Favorite Bond actor

[Pingfah]

Is it that there's absolutely no reason Elba couldn't play Bond?

Oh, so this is the part where we all go:




Typical.

Don't address the content head on, so you deflect from the points made with a witticism.

Now comes the pro-Elba crowd with the funny emoticons to continue to divert from the points made because you CAN'T address the points made.

I didn't deflect from the point, that's exactly the point you made.

It's not my fault you aren't even internally consistent with your prejudice.

 

[EnriqueH]

I'm all for diversity and I love my (EDIT) ICONIC white, black, asian, green and blue characters equally, which is why I've said: I don't want Elba playing Bond anymore than I want Daniel Craig playing Shaft.

Shaft is a Harlem private eye whose colour was intrinsic to his character. It put him at odds with the still-mainly white police force. A white John Shaft would have an entirely different perspective and experiences than a black one. There is nothing so intrinsic about Bond's character that relies on race. He needs to be a charismatic, tall, handsome and debonair British man who looks like he can handle himself in a fight. Elba ticks all those boxes.

First of all, thanks for an intelligent (and respectful) response.

Second, point taken on Shaft. What about Blade? How about Lando Calrissian? How about Uhura?

Third, I think Bond---for me---has always been about a certain look. Indeed in Bond themed boards, books, interviews and speculation, "Does he look Bondish to you?" Hell, even in described Bond casting calls with Broccolli and Saltzman.

I don't think Elba looks Bondish. Yeah, he's good looking, but so is Colin Farrell. How about a Colin Farrell Bond? Would that be good? Patrick Stewart has always been a handsome, debonair man. Would he make a good Bond? Jason Statham always looks great in his black suit, white shirt and black tie. Would he make a good Bond?

Blade is a vampire, martial artist. (And I don't know anything about him beyond the movies because I haven't read the comics.) But is there anything about him that has to black? He's a sword wielding martial artist. So does that mean Jason Statham could play him?

What if Klingons suddenly developed forehead ridges? What if Trill went from having ridges on their foreheads to having spots? What if Borg went from being pasty pale to having brown and green colouring in their faces? Or if Romulans developed forehead bumps? Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, all of this did happen.

You didn't answer my question. How would you feel if Andorians were green and Orions were blue in Star Trek 3?

And for that matter, how would you feel if we gave Klingons smooth foreheads again?

All those things you mentioned happened gradually over time as the writers worked to establish those races. Now, it's pretty established that Klingons have ridges and that Andorians are blue.

So how would you feel if tomorrow Andorians were green and Orions were blue?

 

[EnriqueH]

Is it that there's absolutely no reason Elba couldn't play Bond?

Oh, so this is the part where we all go:




Typical.

Don't address the content head on, so you deflect from the points made with a witticism.

Now comes the pro-Elba crowd with the funny emoticons to continue to divert from the points made because you CAN'T address the points made.

I didn't deflect from the point, that's exactly the point you made.

It's not my fault you aren't even internally consistent with your prejudice.

Prejudice is a strong word, and I resent it. And how am I not consistent?

 

[Pingfah]

All of the actors who have played Bond look completely different to each other. There is no "Bondish" look, they all look Bondish because of how they inhabit the role.

You've so far given no grounded reason he can't play Bond except for "tradition", which is basically just another word for ingrained prejudice. It isn't a strong word at all, it's an accurate one.

 

[EnriqueH]

All of the actors who have played Bond look completely different to each other. There is no "Bondish" look, they all look Bondish because of how they inhabit the role.

You've so far given no grounded reason he can't play Bond except for "tradition", which is basically just another word for ingrained prejudice. It isn't a strong word at all, it's an accurate one.

So tradition means prejudice? Is that what you're saying? And that sounds accurate to you? Interesting.

"There's no Bondish look." Please, where have you been the past 50 years of the franchise.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ You're welcome re the response.

