8x10 In the Forest of the Night (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!
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I actually brought this up earlier in the thread. This isn't some little girl who is slightly energetic and dosed up on Ritalin. Maebh seems to be suffering at the very minimum from thought insertion [1] (the belief that others are inserting thoughts into her mind, in this case the belief that Clara inserted a thought into her mind to look for the Doctor) which is a symptom of serious psychoses like schizophrenia.
From the episode:
Doctor: Who sent you for the Doctor?
Maebh: It was just a thought, it was just a thought that came. I think it came from Miss.
I'm sure some mental health organization will publish a condemnation of this episode soon enough, since it seems to validate schizophrenic delusions and might convince the mentally ill to stop taking their medication.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_insertion (unfortunately, more reliable sources aren't really available online, but you can read about it in a medical library if you have one handy)
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But the otherkins/headmates on tumblr will love this episode.
^
Don't worry about it. Everyone is going to magically forget it ever happened remember?
I was chewing that over on the rewatch. They could have hand-waved that one with it being some sort of physic mind wipe caused by the tree-spirits; they're the ones deliberaley wiping humanity's memories
Eh, it's hardly the first time the Doctor has been at a complete loss as to what to do, and seemingly given up. And it's also not the first time the show has ignored actions that have been taken in the past to save planets or people.
I just prefer to think that these are alternatives he already considered, but decided just wouldn't work in this case, for one timey-wimey reason or another.
I think the reason for that was clearly to help emphasize the fairytale nature of the story, and the idea of being lost and alone in the woods, as the characters frequently were. If there were thousands of other people milling about, that idea probably wouldn't have come across as well.
I don't know, I thought that was a really nice piece of dialogue. And it's hardly a new thought, that if we didn't have the ability to put things out of our mind like all the pain and horror happening in the world, or the awful things being done to innocent kids every minute of the day, that we'd be too depressed to get out of bed in the morning. And we certainly wouldn't want to bring a new life into a world like that.
So in some way you probably could say that there's a "power of forgetting" at work. And it certainly seems like a very Doctory way of looking at it.
That part was the one thing that bothered me enough to stop my enjoyment of the fun adventure for a minute or so. Not only she was told to stop taking her meds, we were told how wonderful it was that she was schizophrenic and that, see, when people have a disorder that gives them hallucinations it is actually a real thing and the voices exist. It didn't feel kosher.
I try to think how would I take that if I am schizophrenic and watch this. I want to think that maybe I will enjoy a tiny bit of fantasy where my condition is not a condition and is actually a wonderful thing, but something tells me I probably wouldn't feel that great about it. It's certainly not a topic to just toy about casually like that. There are plenty of better ways to present a person with mental issues in good light, and to inspire people. And there are plenty of actual examples of people misdiagnosed as mentally ill in history to choose from if that's the story that you want.
It is a shame that an actual biographical story like A Beautiful Mind had to be altered to tell us how Nash went back to taking meds, because the reality wasn't sending a good message, but when it is all about a silly fantasy? Well, then it's OK to tell us how the meds are terrible and are preventing you from getting the messages from the other world.
I thought the episode made fairly clear that Clara felt it would be better to get the kids back to their families than to let the kids go through the anguish of losing everyone they've ever known, and never getting to see their parents again.
Ultimately, as harsh as it is, saving a handful of school kids wouldn't have made that much of a difference anyway, compared to the billions who they wouldn't be able to save (and sorry, but with everyone lost within a gigantic, worldwide forest I doubt even the TARDIS would have had time to save them all).
All I know is if I was in charge I'd insist everyone called me Cobra Commander.
Of course, they aren't the only ones with COBRA: http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-consumer-cobra.html
The fairy tale aspect made me think more of the 11th Doctor.
Wow, I think it's kind of a massive stretch to say that the episode was really trying to argue that kids with serious mental disorders should not take their medication. Clearly the "voices" the Doctor was referring to were not meant to be those kinds of voices.
And rewatching the scene, the kids say she's only had these nervous tics and been acting strange since her sister went missing. Which clearly suggests that it's only a recent thing and only a result of the forest communicating with her.
This is what I was hoping for, but it wasn't really thought through and just thrown out there.
