Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water

[Mr Light]

Excellent episode!

The first five minutes made me as happy as any other moment this season.

But then they brought him back. Oh well.

The mystery of the Nethersphere was absolutely engrossing and the skelatons in fish tanks was a great idea. The idea of the dead remaining conscious is another great one. (so that's not true then? it was all a ruse?)

They also completely fooled me when they revealed Missy was a robot. Oh! I thought. She can't be a Time Lady then. Heh. And then when she said she was the one he abandoned my mind again went wild. Romana in E Space? Susan? His ex-wife? His mother? While I was perhaps a little disappointed it was the obvious choice, I'm still very excited about it. Particularly the Master in command of an army of Cybermen!

I was assuming the body in the tank of the room Clara was in would be Danny. So that was a surprise.

 

[The Wormhole]

Moffat has a tendency (particularly since taking over as show runner) to write real slow paced and talky scripts that take forever to get to the point, and that's exactly what this was. And worse, I think Moffat even realizes this as I am choosing to interpret the Doctor's "get on with it or I'll hit you with my shoe" line to Missy's doctor as a meta reference. And in the end, nothing is really done with the story, it's 45 minutes of set-up with a "shocking" revelation at the end that a lot of people saw coming. Yes, I know, I posted in another thread that I believed Missy to be one of the many Clara's spread throughout the Doctor's timeline that somehow merged with the Great Intelligence, but a female Master was one of the leading theories and it was one of the first ones suggested by those who read the leaked script for Deep Breath in the summer.

And while it was pretty obvious all season that Danny's haunted memories from military service involved him accidentally killing a civilian, we now learn that it was indeed a child (well, more a teenager) that he killed. Why does it always have to go back to children on this show? It was the children on Gallifrey that gave the War Doctor pause which the Moment manipulated, the space whale's goal in helping Starship UK was to protect the children, and many other examples I'm sure. Danny could have easily have just killed an innocent adult bystander and still be haunted by guilt and self-torment. They didn't have to go and pull out the old children trope. Although, I will concede at least this time, having his victim be a child could play a part in what motivated him to be a teacher.

And so now the pieces are set for Epic Finale, with Missy revealed to be the Master regenerated into a female form leading an army of Cybermen through the streets of London.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Well, at least now we know.

Time Lords can switch genders. That particular argument's officially dead.

It's been dead since "The Doctor's Wife"

DOCTOR: There are no Time Lords left anywhere in the universe. But the universe isn't where we're going. See that snake? (The Ourobouros, the snake swallowing its own tail.)
DOCTOR: The mark of the Corsair. Fantastic bloke. He had that snake as a tattoo in every regeneration. Didn't feel like himself unless he had the tattoo. Or herself, a couple of times. Ooo, she was a bad girl.

 

[chelly]

I liked the episode. Clara didn't annoy me as much as usual.

Though I am wondering why Danny is pretty sure he is dead. I would think the guy asking the question if he killed anyone would be a partial red flag of something being wrong. Also a few other things, but then again he hasn't been around the doctor so he probably wouldn't be genre savy.

I liked the lead up to the reveal. I am looking forward to seeing next week's episode.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I liked this episode a lot. Cool eery setup for that moment where the water recedes and they're all Cybermen. That definitely made me jump.

Missy being the Master was always a possibility so it wasn't completely out of left field, but I'm not opposed to the idea. Now the mystery is what the Mistress has planned.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Watching it again, I'm reminded of Winston's advice from Ghostbusters: When someone says they won't kill you until you say something nice, don't say something nice!

I think it had to be the Master just because the plan is too batshit crazy for anyone sane.

Which still leaves open the Rani.

True enough. It would've been worth it if she had tried to disguise herself as Clara.

 

[Mr Light]

I was guessing that the bodies were in water because the cremated dead would be constantly aflame... but that was all bull, right? So why were they in water? Who was coming to view these dead people if it was all a Master plot?

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, at least now we know.

Time Lords can switch genders. That particular argument's officially dead.

It's been dead since "The Doctor's Wife"

DOCTOR: There are no Time Lords left anywhere in the universe. But the universe isn't where we're going. See that snake? (The Ourobouros, the snake swallowing its own tail.)
DOCTOR: The mark of the Corsair. Fantastic bloke. He had that snake as a tattoo in every regeneration. Didn't feel like himself unless he had the tattoo. Or herself, a couple of times. Ooo, she was a bad girl.

A lot of people have chosen to ignore that, or at least write it off as something unique to the Corsair and no other Time Lord could change gender. Now they have to accept it.

 

[The Wormhole]

I was guessing that the bodies were in water because the cremated dead would be constantly aflame... but that was all bull, right? So why were they in water? Who was coming to view these dead people if it was all a Master plot?

Couldn't reveal to the audience too soon they were Cybermen?

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Pretty good episode. At first I was rolling my eyes with what they were doing at the beginning with Clara, saying to myself "Why are they insisting on destroying this relationship even more?" then relieved it was an hallucination. After I rolled my eyes that TARDIS keys were like the One Ring.

