he can survive her absence.

3. Jarvis' Wife is probably Stark. Nothing Romantic, he's just hiding in Jarvis' house while paying many persons to lay false trails across the Earth.

4.Jarvis' wife is probably Ultron. In the comics in the early 70s, Ultron hypnotized Jarvis into being the arch villain The Crimson Cowl and rout the Avengers to a standstill. Which would imply that the upcoming Age of Ultron movie IS about Time travel, since in the comics Age of Ultron was a massive story about Ultron and Time travel.

5. Jarvis' wife is probably a girlsized doll made out of tightly bound fresh sandwich meat.

 

[Trekker4747]

Could you give an example?

Well, let's see, on the hyperbole front, you said:

That the show completely wasted your time.

So.... the show MADE you sit there and watch it?

It was stupid, insulting, and infuriating...

Really? More so than the bulk of reality TV or most of Fox's Sunday night cartoons? Sure, there's levels of "stupid, insulting and infuriating" but calling this show that seems like a bit of a stretch. (But, I say that without having watched it yet. But even if the show is bad I doubt it's going to insult or infuriate me.)

I was so pissed I missed the damn Ant-Man trailer, because I just spent every commercial break contemplating throwing a rock through my TV.

Unless you seriously considered hurling rocks at [your] TV then this is the very definition of hyperbole.

Easily the worst two hours of television I've seen in a long time, and the worst comic book universe related show of the last few years (and this is from someone who also hates Gotham and fell asleep with Constantine, both shows that are still about 1000x better than these two episodes of AC).

I sort of doubt you haven't seen a worse 2-hours of programming in recent history. Among comic-book related shows? Perhaps. But this still seems like a bit of hyperbole unless you're really able to quantify your hate for a show into a specific measure to the point where you can determine how much more you hate another show in factors of that measure.

Again. Hyperbole.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Thumbs up.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you'd pronounce it "Hyper-Bole" instead of how you are supposed to, it sounds like some sort of futuristic motorized version of football.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

At this point, I'm only watching on the slight chance it connects to the good Marvel show, AoS. Well, that and the (probably unfulfilled) hope of seeing the grisly murder of everyone on the show not named Carter, Stark or Jarvis.

Do yourself a favor and don't watch it. It doesn't sound like you'll enjoy the rest of it either. And, certainly, those who like it don't want the changes you do.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sexism in the 1940s.

The language did not exist yet for men not to be continuingly sexist.

In some ways, it still doesn't.

Most of the men in this episode of Agent Carter thought they were being nice and fair, and would be amazed to discover that they were intolerant, insulting, condescending or demeaning in anyway.

Weird, huh?
...

This is what I don't understand.

If factories were paying women half what they were paying men, why the hell then were they firing women to rehire returned servicemen at twice female rates?

That's a moronic business model.

 

[Christopher]

If there was one area I think it can improve on is the humor. That's not to say it's bad, the bit where she posed as the health inspector was a riot. I just think some of the "witty" dialog wasn't so witty.

It worked for me, aside from the caricaturing of "Betty Carver." Maybe it's because it was '40s humor rather than modern humor -- it helps if you're in a nostalgic state of mind.

It would be okay if it was a serious show, but it seemed to me like they want to parallel Shield in tone.

Well, every Marvel Cinematic Universe production to date has had a mix of humor and drama. That was the tone set by the original Iron Man, and it's guided everything since.

I know that's not a fair comparison since Shield has a Whedon working for them, but I still think they can do a little better.

The series' showrunners, Michelle Fazekas and Tara Butters, were consulting producers on Whedon's Dollhouse -- where they worked side by side with AoS's showrunners Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen (and actually outranked them on that staff). So it's all still in the same extended family, so to speak.

I'm curious though, is there a lot of time travel in Marvel stories? Because, whether this gets turned into a series or not, it's totally going to happen.

In the comics, there's a ton of it. There hasn't been any in the MCU yet, though; the closest we've come is Steve Rogers's long sleep in the ice.

