5 Things We Want to See in the next Movie according to PopMech

[Malaika]

well, Uhura actually helped him get in his volcano suit without a fuss and she was supportive and even joked with him. You see her concern for him only when he basically can't see it (when he's finally lowered in the volcano). There is no example in either movie where she ever stopped Spock from doing his job and duty (a point also made on reverse when you can see he is concerned himself when she asks Kirk to let her speak with the klingons but he doesn't stop her) at the very least she might stop him to ask what he's doing (see in the first movie when he wanted to save his parents and left his post to do that) but it doesn't seem to me that Uhura has a problem with Spock doing his work, regardless the fact that as his SO it's only natural for her to have an emotional reaction about the idea of him possibly dying. Still, it seems to me that even when Spock was in the volcano, she still did her job on the bridge while Scotty and McCoy were exactly doing what?
As an officer she also proved she's capable to put herself in dangerous situations to help her crew mates (both with the klingons and then later when she stopped Khan from killing Spock)

Obviously, her problem was not Spock putting himself in danger doing his duty. It was his weird behavior in the volcano and him being so adamant that they had to leave him there to die. His apparent acceptance of his death as if his life was nothing at all. No word for her, no goodbye. And when they save him, no thanks. He actually seemed annoyed they saved him. Uhura implied she had tried to talk with him about this and the fact that he seemed to have a death wish.. but he refused to talk about it.
I don't know how someone can really think that his behavior wasn't at the very least a bit weird. He was obsessed about the prime directive, and yet his own behavior went against that rule when he interfered with the planet by stopping the volcano.
He was willing to die to save these people (in the way he couldn't save his cit Abrams) but he wasn't willing to use 'technicalities' to let the enteprise find a way to save him and from their pov he showed no sign that he cared to live, at all.
That behavior was not heroic, unlike Kirk in the end Spock was a given a choice to save both the people and himself and HE didn't want to take it.

that Spock had a death wish/ptsd was widely implied in the comics too where he keeps being too impulsive in the missions and he seems to be uncaring about his life. Uhura noticed that and knew that he also had nightmares about vulcan but he was on denial and refused to acknowledge his state (again, that's more human than anything here) he promised her to be more careful and rational and then the nibiru accident happened..

 

[Commishsleer]

that Spock had a death wish/ptsd was widely implied in the comics too where he keeps being too impulsive in the missions and he seems to be uncaring about his life. Uhura noticed that and knew that he also had nightmares about vulcan but he was on denial and refused to acknowledge his state (again, that's more human than anything here) he promised her to be more careful and rational and then the nibiru accident happened..

I didn't read the comics so I don't get this background.

If so I might have more sympathy for Uhura's position. But since I didn't read them (and I shouldn't have to) I didn't get Uhura's side of the argument. Perhaps a few lines in the script might have cleared things up.

 

[xavier]

well, Uhura actually helped him get in his volcano suit without a fuss and she was supportive and even joked with him. You see her concern for him only when he basically can't see it (when he's finally lowered in the volcano). There is no example in either movie where she ever stopped Spock from doing his job and duty (a point also made on reverse when you can see he is concerned himself when she asks Kirk to let her speak with the klingons but he doesn't stop her) at the very least she might stop him to ask what he's doing (see in the first movie when he wanted to save his parents and left his post to do that) but it doesn't seem to me that Uhura has a problem with Spock doing his work, regardless the fact that as his SO it's only natural for her to have an emotional reaction about the idea of him possibly dying. Still, it seems to me that even when Spock was in the volcano, she still did her job on the bridge while Scotty and McCoy were exactly doing what?
As an officer she also proved she's capable to put herself in dangerous situations to help her crew mates (both with the klingons and then later when she stopped Khan from killing Spock)

Obviously, her problem was not Spock putting himself in danger doing his duty. It was his weird behavior in the volcano and him being so adamant that they had to leave him there to die. His apparent acceptance of his death as if his life was nothing at all. No word for her, no goodbye. And when they save him, no thanks. He actually seemed annoyed they saved him. Uhura implied she had tried to talk with him about this and the fact that he seemed to have a death wish.. but he refused to talk about it.
I don't know how someone can really think that his behavior wasn't at the very least a bit weird. He was obsessed about the prime directive, and yet his own behavior went against that rule when he interfered with the planet by stopping the volcano.
He was willing to die to save these people (in the way he couldn't save his cit Abrams) but he wasn't willing to use 'technicalities' to let the enteprise find a way to save him and from their pov he showed no sign that he cared to live, at all.
That behavior was not heroic, unlike Kirk in the end Spock was a given a choice to save both the people and himself and HE didn't want to take it.

that Spock had a death wish/ptsd was widely implied in the comics too where he keeps being too impulsive in the missions and he seems to be uncaring about his life. Uhura noticed that and knew that he also had nightmares about vulcan but he was on denial and refused to acknowledge his state (again, that's more human than anything here) he promised her to be more careful and rational and then the nibiru accident happened..

