Justin Lin is directing Star Trek XIII

[johnjm22]

This makes no logical sense at all, nor does it address what the previous poster actually said.

Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-pur-bə-lee; Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

For my addressing of "what the previous poster actually said" please refer to the additional writing of post #318 in this thread.

 

[urbandefault]

I was watching some classic TOS last night and I had to laugh at a few things

In I think the episode is "Shore Leave" - (the one with the fantasy planet that makes the things you think about) Kirk spends about 5 minutes having a fist fight with a robo-Finnegan, a yeoman gets her uniform oh so carefully torn, and then in the Organian episode, Kirk and Spock create some giant explosions, and fistfight some Klingons.

Lots of high minded philosophy in those episodes. Certainly could tell that Goddenberry was aiming for a cultural and philosophical masterpiece

Good catch, and right on the nose. Star Trek was about making profitable TV, not creating the history of the future.

I think that so many fans are searching for something to believe in that they've assigned all these high concepts to a TV show that was designed to be a paycheck for its creator.

GR was not the Great Bird. He was a man. A horny, greedy man, who had a great idea for a TV show.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I personally feel that Gene Roddenberry and those who helped write, produce, and create those 79 episodes were trying to make ENTERTAINING television, and along the way they mixed in some social consciousness, social commentary, philosophical messages, female costumes that revealed hipbones, bad fistfights, mystery, etc.

Lots of ingredients, but each were evaluated and included based primarily on what would be ENTERTAINING.

 

[Franklin]

I was watching some classic TOS last night and I had to laugh at a few things

In I think the episode is "Shore Leave" - (the one with the fantasy planet that makes the things you think about) Kirk spends about 5 minutes having a fist fight with a robo-Finnegan, a yeoman gets her uniform oh so carefully torn, and then in the Organian episode, Kirk and Spock create some giant explosions, and fistfight some Klingons.

Lots of high minded philosophy in those episodes. Certainly could tell that Goddenberry was aiming for a cultural and philosophical masterpiece

Heck, there were fights in both pilots, Pike fighting the giant and throttling the neck of a Talosian in "The Cage", and Kirk v. Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

Also, besides those I mentioned above and the ones mentioned by JM, there were fights in:
-- "Space Seed",
-- "Journey to Babel",
-- "Arena",
-- "Amok Time",
-- "Court Martial",
-- "The Gamesters of Triskelion",
-- "The Omega Glory",
-- "The Savage Curtain",
-- "The Day of the Dove",
-- "Bread and Circuses".

Some of those were either written by Roddenberry or he had at least a story credit.

That's fourteen episodes mentioned above. There may be a few others, I can't remember. But 14 of 78 (counting "The Cage" and not the two-parter "The Menagerie") is 18 percent of all episodes, or about one in five with fisticuffs. Hardly rare and certainly not unprecedented in movies.

 

[M'Sharak]

This makes no logical sense at all, nor does it address what the previous poster actually said.

Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-pur-bə-lee; Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Hyperbole is better when it is employed in order to make a point. Here, it's employed more as a straw man:

...

You must think these movies are infallible timeless masterpieces. I mean if EVERY example of suckage in them can be quantifiably dismissed, then these films must be the epitome of perfection. No one that loves these films has any sort of bias at all.

"You must think" = "Here, watch me putting words in your mouth" and the rest just seems sort of angrily sarcastic, to no useful purpose.

Is that really what you meant to do, or could you have written something different there and made a point more effectively (not to mention more elegantly)?

 

[Malaika]

This guy. Seriously.

JJ Trek IS NOT successful, pure BS, it was denied a TV series from CBS as it has no product sales. The last movie cost Paramount 28% of their financial worth. They had to fire 110 people as damage control in summer of 2013. Most every company that is making products with Bad Robot has canceled. Orci the script writer and would be director for ST3 was fired by Paramount for writing a crappy script... the only reason the other 2 scripts and movies passed was the people at Paramount who created this crazy idea to take back the franchise were there, they now are fired. Paramount is a reluctant partner is making St3... it is only being made as the prior people at Paramount who granted Bad Robot a 3 movie contract extended in by a year before STID in 2012, if was not for this is no chance this movie would be being made and shoved down our throats in 2016 as a Gene tribute... and do not let the talking heads tell you otherwise, if the studios do not listen to us... and we will take the Roddenberry documentary along with logic of the 50 years to the press.... we will tank this movie so bad they will consider Nemisis a success story. The talking heads here representing Bad Robot are trying to tell you that you have no power, if this were REALLY the case JJTrek would be on CBS right now. We have the power, we make the decisions with our wallet.

They're gonna take the Roddenberry documentary (whatever the hell that is) as well as the "logic of the 50 years" () to the presses? Oh no we're doomed!

