And Star Trek V failed because...

[Nerys Myk]

If there was no Shatner, there would be no Kirk. If there had been no Kirk, Star Trek might never have made it to TV in the first place.

Kirk without Shatner is Pike. And we know how that turned out.

Pike had one episode to give us. I really am not certain how Pike would have continued on, but we can't give a good evaluation because we have more of Shatner and less of Hunter.

I have always wondered what a Pike series would have been like as is darker, more brooding sense and introspection would have been interesting, at least to me.

In any case, I'm not sure it is a fair evaluation at this point.

Kirk and Pike are the same character. They changed actors and names, but not the character. Kirk is who he is because of Shatner. Actors aren't always robots who go where the director points and parrot what the writers write. They contribute to the characters development. Some even develop backstories for them to help in their motivation. Nimoy came up with the Vucan neck pinch and hand salute as a counter to what was on the page and to him wrong for his character. The writers respond to an actor's physicality, cadence and personality and nudge the character in those directions. Once Shatner was cast, Kirk begins to move beyond what was on the page and from Pike. In the first few episodes you can still see Pike's "DNA" in Kirk.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk without Shatner is Pike. And we know how that turned out.

Pike had one episode to give us. I really am not certain how Pike would have continued on, but we can't give a good evaluation because we have more of Shatner and less of Hunter.

I have always wondered what a Pike series would have been like as is darker, more brooding sense and introspection would have been interesting, at least to me.

In any case, I'm not sure it is a fair evaluation at this point.

Kirk and Pike are the same character. They changed actors and names, but not the character. Kirk is who he is because of Shatner. Actors aren't always robots who go where the director points and parrot what the writers write. They contribute to the characters development. Some even develop backstories for them to help in their motivation. Nimoy came up with the Vucan neck pinch and hand salute as a counter to what was on the page and to him wrong for his character. The writers respond to an actor's physicality, cadence and personality and nudge the character in those directions. Once Shatner was cast, Kirk begins to move beyond what was on the page and from Pike. In the first few episodes you can still see Pike's "DNA" in Kirk.

That's my point. We never saw Hunter's DNA imprinted on the role in the same way we have been able to see Shatner's imprinting upon the role.

I have always enjoyed reading Nimoy's behind the scene information as he worked and developed the character, including the neck pinch and salute, as you mentioned.

My point being that the show could have been different, and would like to see Pike's growth in the same way.

I find Shatner to be incredibly interesting, and energetic actor. Kirk is memorable because of his performance, and energy, but I have always liked Pike and his introspection and sense of command responsibility.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Possibly, but even from the start you could see what Shatner was bringing to the table. Hunter not so much. The "introspection and sense of command responsibility" are whats on the page and apparent in Kirk too

 

[CoveTom]

Clearly, if there was a template for the perfect Star Trek movie in a film from outside the franchise, it is Smokey and the Bandit... Just saying...

 

[Ssosmcin]

There is nothing about TTF that is redeemable... at all!

I don't know, man. I think the Jerry Goldsmith score is pretty damned brilliant.

Everything else is up for debate.

 

[CoveTom]

^ I agree. I think TFF was his second-best Trek score, after TMP. Come to think of it, I think his FC score is his third-best, his Insurrection score his fourth-best....

Maybe there's a pattern here.

 

[Vezner]

I almost hate to admit this because of how much this movie gets a bad rap, but I just realized today after watching it for the first time in years that I actually LIKE this movie. It reminds me of one of the original series episodes. That alone makes it worth watching. There, I've said it. Let the flogging commence! :P

 

[eyeresist]

^ Welcome to the Dark Side



... Where Star Trek is fun!

 

[Silanda]

I almost hate to admit this because of how much this movie gets a bad rap, but I just realized today after watching it for the first time in years that I actually LIKE this movie. It reminds me of one of the original series episodes. That alone makes it worth watching. There, I've said it. Let the flogging commence! :P

You're not alone. I'll admit that part of my soft spot for it is because it was the first Star Trek movie I watched at the cinema, but I genuinely enjoy it. If only it had better effects....

