"Starfleet is not a military organization" (Peak Performance)

[Terran_Empire]

Huh? How do you figure Picard? Look at your uniform, your rank insignia, the disciplined crew, military hierarchy, military traditions...and the "fleet" in Starfleet certainly isn't referring to post office trucks or taxis...what is Starfleet if not a military organization?

I know what the writers were trying to get Picard to say but wouldn't it be more apt to say that the Federation is not a militarily driven organization or something to that effect? I find it insulting for Picard to be both so out of character as to diminish the importance of battle readiness and also to flat out say Starfleet isn't a military when a blind baboon could tell you otherwise.

My cents...

 

[The Old Mixer]

They took out an important piece of context when they dropped the part where Picard went on to pass gas and then insisted that it smelled like lilacs.

 

[Makarov]

I think Q would have destroyed humanity if Picard & Starfleet didn't have more to them than just being a military organization.

 

[Terran_Empire]

I think Q would have destroyed humanity if Picard & Starfleet didn't have more to them than just being a military organization.

Not the point.

 

[bolak]

In the UK we have some youth organisations aligned with and funded by the armed forces but which, for legal reasons, cannot be called 'military' ( as members can join younger than 16 years ).

These are therefore vaguely referred to as 'disciplined organisations'.

I see those as being structural analogues of Starfleet; there are ranks and orders, and cadets dress in uniforms and follow military protocol ( e.g. saluting at officers ).

The cohesive whole depends upon the execution of commands; those who disrupt this re subject to disciplinary proceedings leading through warnings to reduction in rank and ultimately dismissal. Members can 'hand in their badge' and leave voluntarily, as we saw characters do in Star Trek.

The organisations have their own 'fleets' of vehicles and ostensibly military equipment, such as rifles.

So I do think it is possible that Starfleet can look 'military' to us from the snippets we see of it, yet be a civilian organisation.

 

[Melakon]

Starfleet more closely resembles a coast guard organization than a military navy.

 

[Silvercrest]

If Starfleet wasn't military, they wouldn't use courts-martial to enforce their laws. That's what the term means.

 

[Terran_Empire]

I think we are playing semantics here. For all intents and purposes Starfleet is the military arm of the Federation, both in recognizable aesthetics and in function. That's what's so maddening about the dialog from Picard, it's a denial of facts, a denial of the obvious and only because the term "military" apparently has an inherently distasteful connotation in the 24th century.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Defense has always been a part of Starfleet's overall mission, but to folks like Picard, it isn't its primary aspect--in their eyes, Starfleet may be first and foremost an exploration fleet, a logistical service, a humanitarian relief agency, etc.--with the use of a naval-style organizational structure to keep things tidy. To our 20th-Century/21st-Century sensibility, that makes Starfleet nothing less than a military, but in the 24th-Century, that's not how it promotes itself.

I think that's the issue--how Starfleet promotes itself as. Starfleet probably does publicly downplay its purely defensive endeavors in lieu of emphasizing its exploration, scientific, and humanitarian programs (that might not have been the case during the time of the TOS movies though, specifically from Star Trek II onwards, IMO).

 

[Lance]

To push the boat out a little, we need to remember that military forces throughout history have had much broader roles than simply fighting wars with each other. Fundamentally, it's about territory... but Navies like the British, French and Dutch in the 18th century had botanists and cartographers on board, the equivalent to a ship carrying scientists in Star Trek's time. Discovering new places, charting shorelines and cataloguing the flora and fauna or these "strange new worlds" was as much as part of the 18th century Navy responsibilities as being a part of a blockade or taking down enemy ships in combat.

Basically, we need to remember that despite what Hollywood frequently shows us, being a "military" does not automatically mean that it is a "combat force".

I think that Starfleet depicts a very *realistic* military: when they need to fight, they can certainly put up a fight, but it simply isn't the be-all and end-all of their universe on a day-to-day basis. Just like militaries in the 18th century. Or today, even.

 

[Orphalesion]

^ What Lance said. ST TOS was a "Wagon Trail to the Stars", TNG was the golden age of discoveries and seafaring in space with a ship being Navy, diplomatic and research vessel in one.

only because the term "military" apparently has an inherently distasteful connotation in the 24th century.

Perhaps that's the key, by the 24th century language had changed so that "military" only described the (from their point of view) primitive "fighting forces" of ages past.
The Enterprise doesn't exactly carry ground troops or fighter pilots and every person on the ship seems to either have a function that either diplomatic, scientific or some sort of administrative position that helps keep the ship running.

