Backstory

[Anwar]

Well, why else do we see nothing but Humans in Starfleet in TOS except for Spock? Why all the references to something Terran based when they refer to whoever is in charge? Why are they all racist to Spock like he was a true anomaly?

The TOS Federation was your typical Space America, that's why.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, why else do we see nothing but Humans in Starfleet in TOS except for Spock? Why all the references to something Terran based when they refer to whoever is in charge? Why are they all racist to Spock like he was a true anomaly?

The TOS Federation was your typical Space America, that's why.

Because it was a show on a tight budget. Having exotic aliens in every episode wasn't practical. Which is also why most of the aliens encountered looked like human. The Babel delegates show how diverse the Federation was. The one species seemingly missing from the Babel conference were humans.

So no, the idea in TOS wasn't an "Earth Federation" and it wasn't a "Human Empire".

Who is "they"? McCoy was the one who ribbed Spock and Spock gave it back in equal measure. The writers presented it as friendly banter between comrades and not racist attacks.

 

[Warped9]

Man, I've seen friends exchange the nastiest barbs that you would never say to a stranger. I'm reminded of that scene in Gran Torino where Clint Eastwood's character exchanges barbs with his longtime barber.

 

[Anwar]

It wasn't just McCoy, it was also Scotty (using "Vulcan" like a cure word in Day of the Dove) and Stiles. And the Vulcans being racist against Humans as well.

Makes sense, I mean the humans wouldn't want too many aliens in their Military so the humans could keep asserting their dominance over everyone.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It wasn't just McCoy, it was also Scotty (using "Vulcan" like a cure word in Day of the Dove) and Stiles. And the Vulcans being racist against Humans as well.

Makes sense, I mean the humans wouldn't want too many aliens in their Military so the humans could keep asserting their dominance over everyone.

Day of the Dove isn't the best example to use, what with the alien mind control and all.

Why would the humans have the only say in who's in the military of the multi-species Federation? What dominance? The Federation has many species in it. They work together as seen in Journey Babel.

 

[Anwar]

Why would the humans have the only say in who's in the military of the multi-species Federation? What dominance? The Federation has many species in it. They work together as seen in Journey Babel.

Why would they have the say? Cause the Federation was their creation and they were the majority of it. The other species are weaker partners who have a voice but are not the voice the Humans have. That's why everything was so Human-centric (until TNG "Messed that up" a bit).

It's why FC annoyed so many TOS fans, cause it showed the Humans NOT being the inventors of Warp Drive (Vulcans had it first) and NOT being the ones who formed the Federation on their own.

 

[Lance]

It's why FC annoyed so many TOS fans, cause it showed the Humans NOT being the inventors of Warp Drive (Vulcans had it first) and NOT being the ones who formed the Federation on their own.

Uh, no, that never bothered me.

It makes sense that Vulcans would have Warp before humans, and of course humans didn't form the Federation on their own.

Cochrane being the "inventor of warp drive" is significant to Kirk, who makes that statement, because he's a human. To Spock, for example, I doubt that Cochrane's 'invention' was of any significance at all, apart from the fact that it ultimately facilitated first contact and the birth of the Federation as we know it.

Same deal with all the times that people like Geordi idolized Cochrane for 'his' invention. It's because they're humans, and have a certain parochialism. It doesn't mean Cochrane literally was the first ever being in the entire cosmos to have invented faster-than-light-flight. That proposition is preposterous.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why would the humans have the only say in who's in the military of the multi-species Federation? What dominance? The Federation has many species in it. They work together as seen in Journey Babel.

Why would they have the say? Cause the Federation was their creation and they were the majority of it. The other species are weaker partners who have a voice but are not the voice the Humans have. That's why everything was so Human-centric (until TNG "Messed that up" a bit).

It's why FC annoyed so many TOS fans, cause it showed the Humans NOT being the inventors of Warp Drive (Vulcans had it first) and NOT being the ones who formed the Federation on their own.