 

[Richard Baker]

1.Lousy plot where the ending was preordained in the first 10 mins, what were they going to have them do? discover the thing on the planet REALLY was God and the crew of the Enterprise was going to solve perhaps the greatest mystery of all mankind. "Well we found God and proved he exists" I mean where can you really go from there as a series if that was the case. Every episode TNG, DS9 and VOY when they were in
real trouble could have just said "Hey let's get God involved in this, after all we know where he is now and can just send him a subspace message asking for help."

2. Shatner's script clearly trying to make himself look like he was 35 years younger with all his macho shit (Free climbing El Cap.....give me a break. You know how many younger, stronger and experienced rock climbers won't even think of trying that) and whoever did his makeup should never work in the industry again. He looked like a freaking geisha is some shots.

3. Shatner also making himself look like he's the only rational person on the Enterprise where everyone else, including Spock to some degree, are weak minded fools who are just willing to abandon their oath and committments they've made to starfleet for decades not because some hippy vulcan can "Feel their pain. Still don't understand how every member of the crew, except perhaps McCoy wasn't charged with mutiny.

4. Silly pie in your face style jokes instead of the more subtle,
smarter humor we'd come to expect from Star Trek.

5. A fat, old Uhura doing an exotic fan dance. Couldn't they have paid Kathy Ireland or some other supermodel of the time a shitload of money for a cameo as an extra crewmember who went on the rescue attempt and then tell HER "We need a distraction, go and take your clothes off and dance around with fans." Don't think too many fans would have minded
that scene"

6. Stupidest Klingon ever in Klaa. Seemed to personally hate Kirk for some reason (like some extremely weak version of Khan) and wanted to beat Kirk and the Enterprise to show "He's the best" What was going to happen if he did? Was he going to be appointed leader of the Klingons or something for a completely unprovoked and pointless attack on a Federation starship .

7. Totally contrived plot devices like Spock having a half brother he never mentioned to Kirk in their 20+ years of friendship. A great barrier that noone seemed to have the slightest interest in exploring until now, especially when it didn't seem all that hard to get through.

8. Special effects done by some guy in a wearhouse in Jersey and, in some cases, you could argue looked worse than the effects on episodes of TOS. I think it had been pretty much established since "Star Wars" that if you're going to do a sci-fi film the effects had better be pretty good because that was what audience expected now. For God sakes Spaceballs had better SFX.

9. Absolutely no explanation as why the Enterprise-A wasn't working well. I mean it had been a little while since TOS crew took command and it still wasn't fully functional. The 1701 refit was a totally brand new untried ship in TMP and except for the warp engines, which they fixed pretty quickly, it had no problems. They were able to get it fixed up and working well after it got the shit beat out of it by Khan.
Why was 1701-A a total lemon apparently?

10. The fact it made the crew look they had no lives besides each other. I mean they get shore leave and all decide to go camping at Yosomite together. Don't you think at least one member might say "I haven't seem mom in a little while" or "I just need to get away from work and relax on Waikiki alone or try and meet a girl (unless your Sulu) for a week. Even TNG had enough sense to have crew members seem to need a break away from everyone once in a while and go away
somewhere without the other six tagging along.

11. Finally the fact it was a self indulgent, self glorifing tribute to the greatness that is William Shatner. I like Shatner and the fact he's always embraced the Kirk character and the opportunities it gave him, unlike Nimoy who bitched for years about being known as Spock despite the fact it brought him great fame, wealth and power and millions of wanna be actors out there would switched places with him in a second and,
until he mellowed out about it sometime in the 1980's, you would have thought Nimoy was gotten screwed over by Hollywood his whole life the way he carried on. I also like how
by many accounts Shatner seems to be approachable and generally good to fans and he's not afraid to be the butt of self deperecating humor as he's shown several times and he's generous with charities including the America Tinnitus Association, something he has and I unfortunately have in common with him. And he often has kids out to his horse farm in Kentucky to let them experience horse riding and raising. Plus the guy is an absolutely a non stop bundle of energy. He could have retired years ago and sat on his farm raising his horses and drinking mint julips every day, yet it seems every other week I read the news and there's some new project involving William Shatner, and the guy is freaking 80!!!!!!