I don't think the Andorian/Orion comparison is at all relevant, respectfully. Theyre all human actors under the make up. It's not like genuinely green-skinned actors are being deprived of the chance to audition for the roles of Andorians or genuinely blue-skinned people missing out on the chance to play Orions. There's no need to change the skin colour of either. We recognise them in the ST universe by the colour of the skin. We recognise Bond because he walks down the gun barrel in the opening credits and later identifies himself as Bond, James Bond. If we can adjust from the ageing blond Roger Moore to the dark intense Timothy Dalton or from the smoothy dark lothario Brosnan to the blond puggish Craig, I think we can adjust to a change in skin colour.

Farrell might be a good Bond, Brosnan certainly championed him at one stage (possibly due to patriotism). Stick a wig on the youthful Patrick Stewart, yeah, he could probably have managed it. Statham is too working-class to be 007, IMHO, even if you stuck a rug on him.

It doesn't have to be Elba, in fact I think it's unlikely that Eon would replace Craig with an older man (though Connery was younger than Moore) but I can't see any reason why Bond can't be black.

 

[ITL]

Bollocks.

All of the actors who have played Bond look completely different to each other. There is no "Bondish" look, they all look Bondish because of how they inhabit the role.

You've so far given no grounded reason he can't play Bond except for "tradition", which is basically just another word for ingrained prejudice. It isn't a strong word at all, it's an accurate one.

So tradition means prejudice? Is that what you're saying? And that sounds accurate to you? Interesting.

"There's no Bondish look." Please, where have you been the past 50 years of the franchise.

So - we've already had a few Bonds who looked and sounded very different to one another with each actor giving us a slightly different Bond than before, but a change in skin tone is a step too far even though there's no reason he has to be white except for Because Tradition? Bollocks.

 

[EnriqueH]

^ You're welcome re the response.

I don't think the Andorian/Orion comparison is at all relevant, respectfully. Theyre all human actors under the make up. It's not like genuinely green-skinned actors are being deprived of the chance to audition for the roles of Andorians or genuinely blue-skinned people missing out on the chance to play Orions. There's no need to change the skin colour of either. We recognise them in the ST universe by the colour of the skin. We recognise Bond because he walks down the gun barrel in the opening credits and later identifies himself as Bond, James Bond. If we can adjust from the ageing blond Roger Moore to the dark intense Timothy Dalton or from the smoothy dark lothario Brosnan to the blond puggish Craig, I think we can adjust to a change in skin colour.

Farrell might be a good Bond, Brosnan certainly championed him at one stage (possibly due to patriotism). Stick a wig on the youthful Patrick Stewart, yeah, he could probably have managed it. Statham is too working-class to be 007, IMHO, even if you stuck a rug on him.

It doesn't have to be Elba, in fact I think it's unlikely that Eon would replace Craig with an older man (though Connery was younger than Moore) but I can't see any reason why Bond can't be black.

I shudder to think of Farrell as Bond, but anyway...

Maybe I'm old fashioned traditionalist...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

I do think Bond has a certain look to him, and Elba doesn't seem like it to me. If he gets cast, I may change my mind, and maybe I need to see a broader scope of his films, but I don't see it.

The gentleman who plays Brosnan's Bond's ally at the beginning of Tomorrow Never Dies, Colin Salmon, seems more Bondish to me.

Then again, a lot of people were up in arms about Daniel Craig being cast and he ended up being among the best actors we've had in the part.

I do like the actor's look and race to be consistent among main characters I love. Hence, my attitude in earlier posts in this thread that I don't want a Hispanic Blade, Asian Uhura or white Lando Calrissian.

I stand by my Andorian/Orion analogy because it's not about the actors. It's about the characters for me.

And that could be why some of us are disagreeing.

I wouldn't like to find Andorians green and Orions blue in the next Star Trek.

But contradictory or not, I've never minded when minor characters in the Bond franchise are recast.

I didn't mind Moneypenny being black and actually defended her casting in another board, M being a woman, Jeffrey Wright is my all time favorite Felix Leiter and was really disappointed he did not appear in Skyfall.

But then, recasting has ALWAYS been such a Bond thing.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I'm all for diversity and I love my (EDIT) ICONIC white, black, asian, green and blue characters equally, which is why I've said: I don't want Elba playing Bond anymore than I want Daniel Craig playing Shaft.

You're all for diversity, but you don't care for Idris Elba as Bond...?

Hmmm....

