I wonder what would happen...

[Kobayshi Maru]

If the Borg collective tried to re-assimilate demon planet Seven...

Or Odo for that matter. They would find out that their implants keep falling off, each time Odo shapeshifts...

 

[at Quark's]

I think a lifeform like Odo would be hard to assimilate.

But, if they could, and if there is truth in their stock phrase we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own, you'd potentially end up with the Borg collective having shapeshifting capability. Doesn't sound good for the Federation

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I think a lifeform like Odo would be hard to assimilate.

But, if they could, and if there is truth in their stock phrase we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own, you'd potentially end up with the Borg collective having shapeshifting capability. Doesn't sound good for the Federation

Which begs the question: How do you make metallic Borg implants stick on something that turns to a liquid every sixteen hours?

 

[at Quark's]

Which begs the question: How do you make metallic Borg implants stick on something that turns to a liquid every sixteen hours?

If they were well and truly assimilated, I don't think they'd need to, they could just shapeshift functional implants with them when assuming solid form.

I think the problem would be how to keep them assimilated once they return to a liquid form. I don't know if the nano-assimilators could work with goo

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Which begs the question: How do you make metallic Borg implants stick on something that turns to a liquid every sixteen hours?

If they were well and truly assimilated, I don't think they'd need to, they could just shapeshift functional implants with them when assuming solid form.

I think the problem would be how to keep them assimilated once they return to a liquid form. I don't know if the nano-assimilators could work with goo

I don't think they can shapeshift anything, only the appearance of it. For example, Odo doesn't have a stomach or taste buds or a heart or internal organs in general, and he can't do faces very well. An implant is something that has to be exact to the minute detail, to the atom likely. I don't think it can be "shapeshifted". Not even by a skilled shapeshitfer.

 

[at Quark's]

I don't think they can shapeshift anything, only the appearance of it. For example, Odo doesn't have a stomach or taste buds or a heart or internal organs in general, and he can't do faces very well. An implant is something that has to be exact to the minute detail, to the atom likely. I don't think it can be "shapeshifted". Not even by a skilled shapeshitfer.

Then why do they need blood screenings to detect changelings, instead of just waving with tricorders over everybody ? Are those devices that poor?

Edit: perhaps I read your post too quickly. I suppose those facts could tell us that a skilled shapeshifter can do a pretty sophisticated job -at least good enough that Federation non-invasive scanning technology cannot tell the difference- but perhaps it is not good enough to make functioning Borg implants indeed.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I don't think they can shapeshift anything, only the appearance of it. For example, Odo doesn't have a stomach or taste buds or a heart or internal organs in general, and he can't do faces very well. An implant is something that has to be exact to the minute detail, to the atom likely. I don't think it can be "shapeshifted". Not even by a skilled shapeshitfer.

Then why do they need blood screenings to detect changelings, instead of just waving with tricorders over everybody ? Are those devices that poor?

Why was Data's mother able to fool every device, including the transporter into identifying her as a human being even though she was a robot like Data? In fact, it took an accident to give her nature away! We know from previous episodes that there are ways to emit false life signs that can fool sensors ( e.g. Rules of engagement) it seems manifest to me that the changelings only maintain an appearance of being human ( a very good one!), otherwise even their blood would look genuine!

 

[at Quark's]

Why was Data's mother able to fool every device, including the transporter into identifying her as a human being even though she was a robot like Data? In fact, it took an accident to give her nature away! We know from previous episodes that there are ways to emit false life signs that can fool sensors ( e.g. Rules of engagement) it seems manifest to me that the changelings only maintain an appearance of being human ( a very good one!), otherwise even their blood would look genuine!

Ah yes, I forgot about that. Still, I always found that notion (an android masking as a human and no enterprise device being able to even detect that something is interfering with their measurements) pretty incredible...

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Why was Data's mother able to fool every device, including the transporter into identifying her as a human being even though she was a robot like Data? In fact, it took an accident to give her nature away! We know from previous episodes that there are ways to emit false life signs that can fool sensors ( e.g. Rules of engagement) it seems manifest to me that the changelings only maintain an appearance of being human ( a very good one!), otherwise even their blood would look genuine!

Ah yes, I forgot about that. Still, I always found that notion (an android masking as a human and no enterprise device being able to even detect that something is interfering with their measurements) pretty incredible...

Personally, I find everything that happens in Star Trek that doesn't happen in the real world, pretty incredible in general. Name anything and I'll show you why.

 

[at Quark's]

Personally, I find everything that happens in Star Trek that doesn't happen in the real world, pretty incredible in general. Name anything and I'll show you why.

For me, there's still a difference between suspension of disbelief, and having trouble when stories become self-contradictory.

Take the transporter. Most likely such a device will never be built, given what we know of physics. But I'll take it under suspension of disbelief.

The transporter transporting Data's mother and not recognising she's not human, however, is one of those self-contradictory cases to me. OK, so we have a device that has to replicate a body/structure down to the quantum level (which should leave absolutely no room for even the smallest deception, otherwise you cannot reconstitute the body), and yet registers her as a human ?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Personally, I find everything that happens in Star Trek that doesn't happen in the real world, pretty incredible in general. Name anything and I'll show you why.

For me, there's still a difference between suspension of disbelief, and having trouble when stories become self-contradictory.

Take the transporter. Most likely such a device will never be built, given what we know of physics. But I'll take it under suspension of disbelief.