The impression that I got from The Winter Soldier is that the SSR and S.H.I.E.L.D. are and were the same agency, just under different names and with different budgets and allocations of resources.

Kinda like how the OSS became the CIA, I guess. Not exactly the same agency, but one evolved into the other and inherited some of its assets and organization. Although it sounds like the transition from SSR to SHIELD was a bit more direct.

Also somewhat interesting that Jarvis's wife is offscreen. I wonder if we'll see her before the end of the show and it'll turn out to be a big reveal. (Or maybe we'll see her next week, and that's just the way the first two epsiodes were filmed and edited.)

Or maybe she's just part of the long tradition of TV characters who are heard but never seen, like Carleton the Doorman on Rhoda.

 

[Admiral2]

Sexism in the 1940s.

The language did not exist yet for men not to be continuingly sexist.

In some ways, it still doesn't.

Most of the men in this episode of Agent Carter thought they were being nice and fair, and would be amazed to discover that they were intolerant, insulting, condescending or demeaning in anyway.

Weird, huh?
...

This is what I don't understand.

If factories were paying women half what they were paying men, why the hell then were they firing women to rehire returned servicemen at twice female rates?

That's a moronic business model.

You pretty much already answered your own question.

It wasn't meant to be good business. It was meant to make sure men coming back from duty could be proper breadwinners again and women went back home and returned to being good girlfriends and housewives. And the factory owners had every reason to believe this is what everybody in America wanted. There was no Gloria Steinem or Helen Gurley Brown to tell 'em different.

As for the episode and characters, I liked them all, even the sexist a-holes, cause without them you won't get to see how awesome Agent Carter can really be in such a situation. She'll do fine, with or without the male acknowledgement.

 

[DWF]

Hayley Atwell was exceptional, I loved the use of the USO song for the radio show. I think they could've done without the torture scene though but you can see how Hydra would later take over SHIELD, the SSR here did feel like a proto-SHIELD organization. And yes Peggy's boss among others were sexist butthat only made her look that much smarter and stronger.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Loved the last line in the Ant-Man teaser!

Darn right! Who coined the name "Ant-Man", anyway? (Same genius who coined "Absorbing Man", I trust? )

The same guy who coined the name "Iron Man", which is no better or worse.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I mean, we know Stark isn't a traitor, and that he lives at least until Tony is, what, 10-18 years old? So sometime in the 1970s or 80s? Since Tony didn't grow up the son of a traitor (that would have been brought up by this point), this whole Stark storyline is pointless.

By that standard, any storyline you give these characters is pointless, since the movies give us the broad outlines of their later lives.

Or how about this --the Stark plot is a way to have him guest star without spending much time on the show (and allow the actor to do movies)

 

[Christopher]

Getting back to CorporalClegg's time travel question, showrunner Michelle Fazekas says in this interview that "with Peggy Carter I don't want to do time travel stories." Generally they're planning to keep the show a bit more grounded, with some retro sci-fi tech but not going as far into fantasy as the modern-age MCU.

Here's another interview with executive producers/pilot writers Markus & McFeely.

 

[CorporalClegg]

With all due respect to her, that's not really her call. If someone at Marvel or Disney wants to get Sky and Carter together, then they're going to find a way to do it.

 

[kirk55555]

Could you give an example?

Well, let's see, on the hyperbole front, you said:

That the show completely wasted your time.

So.... the show MADE you sit there and watch it?

No, it promoted itself as a good show, but it wasn't, at all. I watched both episodes hoping for anything worthwhile, and outside of a few decent actors, it didn't have that. What, was I supposed to turn it off when the first 10 minutes annoyed me? I give shows a bit more time than that, generally speaking. So, I took a chance, and it completely wastewd my time.

It was stupid, insulting, and infuriating...

Really? More so than the bulk of reality TV or most of Fox's Sunday night cartoons? Sure, there's levels of "stupid, insulting and infuriating" but calling this show that seems like a bit of a stretch. (But, I say that without having watched it yet. But even if the show is bad I doubt it's going to insult or infuriate me.)

