They actually debated over whether Shatner would revert to the TV styling or maintain his current styling. Seems as though he "felt more comfortable and confident" (or something like that) with his current style, and that's what stuck.
TMP Myths Debunked via Return to Tomorrow and Beyond
- Thread starter Maurice
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They actually debated over whether Shatner would revert to the TV styling or maintain his current styling. Seems as though he "felt more comfortable and confident" (or something like that) with his current style, and that's what stuck.
Not that long ago, I saw Shatner in a 1973 or 1974 episode of some show, and was startled to realize that his hairstyle was exactly the one Kirk had in TAS. I'd always assumed that Kirk's TAS design was a simplified version of his TOS appearance, but I guess they actually modeled it on how Shatner looked at the time.
Shh! Some people would probably jump off of a damned bridge if they found that out.
That's always been my understanding -- that the sequence was scrapped well before it was completed.
I wonder just how much they ended up actually shooting, in that case? Behind the scenes photos show they were filming at least parts of the entire sequence, so I wonder if Wise was referring to stopping midway through the time scheduled to shoot the "Memory Wall" sequence?
On a side note, I've always been curious if there was actual script pages written for Trumbull's version of Spock's spacewalk? The impression I've gotten from the various interviews is that Trumbull largely came up with it himself. It would be fascinating how it was first devised on the page.
Most likely. Rather than shooting in chronological order, they probably would've done all the shots from one angle first, then moved the camera to another position and done the shots from that angle, and so on.
I've long understood they never finished the live action shooting for the sequence, but I'd seen conflicting details on how much of the scene had been shot.
There's a note elsewhere in the book about some of the problems with the Abel-designed V'ger sets, notably how it all looked the same no matter where you pointed the camera. There was no sense of "geography", as set designers sometimes say. I'll try to find the quote.
There's a note elsewhere in the book about some of the problems with the Abel-designed V'ger sets, notably how it all looked the same no matter where you pointed the camera. There was no sense of "geography", as set designers sometimes say. I'll try to find the quote.
Going by what we've seen in stills, here's what was (regular text) and probably wasn't (in bold) shot:
- Spock exiting the Enterprise, making his first report
- On the bridge, Kirk learns Spock has left
- Spock concentrates, then jets himself down to the trench (model/miniature work to be provided by Robert Abel)
- Kirk argues with McCoy in the airlock
- Kirk exits the Enterprise
- The original longer 'Ilia at the mirror' scene goes here
- Kirk follows Spock down to the trench (model/miniature work to be provided by Robert Abel)
- Kirk attacked by 'sensor swarm' (using wire footage shot in reverse)
- On the bridge, Sulu, Chekov and Uhura beg Spock to help Kirk (not sure if actually shot or not)
- Spock shoots the sensors off Kirk, the two have it out
- Kirk and Spock fly to the inner wall, watch the sensors fly in
- Spock catches a sensor, lets it go
- Kirk and Spock follow the sensors inside
- Kirk and Spock enter the Memory Wall chamber, fly to the newest memory crystals
- Spock tries to mind-meld with a 'Meditator Ball,' with predictable results
The biggest missing piece of the puzzle here, obviously, was the glittering flying sensors to be animated by Robert Abel. Without that, the other visual effects, music or even ADR by Shatner/Nimoy, the raw footage would have looked mighty poor indeed. Especially if the wirework flying Shatner/Nimoy around wasn't up to snuff.
- Spock exiting the Enterprise, making his first report
- On the bridge, Kirk learns Spock has left
- Spock concentrates, then jets himself down to the trench (model/miniature work to be provided by Robert Abel)
- Kirk argues with McCoy in the airlock
- Kirk exits the Enterprise
- The original longer 'Ilia at the mirror' scene goes here
- Kirk follows Spock down to the trench (model/miniature work to be provided by Robert Abel)
- Kirk attacked by 'sensor swarm' (using wire footage shot in reverse)
- On the bridge, Sulu, Chekov and Uhura beg Spock to help Kirk (not sure if actually shot or not)
- Spock shoots the sensors off Kirk, the two have it out
- Kirk and Spock fly to the inner wall, watch the sensors fly in
- Spock catches a sensor, lets it go
- Kirk and Spock follow the sensors inside
- Kirk and Spock enter the Memory Wall chamber, fly to the newest memory crystals
- Spock tries to mind-meld with a 'Meditator Ball,' with predictable results
The biggest missing piece of the puzzle here, obviously, was the glittering flying sensors to be animated by Robert Abel. Without that, the other visual effects, music or even ADR by Shatner/Nimoy, the raw footage would have looked mighty poor indeed. Especially if the wirework flying Shatner/Nimoy around wasn't up to snuff.
Never saw that anywhere. Unless it was jibes at Shatner's then-new-and-improved dark toupe.
However, I do recall Grace Lee Whitney telling an Australian convention in 1982 (and a friend saw her tears on premiere night at the Smithsonian premiere in '79) about Robert Wise seeing her in glamour makeup on Day 1 of filming and sending her back to Makeup to "wash that stuff off. I don't want Kirk's geisha girl on this ship".
According to Grace, Persis Khambatta's contract allowed her to have her promo shots airbrushed, and Nichelle and Majel were permitted some glamour makeup onscreen, but not Rand.
Bjo Trimble brought out Gene Roddenberry's personal copy - on a reel of film - to an Australian convention in the 80s (at my request, based on a reference to it in a Susan Sackett "Starlog" piece), and yes, a bootleg has been on Youtube at various points. It never got a TV airing, as far as I know, and it would be a great bonus feature for a future Blu-Ray.
Re Khan's chest in ST II, Susan Sackett once told me in person. "Oh it was real. I saw it!"
