Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water

[Lonemagpie]

Can't believe there's no poll yet.

Well, that was pathetically fucking obvious. I mean, so fucking obvious that I so couldn't believe Moffat would be so fucking crudely obvious, and that one had to try to be as clever... But then he just pulls the crude and obvious a la the Tesselecta. Why do I bother trying, when "yeah it's the crap obvious thing" always turns out to be right? And where does this reputation for Moffat cleverness come from anyway? All he does is the fucking double-bluff; the obvious that's so obvious that you can't accept it cos you think he's going to do something cleverer. And we fall for it.

It's doubly a pity cos the rest of the episode was so good- it's about time DW did a proper mythic journey to the underworld episode.

Oh, and of course it would also have been better still if the Cybes hadn't been in the publicity, given how subtly they're brought into it, and the clever use of their theme.

Well, now that they wasted an hour to lead up to the so-obvious-they-shouldn't-have-bothered, hopefully next week will actually do something with it all.

 

[Captain Shaw]

Is it too soon that I laughed at the Steve Jobs joke?
I enjoyed the episode up until we found out the she was the master, I'm a bit board with the master and cybermen.
I wish they could come up with another great villain.

 

[SeerSGB]

• Okay so we've got Timelord tech in play.
• SO is this the Master as we know him from End Of Time, or a Matrix copy? Seeing has she (that's so weird to type) has a piece of the Matrix.
• Did I mistake it, but does this mean that Mistress has a TARDIS too; the whole bigger on the inside Cathedral and all.
• And the cyberman named Dr. Skarosa = Skaro? Davros?

 

[Green Lantern]

I thought the episode was great. Yeah I'd have rather she be the Rani but meh, at least Moffat's actually brought back my favourite villain, even if it was in a questionable form. Yeah it was kinda predictable but we all thought "nah, Moffat's trying to make us think the obvious" so it made us think harder. I wouldn't call it a surprise but I'd still call it a pleasant......event. Sometimes it's nice to just know what's gonna happen. Yeah I still wish she was the Rani but it beats nothing......sort of. At least Moffat hasn't used too much feeble "gender bender" humour so far.

 

[chardman]

Utterly brilliant, and the fact that it was kinda obvious doesn't detract from that at all, as far as I'm concerned.

Loled at the Steve Jobs line.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I agree with Lonemagpie - the twist was just TOO obvious, that Moffat had to be tripping the fans again - except he wasn't. Oh, well.

Still, a bloody great episode. Tension, suspence, great performances and genuine excitement all around. This reminded me of Day of the Doctor! Ah, it was good to feel that again.

I reserve this statement as retractable, because I don't know how I'll feel one the episode has settled in me, but... I do believe this is, so far, the best episode of series 8.

 

[Kemaiku]

Okay so we've got Timelord tech in play. SO is this the Master as we know him from End Of Time, or a Matrix copy? Seeing has she (that's so weird to type) has a piece of the Matrix. And did I misread it, but does that mean that Mistress has a TARDIS too; the whole bigger on the inside Catherdral and all.

And the cyberman named Dr. Skarosa = Skaro? Davros?

Kind of disappointed and confused as well.

The Master had his little moment of redemption and sacrificed himself to stop Rassilon in End of Time. Now simple back as the villain, being bad enough a problem.

But how exactly is he, sorry, she out of the Timelock when the last crack sealed itself last season severing their last link?

There better be one hell of a good reason for both if this is a "current" (for lack of a better word) Master and not an older life. In which case, wouldn't the Doctor simple inform her of her later escapades and deaths?

Bleh.

 

[chardman]

The Master had his little moment of redemption and sacrificed himself to stop Rassilon in End of Time. Now simple back as the villain, being bad enough a problem.

But how exactly is he, sorry, she out of the Timelock when the last crack sealed itself last season severing their last link?

Could be an incarnation of The Master from before s/he became the Derek Jacobi incarnation? After all, this is a time travel series, and River Song has pretty much shown us that characters meeting out of sequence does happen from time to time.