I hope they instead release a statement saying "condemning this episode would be validating the idea that we should be taking medical advice from a children's fantasy television show. Since we can all agree that would be insane, we won't be doing that. Enjoy your fiction for being fiction and rely on experts to be experts."
I was really bothered that Clara and especially Danny wouldn't notice that one of their wards with special needs had gone missing in the night. Hell, the kids didn't even notice. Then after casually seeking out the Doctor they don't even check on her or even verify that she's present. And I know the Doctor can be a dick sometimes but he couldn't help Maebh call her mom?
And after insisting the Doctor tell Courtney she's special Clara's going to say "OK, you know they're not really gifted and talented, don't you? I just tell them that to make them feel good."? I suppose that isn't strictly inconsistent, maybe she just cares that people tell them that but I thought that was kind of a nasty attitude.
In an ideal world, I would agree with you. But unfortunately, in today's world (at least in North America) people tend to believe far too much of what they see on television. For example, the "CSI effect", where people who watch the TV show CSI believe that its exaggerated portrayal of forensic science is real, causing problems in court cases where jurors demand unrealistic forensic evidence.
Even some posters in this thread have interpreted the episode as a criticism against "over-medicating" kids, as if an acute psychotic episode which is obviously causing great distress to the sufferer is some sort of normal part of childhood and should be left untreated.
^
Don't worry about it. Everyone is going to magically forget it ever happened remember?
I was chewing that over on the rewatch. They could have hand-waved that one with it being some sort of physic mind wipe caused by the tree-spirits; they're the ones deliberaley wiping humanity's memories
Heck, you've forgotten. There's a mass delusion that there's a fictional TV series called Doctor Who. Every time you start to remember one of these incidents, you convince yourself you're just remembering an episode of the TV series.
Why am I the only one who realizes this stuff is real? I guess I'm not taking the meds I should be.
I thought he was referring to the physical pain of childbirth.
I think the "power of forgetting" thing doesn't quite work unless there's something more supernatural in play. Yes, it's possible that "last time" people forgot everything but the memory of scary forests, which they put in fairy tales. But the last time was before modern recording devices (it may even have been before writing, they were ambiguous on that point. Certainly before widespread literacy and writing).
Although, even with supernatural forgetting, it'll still be an odd morning:
"Residents of London awoke to a surprise today as Admiral Nelson's statue at Trafalgar Square was found toppled. Authorities are baffled as to the cause at the moment, but inform people there is no reason to be concerned regarding the structural integrity of other public monuments."
Although, even with supernatural forgetting, it'll still be an odd morning:
"Residents of London awoke to a surprise today as Admiral Nelson's statue at Trafalgar Square was found toppled. Authorities are baffled as to the cause at the moment, but inform people there is no reason to be concerned regarding the structural integrity of other public monuments."
Meh. It's not a completely bad episode, the first twenty minutes or so are somewhat entertaining even if a bit "been there, done that." But when we get the reveal of the dangerous solar flare mere minutes after learning the trees are fireproof, it becomes very obvious the trees are meant for protection. But the episode drags its ass trying to makes us believe the solar flare spells doom that it makes the second half rather tedious indeed. And how does it take a genius over two thousand years old like the Doctor so long to figure out the blindingly obvious. This isn't a case where the Doctor is intentionally playing up his ignorance for comedic effect, as when he does figure things out, he seems genuinely surprised. "Doctor Idiot" or whatever it is he calls himself indeed. Worse, even Missy seems surprised at the outcome. Maybe she missed the revelation the trees are fireproof?
There's not really that much more to say about the episode. The kids were somewhat amusing, though the relationship between Danny and Clara continues to be grating, and it was rather disappointingly sappy that the little girl's missing sister miraculously turns up at the end.
Okay, so it's not the worst of the season, but it's not all that great either, and it stands out like a sore thumb after the previous two amazing episodes.
There's not really that much more to say about the episode. The kids were somewhat amusing, though the relationship between Danny and Clara continues to be grating, and it was rather disappointingly sappy that the little girl's missing sister miraculously turns up at the end.
Okay, so it's not the worst of the season, but it's not all that great either, and it stands out like a sore thumb after the previous two amazing episodes.
Maybe in the real world, but this is a world that's already seen tons of weird things and been through tons of alien invasions. So they'll probably find it a bit easier to move on from it. Especially with the forest having completely disappeared the very same day. Even if it was something you were curious about, there isn't any way to investigate it further, so people probably wouldn't have much choice but to gradually forget it and get back to living their lives.