About Daniel Craig as John Shaft (or any other white actor as the 'black private dick')...I think Captaindemotion explained it pretty good:

Shaft is a Harlem private eye whose colour was intrinsic to his character. It put him at odds with the still-mainly white police force. A white John Shaft would have an entirely different perspective and experiences than a black one. There is nothing so intrinsic about Bond's character that relies on race. He needs to be a charismatic, tall, handsome and debonair British man who looks like he can handle himself in a fight. Elba ticks all those boxes.

First of all, thanks for an intelligent (and respectful) response.

Second, point taken on Shaft. What about Blade? How about Lando Calrissian? How about Uhura?

Third, I think Bond---for me---has always been about a certain look. Indeed in Bond themed boards, books, interviews and speculation, "Does he look Bondish to you?" Hell, even in described Bond casting calls with Broccolli and Saltzman.

I don't think Elba looks Bondish. Yeah, he's good looking, but so is Colin Farrell. How about a Colin Farrell Bond? Would that be good? Patrick Stewart has always been a handsome, debonair man. Would he make a good Bond? Jason Statham always looks great in his black suit, white shirt and black tie. Would he make a good Bond?

Blade is a vampire, martial artist. (And I don't know anything about him beyond the movies because I haven't read the comics.) But is there anything about him that has to black? He's a sword wielding martial artist. So does that mean Jason Statham could play him?

Patrick Stewart is kinda boring, and was an unknown until Star Trek...and probably is best known as Professor X today. Before Star Trek, if we're talking 30-40 years ago....he probably wouldn't have had any box office weight. (Too, Star Trek: The Next Generation and X-Men are both ensemble shows). Roger Moore was a notability from various television shows primarily "The Saint." (Lazenby was an unknown and a novice actor, but was mostly forgotten or not really acknowledged until years later. Although, he probably might have grown into the role. However, one could tell Diana Rigg - the leading lady in his Bond film - was the veteran).

As for Colin Farrell: He hasn't done a good movie in ages and he can't really carry a picture on his own.

(Sidenote: James Brolin and John Gavin, Americans, tried out for Bond...which would have been interesting. Sam Neil, a New Zealander tried out for Bond, which I could see him playing. Even Michael Gambon auditioned....which, today, I can't see).

Jason Statham as Blade? I don't see it. However, that's not to say Blade couldn't be a non-black person (e.g. Asian, biracial, white, non-white Latino or Hispanic, Native American) since he is basically a vampire who can operate in the daytime and night. Marvel and DC have always done alternate universes, so Blade can definitely be a different race or gender.

Idris Elba looks Bondish, and women do love him. And, there are many people who want to see him as Bond. He was intense as Luther, and I'm sure with the right screenwriters and direction he'll be an intense 007.

Bond....

James Bond...

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM[/yt]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Zp3eBsJc4[/yt]

 

[EnriqueH]

Maybe if he lost the beard?

And, Joel, please lose that "Hmmm" shit. If you got something to say, bring it.

 

[EnriqueH]

About Daniel Craig as John Shaft (or any other white actor as the 'black private dick')...I think Captaindemotion explained it pretty good

I agree and told him so, but what about Daniel Craig as Lando, or Kate Winslet as Uhura or Jason Statham as Kato? You studiously avoided all the other analogies.

 

[Captaindemotion]

@Joel, Sam Neill was born in the north of Ireland and raised in NZ. He played Reilly, Ace of Spies on tv, a real-life character who is believed to have partly inspired Fleming in creating 007. I think he'd have been a great Bond, though he himself says he wouldn't have been right for the role.

@Enrique, I really can't understand how you can be okay with Moneypenny and Felix changing race but not with Bond doing so. But to each their own.

 

[EnriqueH]

@Joel, Sam Neill was born in the north of Ireland and raised in NZ. He played Reilly, Ace of Spies on tv, a real-life character who is believed to have partly inspired Fleming in creating 007. I think he'd have been a great Bond, though he himself says he wouldn't have been right for the role.

Y'know, I've never been a fan of the idea of Sam Neill as Bond. He's not a good looking guy, IMO. He's a fine actor, but I think too understated. I saw his screen test and thank our lucky stars he didn't get the part.