Also worth pointing out, I posted the ever-declining figures of Trek Prime awhile before being banned, they just replied that I was a Bad Robot plant and that the statistics falsified. When I posted corroborating statistics from a 1999 Trektoday article, they claimed this site was bought and paid for by Bad Robot.

There is a list of about 8 names of people who have at points said they are either good friends with, working with, or have alliances to Bad Robot. I can go back and copy and paste the admissions. Bill Sweet and Jon X are among others on this list.

He's making a list and he's checking it twice!

And speaking of damage control, wasn't he also sure 100% that there would be no movie and soon we'd get the news that br trek died, and cbs wanted to make a series and make one of the fan series canon? Now he's saying there will be a trek3 to boycott...
I wonder why his sources didn't tell him the movie would be made, after all, when he posted his 'facts'. Maybe he's himself a victim of a conspiracy...

Glad to know, btw, that there are people like him to save us trek fans from evil BR&co

 

[urbandefault]

CBS has denied Trek a series for a looooong time now. Not because of the movies, but because Les Moonves just isn't interested in doing it.

I guarantee that if Moonves thought that a Trek series on TV would make money for CBS he'd be all over it. Look at the NCIS franchise. People watch, and it makes money.

Bottom line, if there was a profitable market for TV Trek it would be everywhere. So far, there isn't.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I like to think that CBS is taking a break from Trek because they know that the longer they wait, the bigger the hype for the first Trek series in decades. The long gap after TOS helped TNG a great deal.

 

[Cinema Geekly]

I could criticize a script that panders to the established Trek fan base, or talk about the pathetically melodramatic interactions between Spock and his girlfriend, or how Kirk's death scene fails to generate tension, because at no point does most of the audience feel there's a real chance he could actually die for good.

BTW, a guy from the 1990's helps design a technologically advanced space ship 250+ years into the future. I'm sure this can some how be explained by the fact that he is a genetically-engineered human augment. Fantastic.

I could go on and on of course, but it's not actually these things that make the movie "bad." You can pick on nearly any movie for its plot holes, silliness, and implausibilities, but there's a qualitative threshold that exists before it becomes "dumb," and STID exceeds it. It's one notch above Power Rangers level script writing.

Your points about the interactions between Spock/Urhura are most certainly valid even if I thought they were fine. But I don't think the Kirk death was ever meant to be tension filled. It was meant to be emotional and if you put yourself in Spock's shoes I think you can see how that would be. When I saw that scene I marveled at their use of it. The original scene was meant to be the culmination of their friendship (a story they promptly screwed up in the next film). When I saw the STID I saw it as the vehicle to begin their friendship. So I always knew Kirk was going to live. Spock however wasn't sitting in the audience, you are suppose to put yourself in his place.

On your second point.....If it helps Khan in STID has been around starfleet special ops for at least a year before this film takes place. In WOK he was able to take over an operate a ship he had never seen before and did in presumably in minutes whilst somehow not knowing that space isn't two dimensional despite being alive in the 90's.

And to your third point I highly doubt there isn't a single episode of Trek or another film that you couldn't easily dissect until it passes your qualitative threshold for dumb.

 

[Dac]

^^^Going by that argument though, Spock had only just previously been mind melding with his former superior officer, arguably the man who gave him a chance on a ship and elevated him from an academy lecturer - as he died, and displayed absolutely zero emotional reaction. Contrast that with butting heads with Kirk after Kirk saved his life, after going on the mission to catch Harrison and agreeing to work with Harrison and I just can't see any basis for a friendship there that I can believe in. Or at least one which would cause that level of a psychotic break. I think there is a middle ground at the end of that scene I could have lived with, but Spock screaming "KHAAAAN!" the way he did was absolutely comical. Even when his mother died and home planet got destroyed, he had to be goaded into being angry. The cause and effect of his anger over Kirk's death just doesn't add up to me. :/

 

[urbandefault]

I like to think that CBS is taking a break from Trek because they know that the longer they wait, the bigger the hype for the first Trek series in decades. The long gap after TOS helped TNG a great deal.

You can like to think anything you want, but as long as Les Moonves, the HMFWRIC at CBS, doesn't like the idea of Trek on TV... too bad for you.

Seriously, people. There's a big reality gap here.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I like to think that CBS is taking a break from Trek because they know that the longer they wait, the bigger the hype for the first Trek series in decades. The long gap after TOS helped TNG a great deal.

You can like to think anything you want, but as long as Les Moonves, the HMFWRIC at CBS, doesn't like the idea of Trek on TV... too bad for you.

So what?

 

[urbandefault]

I like to think that CBS is taking a break from Trek because they know that the longer they wait, the bigger the hype for the first Trek series in decades. The long gap after TOS helped TNG a great deal.

You can like to think anything you want, but as long as Les Moonves, the HMFWRIC at CBS, doesn't like the idea of Trek on TV... too bad for you.

So what?

Yeah, so what?