I thought the comics where not canon. you would have to be so obsessed the romance know every tiny bit of it to include the comics in your arguments. I read the comics but even I know they are not canon in the sense that paramount can just ignore everything that happened in the comics just look at what disney did to the star wars expanded universe.

They said the comics and novels are not canon. so you cant use the comic storyline to justify anything that spock or uhura did. we can only judge from the film and I dont think the romance was handled half as good as it was in the first film but then again I am not that big of a fan of star trek into darkness.

 

[urbandefault]

well ...

DANG!

Short paragraphs, please!

This stuff is hard enough to read at my "advanced" age, and Retinox V won't be available for about 300 years.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Perhaps a few lines in the script might have cleared things up.

It's ever the case, isn't it? You'd think with ALL of the pairs of eyes that are reviewing Big Event Movies like these, due to cost, franchise consideration and so on, that this wouldn't be a problem, anymore. But despite all of that going over, these issues of "a line of dialogue would've helped" keep cropping up ...

 

[M'Sharak]

[...]

I thought the comics where not canon. you would have to be so obsessed the romance know every tiny bit of it to include the comics in your arguments.

(emphasis mine)

Comics aren't canon, and xavier, I'm sure I've asked you before to refrain from getting personal. The part I've placed in bold was completely unnecessary—included solely for the purpose of taking a poke at another poster—and I do not want to see anything like it from you again.

 

[Malaika]

You don't need to be 'obsessed' about the romance to pay attention to the story as presented in the comics, that Orci said are as canon as you can get outside of the movies. The comics are presented with the purpose of giving us more clues about what happens in the movies. I'm surely not the only one who mentioned them in this board. But I guess xavier was having one of her moments... Peace and love.

Eta: Btw, I didn't say that the comics approved by Orci that had clues about the movie are canon. The fact that even those support my argument is merely a plus or ps.
They have pretty much the same validity of any other behind the scenes stuff like interviews and such.

 

[fireproof78]

Seems to me like Kirk and Uhura feel like they need to say that Spock should be more human for them to like him.
So really how different are they from the bullies on Vulcan tormenting Spock because he isn't Vulcan enough?

I never get Uhura's problem with Spock. If she doesn't like him then she should get another boyfriend.

If Kirk wants a First Officer who lies on reports then he should get someone else. I don't think 'teasing' involves Kirk making racist remarks to Spock. Spock could just go to New Vulcan to live if he wanted to be 'teased' with racist remarks.

Uhura has concerns that her boyfriend would rather die and doesn't want to talk to her about it. That is a point of discussion in any relationship. I don't see it as unreasonable to not discuss the possibility of death on a Starfleet episode, but Spock is reporting a desire to die. Um, that is concerning regardless of racial tensions. It isn't that they want him to be more human, but they want to understand him. That isn't always easy, and can make relationships far more tenuous if there is someone who looks at things from a strictly logical point of view.

Kirk doesn't want Spock to lie, on the face of it. Kirk wants Spock to be loyal to him first, because that is how Kirk is loyal to Spock. Kirk is loyal to a fault, putting friendship before duty, while Spock is the opposite, putting his duty to Starfleet above all else. It's a conflict, and to me, is what makes the relationship interesting.

Also, how are the racial remarks, and you'll forgive if I don't remember all of them, different from McCoy's teasing in TOS?

I don't see where Spock was showing a death risk. Were was he reporting a desire to die? He was risking his life to save 'the many'. That's what Starfleet Officers do.
Was Kirk showing a death wish when he zoomed between the Enterprise and the Vengeance, when he went into the Warp Core, were Carol Marcus and McCoy showing death wishes by disarming a missile?

Is Star Trek 3 going to have Kirk asking Uhura if Spock can go on risky missions? I mean he has a girlfriend to think of. Perhaps Kirk can send a less loved officer on those important missions even if Spock is the best person for the job.

And it seemed to be OK if Uhura approved the dangerous mission. She actually sent Spock to track down Khan. Perhaps she should be First Officer and decide if the mission is important enough to risk her boyfriend.

I don't mind Kirk's frustration with Spock. I just don't want to see him gossiping about it with his girlfriend or making racist comments. This isn't some high school teenage flick. How old is Kirk anyway?