But it's no secret that he has a high degree of vanity and an ego the size of the Enterprise and he's never been shy about making sure the spotlight falls on him and foremost even if his co stars suffer as a result of it (In his defense he's acknowledged these traits and says he just gets carried away with his passion for what he does and really never meant to hurt anyone) and he has engaged in high profile feuds with Doohan abd Takei plus all the cast, except Kelley as far as I know, have had conflicts and bitter feelings towards him at some point.In TFF he finally got the chance to officially call the shots and unlike Nimoy.ho strove to make the best pic possible and make Spock a part of the bigger story in his director stints, Shatner saw the chance to make sure he got to make Kirk look every bit the most awesome man in
history and he took it and absolutely ran with it.....and the results speak for themselves.

Other than that it was a pretty good film.

This pretty well sums it up for me- the only thing missing is that Shatner gave his daughter a cameo part on the Bridge and allowed her to have a stupid over the top hairdo in a grand show of self-indulgent nepotism...

 

[Nebusj]

This pretty well sums it up for me- the only thing missing is that Shatner gave his daughter a cameo part on the Bridge and allowed her to have a stupid over the top hairdo in a grand show of self-indulgent nepotism...

I think if one of the top problems of the movie is that a fantastically unimportant part which consists of holding an item and leaving is given to the director's daughter because the director thought it would be fun, then, it's a pretty low-problem movie.

 

[Richard Baker]

This pretty well sums it up for me- the only thing missing is that Shatner gave his daughter a cameo part on the Bridge and allowed her to have a stupid over the top hairdo in a grand show of self-indulgent nepotism...

I think if one of the top problems of the movie is that a fantastically unimportant part which consists of holding an item and leaving is given to the director's daughter because the director thought it would be fun, then, it's a pretty low-problem movie.

I did not say it was one of the TOP problems, it was just irritating.
The above issues enterprisecvn65 posted I would consider far more important

 

[Captrek]

I wonder what Medved would have thought of the original ending.

GOD: The journey you took to reach Me could not have been an easy one.

SYBOK: It was not. The Barrier stood between us, but we breached it.

GOD: Magnificent. You are the first to find Me.

SYBOK: We sought only Your infinite wisdom.

GOD: And how did you breach the Barrier?

SYBOK: With a starship!

GOD: And where did you get this starship?

KIRK: It's my ship.

GOD: And was it your decision to brave the Barrier?

KIRK: No.

SYBOK: He was reluctant.

GOD: Then your journey to reach Me began with an act of theft.

SYBOK: My mission...

GOD: ...is to obey My commandments. Thou shalt not steal!

(A lightning bolt strikes Sybok. McCoy verifies that Sybok is dead.)

McCOY: You didn't have to kill him!

GOD: You should talk, patricide. Thou (not I) shalt not kill!

(A lightning bolt kills McCoy.)

GOD: Non-believer!

(A lightning bolt kills Spock.)

GOD: As for you, Kirk, I am eternal, and even I don't have time to list your sins.

(Kirk dodges a lightning bolt and punches God in the face. God touches His lip and sees that He is bleeding.)

GOD: What the fuck?!!

KIRK: Behold a god who bleeds!

(The ground opens up and grabs Kirk. Kirk struggles but cannot move.)

GOD: You're impressive, Kirk, but you're not Me.

(A lightning bolt kills Kirk. God looks directly into the camera.)

GOD: What are you doing here watching a movie? It's the Sabbath, you should be in church!

(Lightning bolts from the screen kill everybody in the audience.)

MOTHER: YHWH.

GOD: No! No. You said I could have this universe.

FATHER: This has gone far enough.

(The landing party and audience come back to life.)

GOD: You always stop Me when I'm having fun.

FATHER: You're disobedient and cruel. We've told You before.