There is little to no chance that Trek will be back on TV in the near future. If it ever does come back, it will not be what the "fans" want.

The "true fans" are living in a dream world.

 

[Devon]

JJ Trek IS NOT successful, pure BS,

Pure BS is something Para would know about.

it was denied a TV series from CBS as it has no product sales.

Other than its nearly Billion Dollars in box office sales and another few hundred million in DVD/Blu-Ray sales, correct!

The last movie cost Paramount 28% of their financial worth.

This sounds like he's trying to use terminology that even confuses him. What does he think their "Financial worth" is? This goes along with his claim of a $200 Million "design budget."

They had to fire 110 people as damage control in summer of 2013.

He's pulling these numbers from a memo that was sent in the fall of 2013. These were done as cost cutting measures. He's failing to mention that Paramount did a similar round of layoffs in 2012, and that the 110 positions was only 5% of its workforce. He seems to think that Star Trek is the only film Paramount ever made.

Most every company that is making products with Bad Robot has canceled. Orci the script writer and would be director for ST3 was fired by Paramount for writing a crappy script... the only reason the other 2 scripts and movies passed was the people at Paramount who created this crazy idea to take back the franchise were there, they now are fired.

Like Brad Grey? Who is still there? The people who were let go were people in different departments who generally wouldn't have any say so in what films can be made.

Paramount is a reluctant partner is making St3... it is only being made as the prior people

What "prior people?"

at Paramount who granted Bad Robot a 3 movie contract extended in by a year before STID in 2012,

What???

if was not for this is no chance this movie would be being made and shoved down our throats in 2016 as a Gene tribute... and do not let the talking heads tell you otherwise,

The Talking Heads reunited? Sweeet.

if the studios do not listen to us...

Yes, they generally do not listen to a group of "challenged" people on Facebook.

and we will take the Roddenberry documentary along with logic of the 50 years to the press.... we will tank this movie so bad they will consider Nemisis a success story.

According to you, Para, these films aren't successful, so why would you have to do anything to help it? And since he has zero clue what's going on in the world, he claims that Paramount's layoffs were the result of Star Trek, so if the film tanks what does he think will happen?

The talking heads here representing Bad Robot are trying to tell you that you have no power, if this were REALLY the case JJTrek would be on CBS right now.

Is Para not the same one who says that there is a non-compete until 2015???

We have the power, we make the decisions with our wallet.

Yes... that's why there is now a third film in the works.

 

[CorporalClegg]

This sounds like he's trying to use terminology that even confuses him. What does he think their "Financial worth" is? This goes along with his claim of a $200 Million "design budget."

This confused me too. I inferred it to mean he thinks Paramount's disposable income is only ~$750m.

 

[Amaris]

^^^Going by that argument though, Spock had only just previously been mind melding with his former superior officer, arguably the man who gave him a chance on a ship and elevated him from an academy lecturer - as he died, and displayed absolutely zero emotional reaction. Contrast that with butting heads with Kirk after Kirk saved his life, after going on the mission to catch Harrison and agreeing to work with Harrison and I just can't see any basis for a friendship there that I can believe in. Or at least one which would cause that level of a psychotic break. I think there is a middle ground at the end of that scene I could have lived with, but Spock screaming "KHAAAAN!" the way he did was absolutely comical. Even when his mother died and home planet got destroyed, he had to be goaded into being angry. The cause and effect of his anger over Kirk's death just doesn't add up to me. :/

Remember, that Pike's meld was the very first time Spock had ever melded with someone at the moment of their death. It's the equivalent of emotional overload. He even spoke of the confusion involved.

When Kirk was dying, all of these impressions he received from Pike's death dropped on him like a ton of bricks, and even without melding with Kirk, he felt everything his friend was experiencing. It was the empathy Kirk had been trying to show him from day one, that finally reached him, and it overloaded his emotional barriers.

As for his mother, that's just shock, and the need to be A Good And Proper Vulcan™. We also saw him suffering for it later, but he also had Uhura to help him through it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

What J. said.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

You can like to think anything you want, but as long as Les Moonves, the HMFWRIC at CBS, doesn't like the idea of Trek on TV... too bad for you.

So what?

Yeah, so what?

There is little to no chance that Trek will be back on TV in the near future. If it ever does come back, it will not be what the "fans" want.

The "true fans" are living in a dream world.

I don't expect it to come anytime soon, but it will return.

 

[CorporalClegg]

If Star Trek ever returns to hour-long episodic form, it'll be as streaming. "TV's," as it's currently defined, days are numbered.

 

[Amaris]

So what?

Yeah, so what?

There is little to no chance that Trek will be back on TV in the near future. If it ever does come back, it will not be what the "fans" want.

The "true fans" are living in a dream world.

I don't expect it to come anytime soon, but it will return.

Star Trek? Perhaps. The same kind of Star Trek that people had before the J.J. Abrams movies? Unlikely.