This story might be earlier in The Master's timeline than both his redemption, and the Timelock.

 

[Relayer1]

Yay - take that Pink ! Lets hope he doesn't recover.

'Mistress' was a bit too obvious. I was hoping for someone more unexpected. The Rani or Romana for example.

Good episode though.

Is it too soon that I laughed at the Steve Jobs joke?

No, he was a dick.

 

[intrinsical]

Whelp, this season we've had Clara taking on the role of The Doctor, a normally male Timelord now appearing as a female. It's Moffat's way of not so subconciously preparing the public for a female Doctor. I'm betting that the next time The Doctor dies, he's going to regenerate into a female body.

 

[Skellington]

Well, that was surprising. Not the reveal but the episode structure itself. Liked the return of the cybermen-in-tombs motif too.

Moffat seems to be going to the rather obvious well with the identity reveal, but it'll be interesting to finally see his take on the Doctor's traditional arch-nemesis. On the evidence of this episode, I think Michelle Gomez could make a fine addition to the Master canon. She has the classic Master tropes down pat and seems effortlessly charismatic. However, it seems that the RTD-era Master is pretty much being ignored; it should be interesting to see why Missy's persona is now back to her "factory settings", or whether this is a pre-Yana version.

Quite good episode overall, with leftfield storytelling and some really good lines. Looking forward to next week.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

The Master!!??

I have questions about Danny; however, I will wait until later for the answers.

 

[SeerSGB]

Missed chance: They should have brought back Tracey Childs (played the wife in Fires of Pompeii) to play Missy.

 

[Mitty]

Could be an incarnation of The Master from before s/he became the Derek Jacobi incarnation?

She had a line something like "Didn't you think I'd find my way back?" which obviously refers to what happened after The End of Time. Presumably with stolen Time Lord Tech, and I'm guessing a TARDIS as well.

 

[Starkers]

Seriously, whoever Missy was was gonna be an anticlimax for some people because every possible permutation's been discussed and considered by fans for the last few months. If it'd been River or the Rani (why?) I guarantee people would be spitting teeth again. Frankly the only way we'd have possibly been surprised would have been if Moffat had pulled some left field crap that wouldn't have made sense (Missy is Rose ooh).

Shame the cybermen couldn't have been kept a secret, loved the 3W/cyberman eye symbol, some parts of that were genuinely creepy, the "Don't cremate me!" line one of many examples, in fact at times this felt like Army of Ghosts for adults.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I thought it was fantastic. There were some elements in there that felt genuinely new for Doctor Who and all in all I felt it was excellent with a lot of slowly-building tension. I don't care if Missy's identity was predictable, it's Doctor Who, not Hercules Poirot. The only thing that matters is that the Doctor was surprised. Sends like Missy is what she's always been: a moustache-twirling villain with no motivation and no actual goal apart from being EVIL, which is a pity. I would have preferred it if we got a new villain.

 

[chardman]

Could be an incarnation of The Master from before s/he became the Derek Jacobi incarnation?

She had a line something like "Didn't you think I'd find my way back?" which obviously refers to what happened after The End of Time.

It could just as easily refer to just about any and every defeat that The Master has suffered at The Doctor's hands since he first appeared in the series. Heck, I'm pretty sure Johnathan Price utters something fairly similar in "Curse of the Fatal Death" when he finally manages to get out of the sewer.

 

[Reverend]

You know for a second there, I thought it was going to be Susan...I mean that would at least have been interesting, no?

 

[Starkers]

Apart from 75% of people watching going "Who the fuck is Susan..."

 

[Lonemagpie]

It doubly hacks me off that the early parts include a line or two that at least two people I know really will get a major psychological reassurance/revelation out of, and one of them will then be utterly turned against it because of that last line.

The problem is that Dr/Master slash subverts the intended relationship, whereas one being female and calling the other her boyfriend just turns it into heteronormative surface gloss for a cheap laugh... And it proves that Moffat's rep for cleverness is based on total bluff - it's as much an illusion as the world's cash reserves....