MOTHER: Time to come in now, YHWH.

GOD: But I don't want to come in, and I won't. I'm God, and I won't listen to you.

FATHER: Enough, YHWH. Come along.

GOD: But why? I didn't do anything wrong. I was just playing.

FATHER: We said, come along.

GOD: But I haven't finished studying My predators yet.

FATHER: This is not studying them.

MOTHER: If You cannot take proper care of Your pets, You cannot have them at all.

GOD: Oh, but I was winning. I was winning.

FATHER: They're beings, YHWH. They have spirit. They're superior.

GOD: No, no. You saw.

MOTHER: You'll grow up, YHWH. You'll understand. Now come along.

GOD: Oh, but you said I could. You promised. I never have any fun.

FATHER: Stop that nonsense at once, or You'll not be permitted to make any more universes.

GOD: Oh, but you saw. I was winning. I would have won. Honest.

FATHER: No, YHWH.

MOTHER: No, YHWH.

GOD: I would have. I would have. I would have. I would. I would. I would. I would.

FATHER: Captain, we regret that the life paths of yourself and your companions have been disturbed.

KIRK: Who are you? Who is God?

MOTHER: You must forgive our Child. The fault is ours for indulging Him too much. He will be punished.

FATHER: We would not have let Him intercept you had we realized your vulnerability.

MOTHER: Forgive us, Captain. We will maintain your life-support conditions while you return to your ship. Please accept our apologies.

KIRK: Captain to Enterprise. Captain to Enterprise.

SCOTT [OC]: Captain, we're receiving you.

KIRK: Beam us up, Scotty. We're free to go.
​

They changed it because the special effects budget was too small to massacre and resurrect the audience.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

massacre

the audience.

Depends on who you ask!

 

[Timewalker]

I wonder what Medved would have thought of the original ending.

GOD: The journey you took to reach Me could not have been an easy one.

SYBOK: It was not. The Barrier stood between us, but we breached it.

GOD: Magnificent. You are the first to find Me.

SYBOK: We sought only Your infinite wisdom.

GOD: And how did you breach the Barrier?

SYBOK: With a starship!

GOD: And where did you get this starship?

KIRK: It's my ship.

GOD: And was it your decision to brave the Barrier?

KIRK: No.

SYBOK: He was reluctant.

GOD: Then your journey to reach Me began with an act of theft.

SYBOK: My mission...

GOD: ...is to obey My commandments. Thou shalt not steal!

(A lightning bolt strikes Sybok. McCoy verifies that Sybok is dead.)

McCOY: You didn't have to kill him!

GOD: You should talk, patricide. Thou (not I) shalt not kill!

(A lightning bolt kills McCoy.)

GOD: Non-believer!

(A lightning bolt kills Spock.)

GOD: As for you, Kirk, I am eternal, and even I don't have time to list your sins.

(Kirk dodges a lightning bolt and punches God in the face. God touches His lip and sees that He is bleeding.)

GOD: What the fuck?!!

KIRK: Behold a god who bleeds!

(The ground opens up and grabs Kirk. Kirk struggles but cannot move.)

GOD: You're impressive, Kirk, but you're not Me.

(A lightning bolt kills Kirk. God looks directly into the camera.)

GOD: What are you doing here watching a movie? It's the Sabbath, you should be in church!

(Lightning bolts from the screen kill everybody in the audience.)

MOTHER: YHWH.

GOD: No! No. You said I could have this universe.

FATHER: This has gone far enough.

(The landing party and audience come back to life.)

GOD: You always stop Me when I'm having fun.

FATHER: You're disobedient and cruel. We've told You before.

MOTHER: Time to come in now, YHWH.

GOD: But I don't want to come in, and I won't. I'm God, and I won't listen to you.

FATHER: Enough, YHWH. Come along.

GOD: But why? I didn't do anything wrong. I was just playing.

FATHER: We said, come along.

GOD: But I haven't finished studying My predators yet.

FATHER: This is not studying them.

MOTHER: If You cannot take proper care of Your pets, You cannot have them at all.