And I thought this is the 21st century. I thought racist remarks are not acceptable nowadays but I see that this movie (and ST09) shows I'm wrong. I would have thought if TOS were made now McCoy wouldn't be making those racist remarks. Perhaps I'm too PC but I don't think they were McCoys finest lines but like nuKirk they don't indicate true racism but frustration.

Yes, this is a 21st century film, based upon a 1960s TV show, with some things that don't always translate well, but are kept because they are part of the original. I guess it doesn't bother me because it was a part of TOS

As you said, it isn't true racism, but a frustration and a lack of understanding as to Spock's point of view.

My feeling about Spock was when he expressed a desire to never feel the way he did when Vulcan was destroyed, and how that impacted his life. It isn't that he wasn't doing his duty, and recognizing the possibility that a mission might kill him. It is more that he would not express his attitude towards death to anyone. His choice to not feel was misunderstood by his shipmates as indifference towards his own life, that his life did not matter.

For me, it doesn't have to be explicitly stated to understand the impact of words not said in a relationship. Spock's apparent indifference to his life, whether he lived or died, can be taken to mean a death wish. I'm not expressing it well, but that was how I took it. That Spock wanted to die, and didn't care about Uhura or their relationship, not that he might die in the line of duty-that he wanted to die and did not care about living any more. Again, my impression.

I'm rewatching the film but I'm not finding a whole lot of racist comments towards Spock, nothing that I wouldn't see in TOS. I'm not saying I'm not offended, just that I'm trying to find what point I should be offended by.

 

[Commishsleer]

Uhura has concerns that her boyfriend would rather die and doesn't want to talk to her about it. That is a point of discussion in any relationship. I don't see it as unreasonable to not discuss the possibility of death on a Starfleet episode, but Spock is reporting a desire to die. Um, that is concerning regardless of racial tensions. It isn't that they want him to be more human, but they want to understand him. That isn't always easy, and can make relationships far more tenuous if there is someone who looks at things from a strictly logical point of view.

Kirk doesn't want Spock to lie, on the face of it. Kirk wants Spock to be loyal to him first, because that is how Kirk is loyal to Spock. Kirk is loyal to a fault, putting friendship before duty, while Spock is the opposite, putting his duty to Starfleet above all else. It's a conflict, and to me, is what makes the relationship interesting.

Also, how are the racial remarks, and you'll forgive if I don't remember all of them, different from McCoy's teasing in TOS?

I don't see where Spock was showing a death risk. Were was he reporting a desire to die? He was risking his life to save 'the many'. That's what Starfleet Officers do.
Was Kirk showing a death wish when he zoomed between the Enterprise and the Vengeance, when he went into the Warp Core, were Carol Marcus and McCoy showing death wishes by disarming a missile?

Is Star Trek 3 going to have Kirk asking Uhura if Spock can go on risky missions? I mean he has a girlfriend to think of. Perhaps Kirk can send a less loved officer on those important missions even if Spock is the best person for the job.

And it seemed to be OK if Uhura approved the dangerous mission. She actually sent Spock to track down Khan. Perhaps she should be First Officer and decide if the mission is important enough to risk her boyfriend.

I don't mind Kirk's frustration with Spock. I just don't want to see him gossiping about it with his girlfriend or making racist comments. This isn't some high school teenage flick. How old is Kirk anyway?

And I thought this is the 21st century. I thought racist remarks are not acceptable nowadays but I see that this movie (and ST09) shows I'm wrong. I would have thought if TOS were made now McCoy wouldn't be making those racist remarks. Perhaps I'm too PC but I don't think they were McCoys finest lines but like nuKirk they don't indicate true racism but frustration.

Yes, this is a 21st century film, based upon a 1960s TV show, with some things that don't always translate well, but are kept because they are part of the original. I guess it doesn't bother me because it was a part of TOS

As you said, it isn't true racism, but a frustration and a lack of understanding as to Spock's point of view.

My feeling about Spock was when he expressed a desire to never feel the way he did when Vulcan was destroyed, and how that impacted his life. It isn't that he wasn't doing his duty, and recognizing the possibility that a mission might kill him. It is more that he would not express his attitude towards death to anyone. His choice to not feel was misunderstood by his shipmates as indifference towards his own life, that his life did not matter.

For me, it doesn't have to be explicitly stated to understand the impact of words not said in a relationship. Spock's apparent indifference to his life, whether he lived or died, can be taken to mean a death wish. I'm not expressing it well, but that was how I took it. That Spock wanted to die, and didn't care about Uhura or their relationship, not that he might die in the line of duty-that he wanted to die and did not care about living any more. Again, my impression.

I'm rewatching the film but I'm not finding a whole lot of racist comments towards Spock, nothing that I wouldn't see in TOS. I'm not saying I'm not offended, just that I'm trying to find what point I should be offended by.

