"New" miniatures of "old" ships...

[MGagen]

What never made any sense either as originally shot or as seen in TOS-R or TaT is the Enterprise orbiting the station. The station certainly can't have that much of a gravity well to be holding a ship in orbit so the ship would be making constant corrections to fly around the station in a rather tight circle. Seems like an awful waste of effort and energy.

It was probably done to add some motion to the external scene, but it makes zero sense in terms of believability.

What you said! Not only does the "orbit" make no sense from a physics perspective, it isn't really what we saw on screen in the original episode. Both the stars and the ship were stationary outside Lurry's office window.

Here's my take on how the scene should have been remastered; with a static station and ship and a moving camera! As you can see, the scene would not lack for motion.

Click for video.

And here is a scale diagram showing the distance of the ship from the station.

 

[BillJ]

No disrespect to anyone here, but "believability" is one of those things that Star Trek gave up a long, long time ago. Its a TV show and those in charge simply thought it looked better to have the Enterprise closer to K-7.

I would have likely respected the original creators choices but it has nothing to do with "believability".

 

[plynch]

Yeah, the screenshots of the model sure look CGI. I thought they actually were, then read/looked carefully. Lighting plays a part.

 

[spockboy]

[/QUOTE]

Excellent idea (and video)
I think the coolest thing would have been to have the Enterprise "dock" somewhere on K7 (which would have been implemented into the design) and shoot it like MGagen suggested. Apparently the station was heavily inspired by this design for some NASA station.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What never made any sense either as originally shot or as seen in TOS-R or TaT is the Enterprise orbiting the station. The station certainly can't have that much of a gravity well to be holding a ship in orbit so the ship would be making constant corrections to fly around the station in a rather tight circle. Seems like an awful waste of effort and energy.

It was probably done to add some motion to the external scene, but it makes zero sense in terms of believability.

Maybe K-7 was slowly rotating so the commercial venues inside would have a varied view, and thus the Enterprise only seemed to be "orbiting" it. The view accounts for much of what you pay for, so rotation would allow K-7 to charge higher rents.

That would make good business sense, good spaceflight sense, and you don't have to mentally adjust too much of what you see on screen for it to be a plausible, in-universe answer.

 

[spockboy]

"Maybe K-7 was slowly rotating so the commercial venues inside would have a varied view, and thus the Enterprise only seemed to be "orbiting" it. The view accounts for much of what you pay for, so rotation would allow K-7 to charge higher rents"


LOL!
Varied view?
Of what?
THIS?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

LOL!
Varied view?
Of what?
THIS?

There might be a nebula or nearby star system that just never made air. Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica may have had dull star fields, but Lost in Space and Space: 1999 generally had elaborate, picturesque cosmic vistas. And I believe K-7 was near the border of other franchises. I'll have to check my star maps.

 

[spockboy]

"And I believe K-7 was near the border of other franchises. I'll have to check my star maps"

Dude, you made me spit out my tea laughing.

Thanks!
(I think)

 

[fireproof78]

No disrespect to anyone here, but "believability" is one of those things that Star Trek gave up a long, long time ago. Its a TV show and those in charge simply thought it looked better to have the Enterprise closer to K-7.

I would have likely respected the original creators choices but it has nothing to do with "believability".

I agree that believability is not my purpose behind watching Trek, but the sense of adventure and tech in space.

However, given that Enterprise was diverted to K-7 for defense purposes, an orbit of the station makes sense, given that an attack can occur from anywhere in space.

Also, military vessels do not always use the most efficient models for power consumption in terms of speed and travel. They will do what is necessary to complete their mission, not worry about fuel costs. Let the ship's purser worry about that

 

[Ithekro]

After that it might be just the circling of the station to pace with the Klingons. Posturing perhaps.

 

[Warped9]

The distance covered in orbiting the station is meaningless to a vessel that can travel thousands of miles in an instant or faster. So there is no tactical advantage to such an orbit. It remains totally nonsensical.

 

[Maurice]

Guys... those images are unnecessarily large. Remember the board guidelines about in-line image sizes?

 

[spockboy]

Guys... those images are unnecessarily large. Remember the board guidelines about in-line image sizes?

Sorry about my part of that.
I will keep my images smaller.

Spockboy

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The lower sensor array dome is noticeably wrong in those shots. Otherwise it looks nice.

Yes I was completely puzzled by that as well. It is so obvious!
Also the bussard collectors both go clockwise (and are orange) but otherwise it looks great!

A minor inaccuracy considering how wonderful the rest of the miniature was constructed. Wouldn't you want that on display in your home?

 

[spockboy]

The lower sensor array dome is noticeably wrong in those shots. Otherwise it looks nice.

Yes I was completely puzzled by that as well. It is so obvious!
Also the bussard collectors both go clockwise (and are orange) but otherwise it looks great!

A minor inaccuracy considering how wonderful the rest of the miniature was constructed. Wouldn't you want that on display in your home?

Hell yeah!
Are you kidding?

 

[Marsden]

One thing I find striking about "Trials and Tribble-ations" is how much the physical models looked like CGI in the finished episode.