GOD: Oh, but I was winning. I was winning.

FATHER: They're beings, YHWH. They have spirit. They're superior.

GOD: No, no. You saw.

MOTHER: You'll grow up, YHWH. You'll understand. Now come along.

GOD: Oh, but you said I could. You promised. I never have any fun.

FATHER: Stop that nonsense at once, or You'll not be permitted to make any more universes.

GOD: Oh, but you saw. I was winning. I would have won. Honest.

FATHER: No, YHWH.

MOTHER: No, YHWH.

GOD: I would have. I would have. I would have. I would. I would. I would. I would.

FATHER: Captain, we regret that the life paths of yourself and your companions have been disturbed.

KIRK: Who are you? Who is God?

MOTHER: You must forgive our Child. The fault is ours for indulging Him too much. He will be punished.

FATHER: We would not have let Him intercept you had we realized your vulnerability.

MOTHER: Forgive us, Captain. We will maintain your life-support conditions while you return to your ship. Please accept our apologies.

KIRK: Captain to Enterprise. Captain to Enterprise.

SCOTT [OC]: Captain, we're receiving you.

KIRK: Beam us up, Scotty. We're free to go.
​

They changed it because the special effects budget was too small to massacre and resurrect the audience.

People would have complained about remaking "The Squire of Gothos" but it would have been more enjoyable than the nonsense that was actually there.

 

[austen_pierce]

I liked a lot of the humor, but some of it missed me completely. Shatner's daughter wandering aimlessly around the bridge with Kirk's coat... that had to be pointed out to me years later by a friend.

Fixing the SFX would be relatively easy. Fixing everything else would not be. Klaa is a low point to the film. As petty as this sounds, I also disliked the baby-poop brown mission outfits. Why wouldn't they have all word the heavy duty uniforms worn by security personnel in EVERY other movie? Anywho, the list of things to fix is long and not just a matter of photoshopping the entire film. I can't imaging the expense it would take to make this a good movie.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I have to agree about the Landing Party jackets, or whatever term applies there. They really showed off the fact that The Original Series crew was out of shape and past their prime. Their outfits needed a stiffness to them, a crispness, if for nothing else than to mask their ungainly builds. The "V" notch in Kirk's turtleneck I never understood, outside of the fact that maybe Shatner felt strangled wearing the normal variety. Shatner's tastes were absolutely horrible and what McCoy had on ... it looked so cheap, like they fished it out of a Thrift Shop, or Good Will, or something like that. In fact, the costume design for STAR TREK V is pretty garish, overall, except when it applies to Sybok and his, uh ... gang, or followers, or whatever they are. His "people." Outside of the Jeopardy gameboard design for the ENTERPRISE-A bridge, I'm glad that nothing, too much, survived that Shatner introduced in STAR TREK V.

 

[Trek Survivor]

^ Welcome to the Dark Side



... Where Star Trek is fun!

I believe the appropriate response is "THIS".

Love this movie.

 

[eyeresist]

The "V" notch in Kirk's turtleneck I never understood, outside of the fact that maybe Shatner felt strangled wearing the normal variety. Shatner's tastes were absolutely horrible and what McCoy had on ... it looked so cheap, like they fished it out of a Thrift Shop, or Good Will, or something like that. In fact, the costume design for STAR TREK V is pretty garish, overall, except when it applies to Sybok

I don't even remember the costumes in TFF, except Sybok's robe and the Romulan's ear protectors. I think TSFS wins for worst costumes, with the horrible civvies the crew had to wear, and the ridiculous Vulcan outfits.

 

[PCz911]

The only thing about Trek V that I liked was the commando style raid on Nimbus 3, and that (at the time) I thought the Romulan ambassador was cute.

.

Lots of good arguments about why the movie was bad, so I thought I'd bring it back to A comment from page 1. Yes, a smoking hot actress. But a movie where the attractive actress playing the Klingon had to wear ear muffs. Huh? You can't even afford to give her pointed ears! Really? For a semi-major character That sums up the movie.