@Enrique, I really can't understand how you can be okay with Moneypenny and Felix changing race but not with Bond doing so. But to each their own.

As I said, I like my main character to be the same race. It's hard to quantify. I guess it's hard enough changing actors every few years. Sulu and Uhura aren't major characters, I guess, but I guess I feel closer to them and would not want to see an Asian Uhura or a black Sulu.

I guess I don't like too much change!

Does anyone want a black Superman? Or a white Lando Calrissian? or an Asian Shaft? Since race is intrinsic to the Shaft character, let's make him another minority. Lets make him Hispanic (like me) or maybe Asian. Would we like that? I wouldn't. But that's just me.

 

[Captaindemotion]

About Daniel Craig as John Shaft (or any other white actor as the 'black private dick')...I think Captaindemotion explained it pretty good

I agree and told him so, but what about Daniel Craig as Lando, or Kate Winslet as Uhura or Jason Statham as Kato? You studiously avoided all the other analogies.

Or a female Starbuck, an Asian female Boomer? But it's hardly like Lando is an iconic hero who is recast for a new generation every few years, is it?

 

[EnriqueH]

About Daniel Craig as John Shaft (or any other white actor as the 'black private dick')...I think Captaindemotion explained it pretty good

I agree and told him so, but what about Daniel Craig as Lando, or Kate Winslet as Uhura or Jason Statham as Kato? You studiously avoided all the other analogies.

Or a female Starbuck, an Asian female Boomer? But it's hardly like Lando is an iconic hero who is recast for a new generation every few years, is it?

Yeah, I didn't mind a female Starbuck, but Starbuck is hardly an iconic character. He was originally, at least IMO, a feeble Han Solo clone. The character got by on Dirk Benedict's charm to an extent, but ever since I was a kid, I saw Starbuck as a poor man's Han Solo. I prefer the female Starbuck to the Benedict version. Boomer, same thing, hardly iconic.

Lando may or may not be iconic, I like to think he is, but Uhura certainly is. Shaft is iconic, Rocky Balboa is iconic, Kato is iconic, Batman is iconic. Starbuck? Not so much.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Enrique, there actually is a black Superman in at least one of the DC multiverses. I don't know if he still exists post-Crisis, but he is there.

As for characters like Shaft, Uhura, Sulu, etc.: It's already been explained to you. Race is important to those characters. Race IS NOT important to Bond. Only Britishness is. That's IT.

 

[EnriqueH]

I'm all for diversity and I love my (EDIT) ICONIC white, black, asian, green and blue characters equally, which is why I've said: I don't want Elba playing Bond anymore than I want Daniel Craig playing Shaft.

What if Star Trek 3 were released tomorrow featuring GREEN Andorians and BLUE Orion slave girls?

Irrelevant. Race is important to those other characters you mentioned. Race is not important to Bond. Only nationality is. There is racial diversity in Britain, so therefore a British character may conceivably be of any race.

I mean, remember when Colin Salmon's name used to be mentioned in every other sentence regarding Bond casting? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that Salmon wouldn't have totally owned the role? He even screen-tested for it back in the day, IIRC.

I'm not that familiar with Idris Elba, specifically (the only time I've ever seen him is in an episode of Law & Order), but if he can pull it off, I'd say let him.

Ok, with all due respect, you're not doing a very good job of reading my posts. At least not thoroughly.

A few posts ago, I said I thought Colin Salmon would be a better choice for the role.

I have a feeling a few people are so anxious to hit the "quote" button, forming pre-conceived opinions about what I'm trying to say before they finish reading, that they may be losing the context and exact meaning of what I'm trying to convey and here is a perfect example.

 

[EnriqueH]

Enrique, there actually is a black Superman in at least one of the DC multiverses. I don't know if he still exists post-Crisis, but he is there.

Ok, so let's recast Henry Cavill and put in Taye Diggs in the role. Diggs is better looking and a better actor than Cavill anyway. So let's do it!

As for characters like Shaft, Uhura, Sulu, etc.: It's already been explained to you. Race is important to those characters. Race IS NOT important to Bond. Only Britishness is. That's IT.

But like I said: Ben Kingsley, Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen are all British too.

