Who was protecting the Kitomer Confrence?

[Ithekro]

The securiy was likely to have no ships in orbit. No one there to shoot anyone. No one there to beam down. No one there that wasn't invited.

That or the Romulans were handling security with cloaked ships and just didn't care if the Federation or Klingons killed each other.

 

[Timo]

The place was teeming with guards, shown operating in pairs: apparently, the Klingon guard made sure that the UFP guard didn't do anything nasty and vice versa. We see a very nice establishing shot of this supposedly airtight security; the intent is clear.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch11/tuchd2127.jpg

Equally clear to the audience is that all the King's horses and men can do absolutely nothing to save the President, or the Chancellorette, or the future. It's up to Kirk and Kirk alone, because everybody else thinks the Klingons only need to beware the Feds and the Feds only need to beware the Klingons - when the truth is that they are in cahoots and can trivially shut down all the security measures as needed.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EnriqueH]

Are you talking about that establishing shot showing a couple of guys strolling by the nice lake?

Too far away to run into the building should chaos ensue?

It seemed serene, but it didn't exactly scream security.

It wasn't all that different from the establishing shot of Starfleet at the beginning of ST IV in San Francisco. Serene, maybe showing some activity, but I don't recall tension in that establishing shot that you're referring to.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Timo]

Too far away to run into the building should chaos ensue?

Apparently making good use of some sort of a device that protects the site somehow. The implication is that every angle is covered, using the best possible technology available - and if there isn't lots of screaming and tackling, all the better.

I don't see what else could have been done to convey the fact that the site is being guarded, even if by the exact wrong people. All that is within the power of Hollywood was done, and luckily it didn't stretch credibility. (A larger number of armed Klingons and Starfleeters in evidence? If anything could make the situation even riskier than it was, that would.)

Yet note that the conference room itself has people in grey jackets and blue sashes doing the honor guard thing on the flags at the walls; these people rush to protect the President while the Klingons form the wall around Azetbuhr. Remarkably, nobody carries beam or projectile weapons or even blades, not even the Klingons - and nobody rushes into the hall during or after the events, save for Kirk's posse barging in and Sulu's beaming down. Good security or bad? I'd say excellent, as this saved a lot of lives: had the people outside let somebody armed in, or had the people inside carried weapons, there would have been fatalities.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

This security thing is a bit of a minor plot hole.

....

Minor plot hole, but still.

Absolutely, it took me over 20 years to notice!

That or the Romulans were handling security with cloaked ships and just didn't care if the Federation or Klingons killed each other.

And for the Romulans providing security? That's just crazy, they are the ones that wanted the confrence to fail, they'd provide security by killing everyone. And they did care if they killed each other, because they wanted them to kill each other.

 

[Timo]

Yet both the Klingons and the Feds seemed to steadfastly believe that the Romulans were impartial in the negotiations, and an excellent addition to the conference. No matter how misplaced such faith, there really was no reason to suspect they would provide poor security - if and when they wanted both sides dead, it would be in their best interests to stay out of it and let all the killing take place exclusively between the main combatants. Attacking the conference would not be in their interests at all.

We don't learn exactly what the role of Romulus was there, though. The conference venue is oddly decorated: on the outside, UFP and RSE symbols are prominent but Klingon ones are missing, and inside the hall, UFP symbols dominate. Then there are the four colors: red for Klingons, blue for Feds, yellow for Vulcanoids (including both the Romulan and Vulcan Ambassadors, plus several pointy-years who smile broadly in the end and several who don't, flying both the IDIC symbol and the Romulan Raptor on yellow background), and green for a human-like group with an aurora symbol to their flag. There are eight blue-sashed guards or heralds in the hall but no red-sashed ones; the green-sashed sector of the hall faces Kirk's intrusion and actively tries to stop it, while the neighboring yellow-sashes do nothing but cower and run.

Did the writers or costumers themselves have any idea what the sash colors were supposed to mean? Did anybody figure out who owned Khitomer - Romulans or Aurorans? When did Klingons gain ownership, as established in TNG?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RunawayStarShip]

I'm going to lay out this crazy theory that General Chang was the one tasked with defending the conference (or at least he was supposed to...). In the TOS era, one ship was usually enough. The Federation President was probably assured by Starfleet (i.e. Admiral Cartwright) that he was safe, plus the Federation might acquiesce to Klingon demands due to the death of Gorkon. As for the Romulans, we know how much they actually care about their ambassadors.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And for the Romulans providing security? That's just crazy, they are the ones that wanted the confrence to fail, they'd provide security by killing everyone. And they did care if they killed each other, because they wanted them to kill each other.

Ambassador Nanclus was part of the conspiracy, but there's no evidence that the Romulans as a whole wanted the conference to fail. We actually have no idea how the rest of them felt about it.