This is hard to describe accurately, but the 11-footer always looked indisputably physical, and we all know that lesser-quality CGI work (including some Enterprise scenes in TOS-R) don't quite convince. And weirdly, the "Trials" miniature shots look like CGI. Maybe the fx footage was "touched up" on computer before being incorporated into the DS9 episode.

I thought the whole episode had a sheen of fake on it, even the live action scenes didn't look right, and the background music was really bad, and I mean like Spock telling Norman how bad the pretty flowers smelled bad. And while believablity was never a strong suit in Star Trek, that episode takes believablity and beats it to death and buries it in a shallow grave.

 

[spockboy]

One thing I find striking about "Trials and Tribble-ations" is how much the physical models looked like CGI in the finished episode.

This is hard to describe accurately, but the 11-footer always looked indisputably physical, and we all know that lesser-quality CGI work (including some Enterprise scenes in TOS-R) don't quite convince. And weirdly, the "Trials" miniature shots look like CGI. Maybe the fx footage was "touched up" on computer before being incorporated into the DS9 episode.

I thought the whole episode had a sheen of fake on it, even the live action scenes didn't look right, and the background music was really bad, and I mean like Spock telling Norman how bad the pretty flowers smelled bad. And while believablity was never a strong suit in Star Trek, that episode takes believablity and beats it to death and buries it in a shallow grave.

I agree completely, but that is the "Berman touch" for you.
For example, Berman disliked all of that exciting and dynamic TOS music which is why he elected to use a droning, ambiguous Trek MUZAK which certainly made sure not to offend (or interest) anyone with any originality or creativity. Conversely, for TOS, Roddenberry reportedly told Courage "Make it sound like Captain Blood" (Great reference by the way on Spock telling Norman about the flowers!)
Another thing that adds to the fakery you refer to is that Berman never utilized any of the wonderful cinematic techniques which created the look of TOS. Cinematography is VITAL in film. It conveys emotional perspective. Berman employed mostly medium shots, and squeaky clean effects visuals. Mix that up with some flat 2 dimensional characters motivated by whiny, self obsessed, 1980's style storylines and you have Berman Trek. It was a different generation. Most of the guys who worked on TOS had been to war and were living in a turbulent, fascinating, ultra creative time in history compared to the 1980's generation. The "me" decade. Speaking of those guys, I remember one of the producers of the original Planet of the Apes pointing out that you when you do science fiction you can't introduce too many science fiction ideas at once or you will destroy believability. Following that, and your comment, I submit that TOS was so successful because it grounded itself in all of those aforementioned techniques. Music, cinematography, and riveting stories. All of those factors made the viewer invest emotionally which encouraged believability and distracted them from any ludicrous science fiction that may have been going on. Therefore, it acheived a wonderful balance.

Wow, that felt good. Thanks guys!

 

[Warped9]

One thing I find striking about "Trials and Tribble-ations" is how much the physical models looked like CGI in the finished episode.

This is hard to describe accurately, but the 11-footer always looked indisputably physical, and we all know that lesser-quality CGI work (including some Enterprise scenes in TOS-R) don't quite convince. And weirdly, the "Trials" miniature shots look like CGI. Maybe the fx footage was "touched up" on computer before being incorporated into the DS9 episode.

I thought the whole episode had a sheen of fake on it, even the live action scenes didn't look right, and the background music was really bad, and I mean like Spock telling Norman how bad the pretty flowers smelled bad. And while believablity was never a strong suit in Star Trek, that episode takes believablity and beats it to death and buries it in a shallow grave.

I agree completely, but that is the "Berman touch" for you.
For example, Berman disliked all of that exciting and dynamic TOS music which is why he elected to use a droning, ambiguous Trek MUZAK which certainly made sure not to offend (or interest) anyone with any originality or creativity. Conversely, for TOS, Roddenberry reportedly told Courage "Make it sound like Captain Blood" (Great reference by the way on Spock telling Norman about the flowers!)
Another thing that adds to the fakery you refer to is that Berman never utilized any of the wonderful cinematic techniques which created the look of TOS. Cinematography is VITAL in film. It conveys emotional perspective. Berman employed mostly medium shots, and squeaky clean effects visuals. Mix that up with some flat 2 dimensional characters motivated by whiny, self obsessed, 1980's style storylines and you have Berman Trek. It was a different generation. Most of the guys who worked on TOS had been to war and were living in a turbulent, fascinating, ultra creative time in history compared to the 1980's generation. The "me" decade. Speaking of those guys, I remember one of the producers of the original Planet of the Apes pointing out that you when you do science fiction you can't introduce too many science fiction ideas at once or you will destroy believability. Following that, and your comment, I submit that TOS was so successful because it grounded itself in all of those aforementioned techniques. Music, cinematography, and riveting stories. All of those factors made the viewer invest emotionally which encouraged believability and distracted them from any ludicrous science fiction that may have been going on. Therefore, it acheived a wonderful balance.

Wow, that felt good. Thanks guys!

This. All of it.

 

[Richard Baker]

IIRC they also had ships (both Federation and Klingon) constantly 'orbiting' DS-9.

 

[ST-321]

Maybe I missed it on an earlier page, but what happened to the models that were made for the DS9 Tribbles episode?