I just don't see any 'death wish' by Spock in STID - certainly no more than Kirk. Yes I know Kirk cried when he was dying(and I don't blame him) but Spock is a Vulcan and he's seen and felt the death of billions. I don't see why he should react like a human.

Spock was prepared to die for the PD, something he, Kirk and McCoy had been prepared to do in TOS many times. Something I assume that Picard, Riker, Janeway would also have been prepared to do. Not because they were suicidal. But because they were big darn heroes.
And really it had nothing to do with Uhura. And if he's hesitating in doing his job because he's thinking of her maybe he should give up his dangerous profession.

And there's certainly more racism and sexism in TOS than in nuTrek. I just don't think its appropriate for there to be any racism or sexism in nuTrek. Or as little as possible. Its not the 60s any more.
Or maybe I just don't have a sense of humour.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't see where Spock was showing a death risk. Were was he reporting a desire to die? He was risking his life to save 'the many'. That's what Starfleet Officers do.
Was Kirk showing a death wish when he zoomed between the Enterprise and the Vengeance, when he went into the Warp Core, were Carol Marcus and McCoy showing death wishes by disarming a missile?

Is Star Trek 3 going to have Kirk asking Uhura if Spock can go on risky missions? I mean he has a girlfriend to think of. Perhaps Kirk can send a less loved officer on those important missions even if Spock is the best person for the job.

And it seemed to be OK if Uhura approved the dangerous mission. She actually sent Spock to track down Khan. Perhaps she should be First Officer and decide if the mission is important enough to risk her boyfriend.

I don't mind Kirk's frustration with Spock. I just don't want to see him gossiping about it with his girlfriend or making racist comments. This isn't some high school teenage flick. How old is Kirk anyway?

And I thought this is the 21st century. I thought racist remarks are not acceptable nowadays but I see that this movie (and ST09) shows I'm wrong. I would have thought if TOS were made now McCoy wouldn't be making those racist remarks. Perhaps I'm too PC but I don't think they were McCoys finest lines but like nuKirk they don't indicate true racism but frustration.

Yes, this is a 21st century film, based upon a 1960s TV show, with some things that don't always translate well, but are kept because they are part of the original. I guess it doesn't bother me because it was a part of TOS

As you said, it isn't true racism, but a frustration and a lack of understanding as to Spock's point of view.

My feeling about Spock was when he expressed a desire to never feel the way he did when Vulcan was destroyed, and how that impacted his life. It isn't that he wasn't doing his duty, and recognizing the possibility that a mission might kill him. It is more that he would not express his attitude towards death to anyone. His choice to not feel was misunderstood by his shipmates as indifference towards his own life, that his life did not matter.

For me, it doesn't have to be explicitly stated to understand the impact of words not said in a relationship. Spock's apparent indifference to his life, whether he lived or died, can be taken to mean a death wish. I'm not expressing it well, but that was how I took it. That Spock wanted to die, and didn't care about Uhura or their relationship, not that he might die in the line of duty-that he wanted to die and did not care about living any more. Again, my impression.

I'm rewatching the film but I'm not finding a whole lot of racist comments towards Spock, nothing that I wouldn't see in TOS. I'm not saying I'm not offended, just that I'm trying to find what point I should be offended by.

I just don't see any 'death wish' by Spock in STID - certainly no more than Kirk. Yes I know Kirk cried when he was dying(and I don't blame him) but Spock is a Vulcan and he's seen and felt the death of billions. I don't see why he should react like a human.

Spock was prepared to die for the PD, something he, Kirk and McCoy had been prepared to do in TOS many times. Something I assume that Picard, Riker, Janeway would also have been prepared to do. Not because they were suicidal. But because they were big darn heroes.
And really it had nothing to do with Uhura. And if he's hesitating in doing his job because he's thinking of her maybe he should give up his dangerous profession.

And there's certainly more racism and sexism in TOS than in nuTrek. I just don't think its appropriate for there to be any racism or sexism in nuTrek. Or as little as possible. Its not the 60s any more.
Or maybe I just don't have a sense of humour.

Well, I've been accused of not having a sense of humor either, perhaps that is the problem

Unfortunately, when you have a film that is inspired by a 60s TV show, some of that vibe (for lack of a better word ATM) is going to come across, both in speech and in mannerisms, and production values. It may not be appropriate, but neither are skirts as space uniforms, but that is still present.

As for Spock's death wish, that was just how I took it. Obviously, your mileage will vary.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Into Darkness lacked emotional connections

What film did they watch?

They weren't watching, just texting during the movie and dozing off, I reckon.

 

[xavier]

do we know the date of this film release? i hope its either july, august or November.

march-june is just too crowded with superhero films.