As for security: The best kind of security is the kind you don't notice, that you don't see. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[trekshark]

The Federation trusted the Romulans so much they let one of them sit in on Colonel West's escape plan presentation to the president

 

[EnriqueH]

I have no problem with security you don't see.

But if the heads of state are at a conference right after one of their immediate predecessors was just assassinated, surely you'd want a VISIBLE security presence to deter any troublemakers from trying another copycat assassination.

A quick line by Admiral Cartwright saying something to the effect, "There will be no problems, Mr. President. Security has been arranged." would've helped. Kinda like how Tessio told Michael Corleone, "I can arrange security in my territory."

 

[f14peter]

I would have to agree with EnriqueH, as depicted the security was wretched.


Even without the recent assassination, security forces would insist on something more substantial when protecting a head of state. Within the context of the movie, you would expect an over-reactive level of security ... After all, what was the overriding theme of the movie? the overwhelming mistrust between the primary parties. The Klingons, leary of another attempt to decapitate their government and the Federation, already concerned about "more conservative elements" sabotaging the peace process, looking out for Klingons seeking revenge. If the Federation leadership believed Kirk and McCoy innocent, then it had to realize a conspiracy was in progress and would prefer to error to the side of caution.

I could buy into security being trusted to one of the conspirators and intentionally made lax to abet another assassination. But, like EnriqueH, I sure would have preferred that make obvious. Or perhaps an undisclosed in the film mutually agreed upon "exclusion zone" with nothing in near-orbit and the Starships and Battlecruisers keeping station farther away to form an outer security ring, and prevent any run-ins, misunderstandings or accidents between the forces. However, the was pretty lame as Chang (albeit cloaked), then Kirk in Enterprise and Sulu in Excelsior managed to make planet-fall and conduct open battle for several minutes without any reaction, from anyone. At any rate, nothing shown would have prevented an assassination ... the attempted sniper shot, a locally beamed in explosive to detonate in seconds, a ship warping in and initating a planetary bombardment with phasers, or any of a zillion other means.

This all said, I chalk it up to a plot-hole: Had to have the epic space battle show-down, and allow Kirk and crew to beam to the rescue ... one more time.

 

[T'Girl]

When President Obama attended the G8 meeting in Ireland in June of 2013, the US Navy parked two super carriers (and their accompanying fleets) off the Irish coast. And we're friend with them.

As far as the conspirators were concern, there was no real reason not to have a fleet presence around the planet, the assassin was going to be on the surface, in the building, a lone gunman masquerading as a Klingon.

So that's not the reason.

 

[Marsden]

I'm going to lay out this crazy theory that General Chang was the one tasked with defending the conference (or at least he was supposed to...). In the TOS era, one ship was usually enough. The Federation President was probably assured by Starfleet (i.e. Admiral Cartwright) that he was safe, plus the Federation might acquiesce to Klingon demands due to the death of Gorkon. As for the Romulans, we know how much they actually care about their ambassadors.

Now I like that!

It works on all levels for me, Chang would certainly in his official capacity be in charge of the Klingon side of security and as a conspirator he'd be assisted by Cartwright in convincing the Federation to go along with that.

But then:

I could buy into security being trusted to one of the conspirators and intentionally made lax to abet another assassination. But, like EnriqueH, I sure would have preferred that make obvious. Or perhaps an undisclosed in the film mutually agreed upon "exclusion zone" with nothing in near-orbit and the Starships and Battlecruisers keeping station farther away to form an outer security ring, and prevent any run-ins, misunderstandings or accidents between the forces. However, the was pretty lame as Chang (albeit cloaked), then Kirk in Enterprise and Sulu in Excelsior managed to make planet-fall and conduct open battle for several minutes without any reaction, from anyone. At any rate, nothing shown would have prevented an assassination ... the attempted sniper shot, a locally beamed in explosive to detonate in seconds, a ship warping in and initating a planetary bombardment with phasers, or any of a zillion other means.

Those are all good points going back to what I was trying to say in my OP.

Ambassador Nanclus was part of the conspiracy, but there's no evidence that the Romulans as a whole wanted the conference to fail. We actually have no idea how the rest of them felt about it.

I disagree with you, while you are technically right,
we have a history of how the Romulans have interacted with the Federation, which was uniformly hostile. "If we are the strong is it not the signal for war?" is not an attitude that would want the Federation and Klingons to patch things up, even if we pretend Nanclus was a loose cannon and not obeying his governemnt's wishes. The only thing I can possibly see preventing the Romulans from commiting the strike I mentioned is the possibility of a firm Federation/Klingon Alliance against them for the attempt. That would give any opponent pause.