The transporter transporting Data's mother and not recognising she's not human, however, is one of those self-contradictory cases to me. OK, so we have a device that has to replicate a body/structure down to the quantum level (which should leave absolutely no room for even the smallest deception, otherwise you cannot reconstitute the body), and yet registers her as a human ?

I am not so sure about that. They often talk about a degradation of the signal. It seems that it's only beyond a certain threshold, more than a few percents!!! that the body is considered irretrievable. Remember relics where they were able to reconstitute Scotty's body but not his partner's.

 

[hux]

There's always the possibility that the Borg are liars and they simply can't assimilate every species. More precisely, they're not quite as powerful as we first thought. I know Voyager gets criticised for weakening the Borg but as far as i'm concerned it was already happening during TNG. When first introduced, they're almost invincible but gradually the Federation seem to learn how to resist them (though they remain formidable)

They're just not invincible anymore. They can't assimilate everyone. Just not possible. Some because it biologically can't be done and some because they know how to fight back

The Borg couldn't be terrifying forever (despite what some fans might want)

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

There's always the possibility that the Borg are liars and they simply can't assimilate every species...

Well, they can't! Species 8472!

 

[at Quark's]

I am not so sure about that. They often talk about a degradation of the signal. It seems that it's only beyond a certain threshold, more than a few percents!!! that the body is considered irretrievable. Remember relics where they were able to reconstitute Scotty's body but not his partner's.

We don't know what those percentages mean exactly.

Moreover, there could (and probably would) be a reduncancy in the signal, just to allow for corrections due to signal loss. In that case it would be comparable to losing, say, 20% of the information of a signal and still being able to reconstruct the original perfectly because 100% of the original information is still captured within the remaining 80% of the signal. This is common practise even in our day AFAIK, and I would imagine similar procedures would be followed when using the transporter. So in that case, you'd still have to capture the original with 100% accuracy.

Regarding the statement about quantum levels. I read that somewhere, but perhaps it wasn't a canonical source. Could have been Memory Alpha.

Anyway, it's late in the evening here and I'm going to sleep...

 

[Orphalesion]

Well as long as the nanobots mix with the mass of a Changeling, wouldn't that still assimilate them?

I don't think Changeling drones would use implants, the Borg are all about efficiency and a body that is constantly in flux, changeable, malleable and able to link together and split apart at will would be far more efficient than rigid humanoid bodies and implants. I actually think the Borg would soon start replacing all their drones with the Changeling/Founder race and the next time Starfleet officers infiltrate a Borg cube they find it's floor and walls covered in something like the Great Link instead of populated by mecha-zombies.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Well as long as the nanobots mix with the mass of a Changeling, wouldn't that still assimilate them?

I don't think Changeling drones would use implants, the Borg are all about efficiency and a body that is constantly in flux, changeable, malleable and able to link together and split apart at will would be far more efficient than rigid humanoid bodies and implants. I actually think the Borg would soon start replacing all their drones with the Changeling/Founder race and the next time Starfleet officers infiltrate a Borg cube they find it's floor and walls covered in something like the Great Link instead of populated by mecha-zombies.

The founders have shown themselves to be a very malevolent species. They create diseases that cripple entire planets for hundreds of years!!! I don't think they'd be much worse if they were drones too boot, whatever that might mean.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's never canonically stated whether or not the Borg are capable of assimilating Changelings. I might say, probably not, but if they ever met they might be able to find a way rather quickly. Ever notice we never meet a Borg who isn't a humanoid? Their nanites are designed with human nervous systems in mind. At the very least, existing nanites would not work on Changelings and they'd have to adapt the nanites to work on them.

@Kobayashi

Malevolent, yes, but more malevolent than real world humans?

 

[at Quark's]

Ever notice we never meet a Borg who isn't a humanoid? Their nanites are designed with human nervous systems in mind.

I've wondered about this as well ... obviously, species like the Q are out of the Borg's reach (for now), but do the Borg hunt all "sufficiently developed" civilizations, or just the "sufficiently humanoid" subset of those ?

I'd say it could be only the humanoid subset ones ( a rather large subset, up until including species 8472), but then, there is this quote from the gift:

KIM: I'll start here. You said the Borg got this stuff from species two five nine. Who are they? Guess the Borg meet a lot of people, don't they? Stupid question. So, what's it like out there in Galactic Cluster three?
SEVEN: Beyond your comprehension.
KIM: Try me.
SEVEN: Galactic Cluster three is a transmaterial energy plane intersecting twenty two billion omnicordial lifeforms.
KIM: Ah. Interesting.

Although the quote perhaps doesn't say anything about 'species two five nine' directly (i'm not sure if they are those 'omnicordial life forms'), it does sound like they're living in an environment more alien than fluidic space, and hence probably are more alien than species 8472.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe they're trying not to scare the new races the Borg meet?

By Tailoring the crews of the Assimilation Cubes as something familiar so the noobz don't completely freak the fuck out while they're being hunted.

The Borg do not think of themselves as evil. Assimilation is a good thing, that everyone should want once they know how good it is, it's their job to make the transition as comfortable as possible.

THIS is the Borg trying to be pleasant.

 

[RoJoHen]

The way I see it, if Section 31 can manufacture a virus that infects Changelings, the Borg should be able to modify their nanoprobes to do the same.