Never mind Nelson's statue, what about the wolves and tiger that are now on the loose in London? And did any other animals escape the zoo?
Well, that's another odd thing. At least to RTD's credit, people knew they were living in a world with aliens visiting Earth. Moffatt retconned that with the cracks so as to at least take away that active knowledge (things are more a mystery once more). But they still want world-changing events without actually changing the world. People aren't "used to it" in the show. In fact, they seem quite surprised every single time.
That one's even easier:
"Residents of London awoke today to discover a number of London Zoo animals roaming freely throughout the city. The animals escaped from the Zoo after several of the fences were seriously damaged the night before. Authorities are investigating the possibility of the damage being caused by an extremist environmentalist group."
I am looking at the monologue in the context of the episode. The Doctor comes off not liking children ("I am not a child minder" and his treatment of Maebe Arden) and not liking the human attitude toward the trees, which can be seen as a war on nature. I don't think that the Doctor was referring to the pain of childbirth; I am thinking he was referring to the human tendency to have children, with parents being child minders. The Doctor I think was implying that being a chlld minder was as problematic as war. (Considering that this franchise began as a kid's show, and evolved into an adult show that kids can enjoy, this was an odd statement to make.)
There is this juxaposition of Maebe Arden' s mother, who leaves the safety of her home and travels on bicycle, to find her missing child and the Danny/Clara pairing and the Doctor who are too busy with their own issues to pay attention to the children in their care. This was raised in the episode where the Doctor said that adults are incapable of hearing to children.
Another point - so the Doctor didn't save his people or his world, as he states that he is the last of his species. So, what exactly happen to Gallifrey and his mission to find this planet? He has apparently given up this search, as now he is saying that Earth is his home.
Another point - I was watching a promo for this season. This Doctor said that he would rectify his past mistakes. I can't remember an instance of him doing this very thing this season.
I didn't think Maebe Arden was schizophrenic. She was in communication with the life force of the Earth, and was able to think a global forest into existence. What wasn't learned, and was glossed over, was how she knew, before the astronomers, that the Earth was facing a life-threatening solar flare. The adults assumed that she was suffering from delusions and placed her on medication. I think it is more scary that Maebe can think her sister into re-existence. Her sister didn't seem overly happy to see her. Did Maebe think her sister into non-existence? This has me thinking of the episode "It's a Good Life" from the Twilight Zone. (On top, I don't think the writer has an understanding of what special needs children were. I was a special needs child - I am autistic with a speech impairment and, although I had teachers who taught me Maths and English, I had one special needs teacher, Ms. Campbell, who helped me with learning difficulties. The children who went to the museum would have been with a special needs teacher, not their English or Maths teacher.)
There is this juxaposition of Maebe Arden' s mother, who leaves the safety of her home and travels on bicycle, to find her missing child and the Danny/Clara pairing and the Doctor who are too busy with their own issues to pay attention to the children in their care. This was raised in the episode where the Doctor said that adults are incapable of hearing to children.
Another point - so the Doctor didn't save his people or his world, as he states that he is the last of his species. So, what exactly happen to Gallifrey and his mission to find this planet? He has apparently given up this search, as now he is saying that Earth is his home.
Another point - I was watching a promo for this season. This Doctor said that he would rectify his past mistakes. I can't remember an instance of him doing this very thing this season.
I didn't think Maebe Arden was schizophrenic. She was in communication with the life force of the Earth, and was able to think a global forest into existence. What wasn't learned, and was glossed over, was how she knew, before the astronomers, that the Earth was facing a life-threatening solar flare. The adults assumed that she was suffering from delusions and placed her on medication. I think it is more scary that Maebe can think her sister into re-existence. Her sister didn't seem overly happy to see her. Did Maebe think her sister into non-existence? This has me thinking of the episode "It's a Good Life" from the Twilight Zone. (On top, I don't think the writer has an understanding of what special needs children were. I was a special needs child - I am autistic with a speech impairment and, although I had teachers who taught me Maths and English, I had one special needs teacher, Ms. Campbell, who helped me with learning difficulties. The children who went to the museum would have been with a special needs teacher, not their English or Maths teacher.)
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