First time Capaldi's Doc called her "my Clara." And the "Do you really think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" I liked that.

I agree with what someone said above, though, about this being The Master...again. Can't the new series have its own recurring villains by now? Can't we meet another clever nemesis that's not the same character from 40 years ago?

Ooo, Cybermen. Ooo, Daleks. Ooo, the Master...it's all getting repetitive by now. Yes, they're iconic in Who lore, but I'd like a fresh new enemy.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I think it had to be the Master just because the plan is too batshit crazy for anyone sane.

Which still leaves open the Rani.

Doesn't fit her M.O. The Rani literally couldn't give a damn either way about the Doctor, or anyone else for that matter - all she ever cared about were her experiments (mainly in biochemistry, which using Cybermen kind of flies in the face of). And she never sought out trouble, especially not the Doctor kind, only going full-on villainness when somebody got squarely in the way of her work.

"Incompetent egotist... [His schemes are] devious and over-complicated... He'd get dizzy if he tried to walk in a straight line." - The Rani concerning the Master

Can't the new series have its own recurring villains by now? Can't we meet another clever nemesis that's not the same character from 40 years ago?

Ooo, Cybermen. Ooo, Daleks. Ooo, the Master...it's all getting repetitive by now. Yes, they're iconic in Who lore, but I'd like a fresh new enemy.

Yeahhh, probably too much to ask of the guy who gave us the Weeping Angels, the Vashta Nerada, the Silence, whatever the hell was in 'Listen'...

 

[Photoman15]

Missy can still be someone else telling the Doctor she's the Master to throw him off balance.

 

[SeerSGB]

I was guessing that the bodies were in water because the cremated dead would be constantly aflame... but that was all bull, right? So why were they in water? Who was coming to view these dead people if it was all a Master plot?

The "water" is some sort of water or chemical that cloaks the cyberarmor. Only organic material can be seen when something is suspended in the fluid; that's why all you see is bones.

The cremated deadl's souls would just be in eternal agony; sort of like the guy screaming out cause he had donated his body to science. I guess the pain would stop once your body was ash; though why would Missy keep you in the system if you had no body to put your-reprogrammed--self back into.

 

[Mr Light]

I know the real world reason is to hide the Cyberman reveal, but what is the in-world reason? When they first showed up there appeared to be an entire industry revolving around people visiting their deceased loved ones. Was that actually happening or not? Was the water to hide the fact that the bodies were Cybermen from the visitors? Were people transporting their bodies to this place for this service? Does that mean this exists sometime in the future, but the invasion was happening in modern day via a Tardis?

 

[SeerSGB]

I get why they wanted to hide the cyberarmor. Don't get why only display bones to the families? Seems a bit gruesome.

Come on kids lets go see grandpa! HOLY SHITTT!!!

 

[chelly]

I am assuming it was just a big lie to get the doctor/tardis there. Ok that might be a bit flimsey.

 

[Stevil2001]

It seems to be a real operation in the present day-- Doctor Chang believed the Doctor and Clara were really government inspectors, and said something like, "Again?"

 

[intrinsical]

In my brain, several pieces of the puzzle has clicked into place. Here's a speculation on one thing I think will happen in the next episode.

Spoiler: Finale

Q: How does Missy collect all these dead people not just in the present, but also in the past (Deep Breath's robot) and in the future (Soldier woman in Into The Dalek)?
A: She's a Timelord. She has a TARDIS. Quite possibly she teleports out them at the very last second (ala something similar to Time Heist's "teleporter disguised as disintegrator thingy"). Missy then duplicates a body (without a mind) and teleports it in as a corpse.

Meaning they never died, every human being is still alive. Granted, most of them have already been cyber-converted. But the key point here is that Danny Pink never killed the child. Danny Pink isn't dead. There's a strong possibility The Doctor will save the child Danny thought he killed (too young to be cyber-converted), and save Danny too while he's still at it (he is too newly "dead" to be cyber-converted). Yay, happy ending.

 

[diankra]

I think it had to be the Master just because the plan is too batshit crazy for anyone sane.

Which still leaves open the Rani.

Doesn't fit her M.O. The Rani literally couldn't give a damn either way about the Doctor, or anyone else for that matter - all she ever cared about were her experiments.

Which would actually have made this fit with her: amoral experimenter, "Can't think why no-one thought of this before," etc.

Intrinsical: I'm assuming that St Paul's is actually her TARDIS. Aside from that explaining why the Doctor doesn't realise where he is till he gets outside, it has to be if she's 'harvesting' people from anywhere other than contemporary London,as she clearly is.

Side question: who is Seb? Noteworthy that he's only appeared in the Nethersphere, not reality (so he's dead, whereas Dr Chang was in reality, not the Nethersphere). Should be someone significant really (Oh, wild thought. Could he actually be Chang? So Missy killed him so he could keep serving her in the Nethersphere? Maybe not).

 

[The Wormhole]

Intrinsical: I'm assuming that St Paul's is actually her TARDIS.

I don't think the entire cathedral is her TARDIS, possibly just the door frame.