 

[Timo]

When President Obama attended the G8 meeting in Ireland in June of 2013, the US Navy parked two super carriers (and their accompanying fleets) off the Irish coast. And we're friend with them.

But that's the exact opposite of the Khitomer situation! Imagine a conference held in Ireland in which President Reagan and Premier Rasputin discuss how to deal with the recent assassination of Gorbachev by US special forces in the aftermath of the Chernobyl explosion. Sure, both sides would wish to bring in security. But neither the parking of supercarriers nor the admitting of SEAL and Spetsnaz forces next to the conference venue would make any sense: the supercarriers would just be sitting ducks in the very likely scenario of WWIII starting (there being no sense in launching the air wings against Ireland!), and the special forces would be counterproductive to the extreme.

As far as the conspirators were concern, there was no real reason not to have a fleet presence around the planet

Sure there was. They were the ones who knew that the assassination assuredly would take place, and the war would start in a few hours. Everybody else might have believed otherwise and agreed to a prominent starship presence, but the conspirators didn't want to die - they'd allow for secret getaway vehicles and nothing else (while secretly from each other amassing fighting forces that would make short work of the other side and his getaway vehicle).

Although it should be pointed out that we have no idea whether Chang and the Klingons were involved in the assassination in any way. Killing of Gorkon had been a joint operation, but killing of Ra-Ghotarei might have been a Starfleet-only (or, more accurately, Cartwright-plus-Nanclus) scheme, intended to cast all the blame on Klingons exclusively. Chang would be chasing Kirk for completely separate reasons already, not wanting him to sing about what had happened to Gorkon.

The only thing I can possibly see preventing the Romulans from commiting the strike I mentioned is the possibility of a firm Federation/Klingon Alliance against them for the attempt. That would give any opponent pause.

Indeed, there must be a reason why there has only been cold war so far, and why it's now going to go hot. Something big must have changed. And this something could very well be the Romulans declaring they are now the allies of the Feds and enemies of the Klingons (to the Feds) / allies of the Klingons and enemies of the Feds (to the Klingons).

No need to get involved beyond that. The two sides would independently decide now is a good time to go to war, what with the Romulans abstaining. And Nanclus could just sit back and coordinate.

Again, an outside attack at Khitomer would be a welcome event, as it would probably prevent the UFP/KE war and possibly even start an alliance, no matter how short-lived, on avenging the deed. The only ones who wouldn't welcome this outside attack would be the conspirators who wanted each other to look bad, not some third party.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Recall that the original place for the conference was going to be Earth and that the Klingons were only sending one ship with the Gorkon on it through Federation space under escort from USS Enterprise. The Federation President offered to continue with the conference at Earth but the Klingons suggested something more nuetral in light of recent events. So they go to Khitomer. The one Klingon ship and likley one Federation ship leave the system to cool things down even more.

 

[Timo]

I wonder what would make Khitomer neutral enough...

1) It may be an originally empty world, with this conference center built there for this special occasion only.
2) It may be a Romulan world, as suggested by the banner on the building (but there's an equally prominent UFP one!)
3) It may have a native population - but if that's what the green-sashed folks are, would Klingons accept as "neutral" a world controlled by human lookalikes? Or are they a famous community of neutral pacifists?
4) It may be a world that has changed ownership several times in the past wars and is symbolically apt (plus nicely neutered by the repeated conquests).
5) None of the above might matter, and the one thing of importance is its location at a point of space where neither fleet can have the upper hand in case the war breaks out.

In any case, it's not an obvious location, or else the secret would be too difficult to keep. But the conference isn't so hush-hush that the negotiating teams would leave the groupies home - there are these banner parades and seemingly useless spectators and empty speeches for the supposed benefit of a greater audience and whatnot. In short, confusing enough to appear realistic...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

"I hate these filthy neutrals Kif! With enemies you know where they stand but with neutrals? Who knows! It sickens me."

 

[Ithekro]

If it was a Romulan world it would give a reason for them to attack Khitomer some 50 years later when Worf's parents were stationed there.

 

[Timo]

...But would the Praxis-weakened, Federation-appeasing Klingons be in a position to take it away from the Romulans in the first place?

Of course, Klingons might be highly motivated to do such a thing after learning of Romulan duplicity in the whole ST6 affair. A Klingon conspiring to assassinate the Chancellor? Par for the course, and perhaps even the mark of a great warrior. But doing so with Federation and Romulan help, while played for a sucker in a game the Romulans had rigged? That calls for vengeance. And since the Feds would be needed for mopping up Praxis, lashing out against the Romulans sounds like a splendid thing to do in the meantime.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Perhaps it was part of the the lead up to the Tomed Incident where the Romulans retracted from contact with the Federation less than 20 years after the Khitomer Confrence.