And Judson Scott said that, whenever the cameras weren't rolling, Ricardo would be on the floor doing pushups.
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I find it wonderfully stupid in how detailed it gets. If I'd started that blog, I'd probably just do a few entries before I got bored and abandoned it. You can't say that the author doesn't go the distance.
Anything taking place on the bridge would've already been shot by that point, I think, since they filmed the bridge scenes in sequence.
The bridge stuff was shot roughly in sequence.
The script went through so many revisions it's difficult to know what was or wasn't shot. I have drafts with the same date which have page changes. In one Spock and Kirk left the ship together and there was no Kirk as Raquel moment with V'ger "antibodies" at all.
Likely some version of that dialog on the bridge during the Kirk under attack bit was shot, but exactly which version, who knows? This is the version in the scripts I have:
(Interestingly, in scene 256A Ensign Lang is the Security Guard who enters Ilia's cabin with Kirk and Spock, and in scene 294A Chekov calls to a Chief Lang to send teams out to help Kirk. Clearly they're meant to be the same person. Lang became Ensign Perez in 256A in the finished film, but we have no way of knowing if the Chekov called for Lang or Perez or someone else in 294A as filmed.)
As to the spacewalk, the book says the reversed film of the "antibodies" connecting to Kirk looked bad, and the wires on the pyramid things were visible. It sounds like the whole thing was a colossal cluster fuck and we should be glad it was dumped.
The script went through so many revisions it's difficult to know what was or wasn't shot. I have drafts with the same date which have page changes. In one Spock and Kirk left the ship together and there was no Kirk as Raquel moment with V'ger "antibodies" at all.
Likely some version of that dialog on the bridge during the Kirk under attack bit was shot, but exactly which version, who knows? This is the version in the scripts I have:
(Interestingly, in scene 256A Ensign Lang is the Security Guard who enters Ilia's cabin with Kirk and Spock, and in scene 294A Chekov calls to a Chief Lang to send teams out to help Kirk. Clearly they're meant to be the same person. Lang became Ensign Perez in 256A in the finished film, but we have no way of knowing if the Chekov called for Lang or Perez or someone else in 294A as filmed.)
As to the spacewalk, the book says the reversed film of the "antibodies" connecting to Kirk looked bad, and the wires on the pyramid things were visible. It sounds like the whole thing was a colossal cluster fuck and we should be glad it was dumped.
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That corresponds to the version I've got in the latest page revisions of the scene, from October 26, 1978. Since the remainder of the scene was revised about a month later in the script, it could be likely that the scene changed or maybe not even shot. I think you could be right, Maurice. I'm currently looking into going to USC to peruse the Robert Wise papers held in their special collections. Hopefully, Wise kept his copy of the shooting script as a part of his files. That would be the most accurate indication of what was shot.
It is rather spellbinding that, for a final shooting script of 140 pages, I have over 200 pages worth of revisions and alternate versions. Some are little changes to dialogue or action, but there's THREE separate versions of the final act, as reported in the book. There was the initial version written for the shooting script. Then, by late September, an outline was put together for the final third act. Revisions indicate this new ending was written between October 2 and finished by November 5. This is the ending that can be read in the version of the script currently online. By late November, the ending as we know it in the final film was completed. I'm confused by the comments by Jon Povill in the book saying that December was a flurry of writing, as the copy of the shooting script I have only varies significantly in the special effects sequences, the meeting with Spock in the officer's lounge, and the Spock walk. Beyond that, the differences look to be ones made during the post-production process - ADR, editing, a one-day reshoot for the final scene on the bridge.
It is rather spellbinding that, for a final shooting script of 140 pages, I have over 200 pages worth of revisions and alternate versions. Some are little changes to dialogue or action, but there's THREE separate versions of the final act, as reported in the book. There was the initial version written for the shooting script. Then, by late September, an outline was put together for the final third act. Revisions indicate this new ending was written between October 2 and finished by November 5. This is the ending that can be read in the version of the script currently online. By late November, the ending as we know it in the final film was completed. I'm confused by the comments by Jon Povill in the book saying that December was a flurry of writing, as the copy of the shooting script I have only varies significantly in the special effects sequences, the meeting with Spock in the officer's lounge, and the Spock walk. Beyond that, the differences look to be ones made during the post-production process - ADR, editing, a one-day reshoot for the final scene on the bridge.
Quite frankly, the presentation of the footage (test footage?) on the Director's Cut DVD is rather creepy-looking...from what I recall it looked like empty space suits floating around...
Is this partly to blame for why Spock's and McCoy's jackets are swapped?
Yep.
One near disaster is related by Photographic Effect Cameraman Hoyt Yeaton, (p.460), wherein the Enterprise was at one point mounted on a model-articulator (an arm which can move the model around) and somehow the power got shut off to the motors providing the holding torque. The model, which was cantilevered out, began to drop to the floor. Grip Dan Wheeler saw it happening and "rushed over and grabbed it, and saved the Enterprise from dashing itself on the floor...without him the ship would have been scattered all over the floor."
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I can almost feel the fright of seeing that expensive, beautiful miniature nearly meeting a terribly destructive end.
Well, at least the "Spock catches a sensor, lets it go" scene must have been filmed. In the following picture you can see Spock holding a sensor bee in his hand.
Regarding the two scenes of Spock (first) and Kirk (after) going inside the trench with the miniature by Robert Abel, I'm curious: does anybody know exactly how they were going to be filmed? Blue screen? Back projection? All miniatures including the spacesuits?
P.S. As everybody already knows around here, the memory wall scene is my little obsession, so if anybody has any pictures not included here http://www.marcellorossi.info/Memory/Memory.html, I'd love to see them.
Maab
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