What about a Ben Kingsley or Patrick Stewart Bond, say, about 30 years ago?

What about Pierce Brosnan and George Lazenby. They weren't British, but they were still cast. Why?

It's because there's a certain look or quality, (admittedly hard to describe), that made them good for the role.''

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ But it's unclear at times if your objection is to a black Bond per se or to Elba personally. One minute you're accepting that Salmon would've been a good 007, then you're saying that you want the character to remain white. Do you feel that any black actor has the Bond look?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Maybe if he lost the beard?

And, Joel, please lose that "Hmmm" shit. If you got something to say, bring it.

I did say it:

"Hmmm...."

About Daniel Craig as John Shaft (or any other white actor as the 'black private dick')...I think Captaindemotion explained it pretty good

I agree and told him so, but what about Daniel Craig as Lando, or Kate Winslet as Uhura or Jason Statham as Kato? You studiously avoided all the other analogies.

Daniel Craig wouldn't be good as Lando because that's not a part Daniel Craig would play. He usually portrays rugged characters.

Kate Winslet is so not Uhura. And, Jason Statham is soooo not Kato.

With that said: Star Trek has many different realities so we could see a white African Uhura or even an Africa-born South Asian Uhura. We could even see a non-Asian Kato with an Asian Britt Reid in some future Green Hornet film or television series.

@Joel, Sam Neill was born in the north of Ireland and raised in NZ. He played Reilly, Ace of Spies on tv, a real-life character who is believed to have partly inspired Fleming in creating 007. I think he'd have been a great Bond, though he himself says he wouldn't have been right for the role.

Y'know, I've never been a fan of the idea of Sam Neill as Bond. He's not a good looking guy, IMO. He's a fine actor, but I think too understated. I saw his screen test and thank our lucky stars he didn't get the part.

@Enrique, I really can't understand how you can be okay with Moneypenny and Felix changing race but not with Bond doing so. But to each their own.

As I said, I like my main character to be the same race. It's hard to quantify. I guess it's hard enough changing actors every few years. Sulu and Uhura aren't major characters, I guess, but I guess I feel closer to them and would not want to see an Asian Uhura or a black Sulu.

I guess I don't like too much change!

Does anyone want a black Superman? Or a white Lando Calrissian? or an Asian Shaft? Since race is intrinsic to the Shaft character, let's make him another minority. Lets make him Hispanic (like me) or maybe Asian. Would we like that? I wouldn't. But that's just me.

Shaft's blackness plays too much into the character. His stories are statements on the American justice system, the perception and treatment of black individuals globally, as well as black individuals like the gangster Bumpy Jonas (or Knock Parsons from the books) who perpetuate black stereotypes and stunt African American progress.

Enrique, there actually is a black Superman in at least one of the DC multiverses. I don't know if he still exists post-Crisis, but he is there.

Ok, so let's recast Henry Cavill and put in Taye Diggs in the role. Diggs is better looking and a better actor than Cavill anyway. So let's do it!

As for characters like Shaft, Uhura, Sulu, etc.: It's already been explained to you. Race is important to those characters. Race IS NOT important to Bond. Only Britishness is. That's IT.

But like I said: Ben Kingsley, Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen are all British too.

What about a Ben Kingsley or Patrick Stewart Bond, say, about 30 years ago?

What about Pierce Brosnan and George Lazenby. They weren't British, but they were still cast. Why?

It's because there's a certain look or quality, (admittedly hard to describe), that made them good for the role.''

Taye Diggs is too short for Superman, and - for me - doesn't look the part. Of course, not due to his race - I want to see a black performer as Superman someday - but because he doesn't have the gravitas that Superman should have. (No one has been able to duplicate what Christopher Reeve did in a live action performance, yet).

And, I already said I why I don't see Patrick Stewart as Bond 30, 40, 50 years ago. The same would be for Ben Kingsley. They don't have the 'good looks' you associate with the character. The 'fit' look that has Connery without his shirt, or Craig coming out of the water in briefs. Or even the look to do, or have us believe they can do, the action sequences like Connery in "From Russia w/Love" or Lazenby in "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" or Craig in his films...or even Dalton his films.