Justin Lin is directing Star Trek XIII

[Makarov]

All I'm saying is I don't think the knee jerk reaction here to comparing Trek with some of the more influential things is reasonable at all. Even with all the best classics - somebody at the time probably thought was not worthy of consideration either, and wouldn't have predicted the impact it had.

I think if one played "name that tune" with a group of average people in Times Square or along Navy Pier in Chicago, more would recognize the opening notes of the "Star Wars" theme than the fanfare from TOS. At best, it would be a wash.

Star Wars undoubtedly has a huge impact on modern culture and possibly is about to have more with the new movie. But you also bring up an interesting point here on people recognizing things...

Ask the average person to recite some Shakespeare, maybe they'll give you some "to be or not to be" at best. Start quoting some other line and they aren't going to know what you're talking about. You've got people who love Shakespeare and people who don't know anything. But even people who know nothing about Shakespeare are probably influenced by it in some way they don't even realize.

Is Star Trek any different? There's a lot of smart people into it out there doing things. And there's people who've never watched it, but may be impacted by decisions or inventions of people who have. But I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on it.

 

[Australis]

What is important to me about Star Trek is personal, but what is important to me may not make for a viable product.

This needs to be engraved somewhere.

 

[Set Harth]

We're talking about character motivations, here.

No, really?

I think those shuold always remain realistic no matter what fictional universe you're in.

And Anakin's motivation is realistic given the universe he's in, that was the point.

but along the way Lucas changed his mind and inserted the "I do it for Padme" angle, which is clunky and awkward.

Yet it dovetails neatly with the separation from and ultimate loss of Shmi, something set up in the previous films, starting back in TPM. So maybe it wasn't all that awkward and maybe it was part of the original plan.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

All I'm saying is I don't think the knee jerk reaction here to comparing Trek with some of the more influential things is reasonable at all.

Knee jerk!?! Seriously??? There's nothing knee jerk about having an opinion and expressing it.

Even with all the best classics - somebody at the time probably thought was not worthy of consideration either, and wouldn't have predicted the impact it had.

That has no bearing on whether those of us who say that Star Trek is less influential than both the Bible and Shakespeare are wrong, and for that matter whether Star Trek is a "classic."

Ask the average person to recite some Shakespeare, maybe they'll give you some "to be or not to be" at best. Start quoting some other line and they aren't going to know what you're talking about.

And you think that the average person will be able to recite some Star Trek, i.e., quote lines of dialog from it? Compare apples to apples. What is probably one of the most recognizable phrases, "Beam me up, Scotty," isn't even a proper line of dialog!

 

[M'Sharak]

All I'm saying is I don't think the knee jerk reaction here to comparing Trek with some of the more influential things is reasonable at all.

There's been no knee-jerk reaction, and the bulk of what commentary we've had on the matter has not been at all unreasonable.

Yes, a certain number of Trek tropes and expressions have entered the vocabulary-at-large—no one is maintaining otherwise—but to state that the scope of Trek's contribution in any way approaches that of Shakespeare or the KJV Bible is to grossly underestimate the amount of now-everyday language which is drawn from just those two older sources. The truth is that, compared to those, Trek isn't even on the radar screen yet, nor is it ever likely to be.

Pointing out the inaccuracy of exaggerated claims concerning Trek is not putting down Trek; it's just pointing out the inaccuracy of exaggerated claims.

Does any of this mean that you can't believe Trek is the greatest thing ever? Absolutely not, but don't be too surprised to learn that some may have other ideas on the subject.

 

[Belz...]

No, you do I have no problem believing that Anakin's motivations was his visions of Padme's aparent death, there's really no other evidience onscreen.

Then you haven't watched the movie carefully, if you missed the Jedi mistrust angle.

We're talking about character motivations, here.

No, really?

Is this an argument for something ?

And Anakin's motivation is realistic given the universe he's in, that was the point.

"Given the universe he's in" ? What does that even mean ?

 

[Australis]

I wish it had been the director of planet of the apes.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify...

You mean TIm Burton? Uh huh.

Or Matt Reeves? The guy who directed Cloverfield? COs that wasn't a big dumb actiony movie at all.

Do pay attention.

On the other hand, if you'd been paying attention, you'd know without a doubt that the allusion was to this guy.

And next time you're tempted to dredge up a post from two weeks ago for the sole purpose of taking a cheap swipe? Stifle the urge.

Appo logies.

Late to the thread and the language was annoying. Won't do it again.

ETA: Wyatt may have done the Apes movie, but can't possibly have the cred with the studio that Lin would have, both in terms of dollars in and sharpening an existing franchise. But I've said enough.

 

[Set Harth]

And Anakin's motivation is realistic given the universe he's in, that was the point.

"Given the universe he's in" ? What does that even mean ?

The Star Wars universe? Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

 

[Makarov]

Ask the average person to recite some Shakespeare, maybe they'll give you some "to be or not to be" at best. Start quoting some other line and they aren't going to know what you're talking about.

And you think that the average person will be able to recite some Star Trek, i.e., quote lines of dialog from it? Compare apples to apples. What is probably one of the most recognizable phrases, "Beam me up, Scotty," isn't even a proper line of dialog!

I didn't say people are going to be quoting more Trek lines. My point was in regards to his comment on recognizing lines and how people aren't going to remember everything even from the most influential things.