Again Journey To Babel. Its pretty much the only example in TOS of how the Federation works.

You seem enamored with the idea of a human dominated Federation. But it's not supported by what we see of how the Federation works.

 

[Anwar]

Why would the humans have the only say in who's in the military of the multi-species Federation? What dominance? The Federation has many species in it. They work together as seen in Journey Babel.

Why would they have the say? Cause the Federation was their creation and they were the majority of it. The other species are weaker partners who have a voice but are not the voice the Humans have. That's why everything was so Human-centric (until TNG "Messed that up" a bit).

It's why FC annoyed so many TOS fans, cause it showed the Humans NOT being the inventors of Warp Drive (Vulcans had it first) and NOT being the ones who formed the Federation on their own.

Again Journey To Babel. Its pretty much the only example in TOS of how the Federation works.

You seem enamored with the idea of a human dominated Federation. But it's not supported by what we see of how the Federation works.

Fed ships are all crewed mostly by humans, they use entirely American style military ranking systems, they all have Western names, Spock is seen as some big anomaly in the entire Starfleet, the Federation Council is on Earth, Starfleet Academy is on Earth, whenever anyone wants to attack the Federation it's almost always Earth that gets attacked first, etc.

Taking all that into consideration, it's "Journey to Babel" that doesn't fit.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why would they have the say? Cause the Federation was their creation and they were the majority of it. The other species are weaker partners who have a voice but are not the voice the Humans have. That's why everything was so Human-centric (until TNG "Messed that up" a bit).

It's why FC annoyed so many TOS fans, cause it showed the Humans NOT being the inventors of Warp Drive (Vulcans had it first) and NOT being the ones who formed the Federation on their own.

Again Journey To Babel. Its pretty much the only example in TOS of how the Federation works.

You seem enamored with the idea of a human dominated Federation. But it's not supported by what we see of how the Federation works.

Fed ships are all crewed mostly by humans, they use entirely American style military ranking systems, they all have Western names, Spock is seen as some big anomaly in the entire Starfleet, the Federation Council is on Earth, Starfleet Academy is on Earth, whenever anyone wants to attack the Federation it's almost always Earth that gets attacked first, etc.

Taking all that into consideration, it's "Journey to Babel" that doesn't fit.

Might be because its a TV show produced for a Western/American audience that lives on Earth. Don't read anything more into it than that.


The USS Potemkin has a non-Western name. Other non Western names considered by the show: Kongo, Tori and Ari.

Where do you get the idea that Spock is an anomaly? There's a Starship crewed by Vulcans in Starfleet. We see Andorian, Caitian and Edosian crewmembers in TAS and several alien crewmembers in TMP.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Don't confuse the issue with facts.

 

[Lance]

Again Journey To Babel. Its pretty much the only example in TOS of how the Federation works.

You seem enamored with the idea of a human dominated Federation. But it's not supported by what we see of how the Federation works.

Fed ships are all crewed mostly by humans, they use entirely American style military ranking systems, they all have Western names, Spock is seen as some big anomaly in the entire Starfleet, the Federation Council is on Earth, Starfleet Academy is on Earth, whenever anyone wants to attack the Federation it's almost always Earth that gets attacked first, etc.

Taking all that into consideration, it's "Journey to Babel" that doesn't fit.

Might be because its a TV show produced for a Western/American audience that lives on Earth. Don't read anything more into it than that.


The USS Potemkin has a non-Western name. Other non Western names considered by the show: Kongo, Tori and Ari.

Where do you get the idea that Spock is an anomaly? There's a Starship crewed by Vulcans in Starfleet. We see Andorian, Caitian and Edosian crewmembers in TAS and several alien crewmembers in TMP.

Not to mention Nu!Trek has shown a more diverse crew as well, certainly not human-centric. Believe me, if TOS could have got away with it, they would have done, but make-up like that costs money.

 

[PCz911]

^^ Don't confuse the issue with facts.

Hey, I resemble that remark!