I'd watch any reality show or FOX cartoon and probably get more out of it than two hours of AC gave me. At least Family Guy and The Simpson's used to be funny, and the average reality show probably has less hateful characters than AC.

I was so pissed I missed the damn Ant-Man trailer, because I just spent every commercial break contemplating throwing a rock through my TV.

Unless you seriously considered hurling rocks at [your] TV then this is the very definition of hyperbole.

Well, those SSR scenes did lead me to dark thoughts...

Easily the worst two hours of television I've seen in a long time, and the worst comic book universe related show of the last few years (and this is from someone who also hates Gotham and fell asleep with Constantine, both shows that are still about 1000x better than these two episodes of AC).

I sort of doubt you haven't seen a worse 2-hours of programming in recent history. Among comic-book related shows? Perhaps. But this still seems like a bit of hyperbole unless you're really able to quantify your hate for a show into a specific measure to the point where you can determine how much more you hate another show in factors of that measure.

Again. Hyperbole.

Nope. I remember all the shows I've watched in recent history. Not one was as bad as AC. Not one was as insulting, or more poorly written. Its all my opinion, obviously, but for me AC is the worst show of the last few years. If it hadn't been connected to Marvel, I'd call it just mediocre, but in context of it being connected to the MCU it goes from mediocre c$%p to infuriatingly bad c%^p for me.

But, yeah, I'm letting it get to me now. I'm legitimately done with this topic. I pretty much have to keep watching it, but I'm done letting it bother me. Its a complete failure, but Marvel can't win them all.

 

[Marsden]

I liked it. I'm certainly watching the rest of them and might end up buy the dvds when they are out.


I was thinking that Howard before Congress was a neat parallel to Tony before Congress in IM2.

I like Jarvis. I was worried that Peggy really hurt him when he showed up like that.

The office they are in (SSR) really reminds me of where SHEILD is headquartered, is it a redressed set?
Is it possible it's the same building? I didn't think it was but they were going through SSR files in their building.

And SSR definately turned into SHIELD, they had SSR people listed on the monument at the SHIELD Academy in season 1, when one of them read Bucky Barnes.

 

[Avon]

it seemed so much more alive than agents of shield. which is a trudge most weeks.

 

[Trekker4747]

Sexism in the 1940s.

The language did not exist yet for men not to be continuingly sexist.

In some ways, it still doesn't.

Most of the men in this episode of Agent Carter thought they were being nice and fair, and would be amazed to discover that they were intolerant, insulting, condescending or demeaning in anyway.

Weird, huh?
...

This is what I don't understand.

If factories were paying women half what they were paying men, why the hell then were they firing women to rehire returned servicemen at twice female rates?

That's a moronic business model.

Women and machinery don't mix. Their ovaries get in the way or something.

 

[Marsden]

I just found there's no delete post button, only an edit.

Hmmm....

Nevermind

 

[Christopher]

With all due respect to her, that's not really her call. If someone at Marvel or Disney wants to get Sky and Carter together, then they're going to find a way to do it.

Of course it's her call, at least partly. They hired her and her partner to be responsible for making those calls. That's how this works. The people running Marvel Studios can't make every decision themselves, so they hire people they entrust to make those decisions for them. Of course other people are involved in the process, people who can potentially overrule them, but the showrunners are part of the decision-making, not mere hired hands. Their preferences do carry weight. It's a collaboration, not a dictatorship.

The office they are in (SSR) really reminds me of where SHEILD is headquartered, is it a redressed set?
Is it possible it's the same building? I didn't think it was but they were going through SSR files in their building.

The season 2 SHIELD headquarters, the Playground, is a former SSR bunker, which has made me wonder if both shows are using the same sets. However, they can't be the same facility in-universe, since Peggy's SSR offices are underneath Manhattan, and the Playground is out in the wilderness, somewhere remote enough that they can launch large aircraft from it undetected.