 

[Cyke101]

Ask the average person to recite some Shakespeare, maybe they'll give you some "to be or not to be" at best. Start quoting some other line and they aren't going to know what you're talking about.

And you think that the average person will be able to recite some Star Trek, i.e., quote lines of dialog from it? Compare apples to apples. What is probably one of the most recognizable phrases, "Beam me up, Scotty," isn't even a proper line of dialog!

I didn't say people are going to be quoting more Trek lines. My point was in regards to his comment on recognizing lines and how people aren't going to remember everything even from the most influential things.

That's the thing though, isn't it? The Bible, Shakespeare (who invented his own full words in his works), even the Illiad has influenced so much of everyday modern English that we take those words for granted without being aware of their etymologies, and thus the influences of those sources. Even with its widespread media presence, Trek isn't anywhere near that point. THAT's what makes the original point of Trek competing with the Bible and Shakespeare so mind-boggling and such an exaggeration. There's passion and love, and then there's delusion and hyperbole.

 

[Khan 2.0]

reading the Return to Tomorrow TMP book I cant help but imagine similar problems are being faced right this second for ST3 with the script etc.

 

[BillJ]

That's the thing though, isn't it? The Bible, Shakespeare (who invented his own full words in his works), even the Illiad has influenced so much of everyday modern English that we take those words for granted without being aware of their etymologies, and thus the influences of those sources. Even with its widespread media presence, Trek isn't anywhere near that point. THAT's what makes the original point of Trek competing with the Bible and Shakespeare so mind-boggling and such an exaggeration. There's passion and love, and then there's delusion and hyperbole.

Heck, I imagine The Simpsons will have a larger and more long-term impact on the general culture than Star Trek has had when everything is said and done.

 

[Botany Bay]

I haven't been following this forum, so I'm not sure where this movie is at, but this might be some good news if there's still any doubt.

Did the Paramount Studios tour the other day, and the Captain's chair was conspicuously absent from its regular spot in the prop warehouse they let the public into.

Off for a pre-filming touch up?

 

[Cyke101]

That's the thing though, isn't it? The Bible, Shakespeare (who invented his own full words in his works), even the Illiad has influenced so much of everyday modern English that we take those words for granted without being aware of their etymologies, and thus the influences of those sources. Even with its widespread media presence, Trek isn't anywhere near that point. THAT's what makes the original point of Trek competing with the Bible and Shakespeare so mind-boggling and such an exaggeration. There's passion and love, and then there's delusion and hyperbole.

Heck, I imagine The Simpsons will have a larger and more long-term impact on the general culture than Star Trek has had when everything is said and done.

I think that's a perfectly cromulent idea!

 

[Franklin]

That's the thing though, isn't it? The Bible, Shakespeare (who invented his own full words in his works), even the Illiad has influenced so much of everyday modern English that we take those words for granted without being aware of their etymologies, and thus the influences of those sources. Even with its widespread media presence, Trek isn't anywhere near that point. THAT's what makes the original point of Trek competing with the Bible and Shakespeare so mind-boggling and such an exaggeration. There's passion and love, and then there's delusion and hyperbole.

Heck, I imagine The Simpsons will have a larger and more long-term impact on the general culture than Star Trek has had when everything is said and done.

I think that's a perfectly cromulent idea!

Cormulent to me too. By the way, coincidentally, "The Simpsons" this week ended with an affectionate homage/parody (one can never be sure which it really is on that show) to TOS. Well worth seeing, especially the closing credits.

 

[Makarov]

Sure Simpsons also has an influence but it's mostly parody of other things going on. I'm not sure what lasting impact you're seeing in it once the show goes off the air. But I haven't kept up with that show in many years.

As far as Shakespeare goes you're probably right about modern language as far as vocabulary. However people take ideas and motivations influenced from Star Trek for granted just the same. From stuff like datapads and teleporters to warp speed, the idea of a utopian future. Not to mention the communicator / cell phone. It has inspired people as well as other TV shows. Not just obsessed fans, but the general public.

And Trek didn't invent those things, many are common to lots of sci fi but when people think science fiction the first things remembered are either Star Trek or Star Wars. We look back 100 years from now and I'm betting they will be remembered along with the big boys as far as influence goes. And I'm not even a fan of TOS.

 

[Mudd]

Jesus Christ!

That is all.

 

[BillJ]

Jesus Christ!

That is all.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Teleporters, warp speed, and utopian futures are fantasy. Cell phones were an inevitability.

Star Trek will only be remembered as long as the current breed of visual entertainment media exists. One thing Trek did get right is TV (and probably film too) does have a limited life span. Who knows when it will end, but it will be overtaken by something else eventually. Heck, it's only a matter of years before videogames completely overtake them as the dominant pop culture media.

Once they go away, Trek will fade from peoples' memory. The thing about those other "big boys" is they're literature. And reading is timeless.

 

[Cyke101]

Jesus Christ!

That is all.

I'm not even religious and I'm tellin' ya to preach!

Heck, I imagine The Simpsons will have a larger and more long-term impact on the general culture than Star Trek has had when everything is said and done.

I think that's a perfectly cromulent idea!

Cormulent to me too. By the way, coincidentally, "The Simpsons" this week ended with an affectionate homage/parody (one can never be sure which it really is on that show) to TOS. Well worth seeing, especially the closing credits.

The end credits embiggened my soul!