So to Picard calling the Starfleet "military" might have been like calling New York City a "colony".

Of course that's just apologetic fanwank from my part...

 

[MakeshiftPython]

If Starfleet wasn't military, they wouldn't use courts-martial to enforce their laws. That's what the term means.

Roddenberry certainly tried to rid Starfleet of the "military" aspect. He even rejected "The Measure of a Man" at first because he believed that humans in the 24th century no longer needed court systems, because they've become so clever at sorting things out more efficiently.

Thankfully, Berman somehow overruled that and allowed the script to be made an episode.

Whenever TNG tries to proclaim Starfleet not being "military", I just think of it less as the characters saying and more likely Roddenberry scribbling his own thoughts into the characters' mouths.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Had Picard said something along the lines of "Starfleet is not primarily a military organization," I'd have no problem with that. Problem is, that's not what he said.

 

[Timo]

I think we are playing semantics here.

Indeed, my stock answer here is that Starfleet is not a military organization, it's a naval organization!

Those two words used to be opposites until very recently: military meant ground armies, navy meant sea armies. The two were completely different worlds, with ground armies raised only when absolutely needed due to the expenses and risks, but with sea armies maintained in constant readiness because it's impossible to build a ship only when you need her. This duality survived the introduction of universal conscription and standing armies: now it became a game of one-upmanship where ground armies were "hordes of ill-educated semi-civilians with guns, in need of extreme discipline", while sea armies were "expert organizations with professionals operating expensive equipment", at least from the naval point of view.

I could easily see Picard complaining on the eve of wargames that his crew doesn't need to be mindlessly drilled like the "military", as they are "naval" professionals who already know their jobs. The same goes for our other (!) reference on Starfleet not being military, out of the total of two (!!!), namely Admiral Forrest worrying that Captain Archer would not accept military personnel aboard - a classic case of interservices rivalry, as Archer already had naval personnel aboard for the job.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

Yeah, the terminology is sketchy.

Theoretically they're all under the unified banner of "armed forces", but how many and which ones are exactly 'military' is debatable. "All of them" is certainly one answer, but it's probably not the most accurate.

One wonders if Picard's statement is in fact an acknowledgement that Starfleet by his time is an amalgamated force (ie, there are no longer separate branches, and all personnel are trained in all duties)???

I admit that's kind of a broad interpretation of his words.

 

[Timo]

We don't even get to know whether Picard is saying that "Starfleet isn't the Spanish Inquisition" or "Starfleet isn't a feudal system" (i.e. that things have moved on, and Starfleet isn't one of those things that no longer exist but everybody supposedly remembers) or that "Starfleet isn't the Klingon Conquest Force" (i.e. that Starfleet is different from other currently existing organizations everybody is familiar with)...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Terran_Empire]

There are some great responses here, and I think we can all agree that while Starfleet doesn't like to promote itself as such, it IS a military force, albeit with much broader responsibilities but nonetheless there is no denying the quite obvious.

Had Picard said something along the lines of "Starfleet is not primarily a military organization," I'd have no problem with that. Problem is, that's not what he said.

Absolutely. For a man of Picard's linguistic capabilities there is honestly no excuse for such a folly in conversation.

Gene and the writers have hammered away at us that Starfleet is not an aggressor/territorial/imperialistic, what have you, since TOS first aired. Okay, we get it, but it takes a specially skewed form of pacifism to stroll about in heavily armed starships, giving orders in military fashion and expecting them to be carried out as such and then in casual conversation candidly deny that you are part of a military force.

 

[Terran_Empire]

I think we are playing semantics here.

Indeed, my stock answer here is that Starfleet is not a military organization, it's a naval organization!

I believe the term "military" is simply an umbrella term synonymous with "armed forces" which only denotes a force authorized with the defense of a state (in this case the Federation). "Army", "Navy", and more recently "Air Force" and other divisions are simply rounded up with the broad term "military".

 

[The Old Mixer]

There is one excuse...it was Season 2. I'd like to think that the writers of later seasons wouldn't have put those words in Picard's mouth, but there's probably an example that I'm forgetting....

 

[Shon T'Hara]

Starfleet more closely resembles a coast guard organization than a military navy.

In the United States at least the Coast Guard is considered part of the military, and it actively participated in both World Wars.