The Enterprise as the Federation Flagship

[Ithekro]

With Admiral Kirk in command of the Enterprise for the V'jer Incident would I suppose make her a flagship as it would be holding the flag of a Starfleet Admiral (regardless of the oddity of him being "reduced" to Captain and Decker being "reduced" to Commander). It would technically be a flagship of Admiral Kirk until its destruction, even with in under the command of Captain Spock. It was running as a training ship in 2285, but it seemed like they were preparing to put her back in full service with a new crew until she returned from Genesis and told she was to be decommissioned.

After that, the next Enterprise is just a ship under command of Captain Kirk.

The Galaxy-class USS Enterprise is called "The Flagship of Federation" more than once. Though Picard is not a flag officer, he has been offered positions that would likely hold a flag rank. He is also likely one of their senior captains. If they still had the rank , he would probably be a Fleet Captain as oppose to a Rear Admiral or Commodore.

The Sovereign-class, Enterprise may also be a "Flagship of the Federation" given the role it seems to take in diplomatice functions. Though we see it so little we cannot be certain of this. They did seem to give Picard a new ship as soon as it was finished and named it Enterprise as quickly as possible following the loss of the Galaxy-class vessel. Where as when he lost Stargazer, he seens to have been grounded for eight years. Though in truth we don't really know what assignments Picard had between 2355 and 2363.

No clue on the other Enterprises. Archer's ship was not the flagship, though for a while it was the only ship that could go out that far, that fast. It might have been a flagship at the end of its career in 2160-61 if Archer was promoted to a flag rank due to the Romulan War.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Of course, than Trek XI had to go ahead and retcon the original 1701 as the flagship too.

Captain Pike said the Enterprise was the "newest flagship" so perhaps in the alternate universe all Starfleet ships are flagships.

Maybe in the nuStarfleet, "flagship" is a type of a starship, a big one designed mostly for exploration and alien contacts.

 

[Ithekro]

You mean like "Explorer" is attached to the Galaxy-class? A replacement for the usually battleship or cruiser types that are more naval or military in nature.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Just a random bit of trivia: The first instance of the Enterprise being called the "flagship" is in Diane Duane's The Wounded Sky way back in 1983.

 

[Timo]

He probably just meant that the Enterprise had taken the place of the former flagship, whatever that was.

Other possibilities include Starfleet or the Federation having several flagships (in the "showpiece" sense) at the same time, as there would be plenty of primitives to impress - and/or Starfleet having several ships designed with special "flagship characteristics", a situation familiar from real navies of today and yesterday already. A flag officer needs all sorts of tools if he wants to use a ship as his command center: at the very minimum, special rooms or at least special stations for collating relevant information, plus special communications for receiving this information and for sending out orders, and then the extra personnel needed to run these things.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

You mean like "Explorer" is attached to the Galaxy-class? A replacement for the usually battleship or cruiser types that are more naval or military in nature.

Yup.

 

[T'Girl]

The Galaxy-class USS Enterprise is called "The Flagship of Federation" more than once.

But not "The Flagship of Starfleet," or "The Flagship of the Sixth Fleet."

The Enterprise Dee wasn't the flagship of a group of starships, it was the flagship of an interstellar organization.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

it was the flagship of my heart

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Captain Pike said the Enterprise was the "newest flagship" so perhaps in the alternate universe all Starfleet ships are flagships.

Or Pike was already in the process of becoming an Admiral and he was slated to command the Enterprise anyway. When Kirk was relieved of command, it was Pike that was going to move back into the captain's chair.

And I doubt Pike was going to get a four step demotion just to command the ship.

 

[Ithekro]

One only needs a one step demotion to go from Rear Admiral (one star) to Captain.

 

[Lance]

Yeah, even the Enterprise-D wasn't a "flagship" except on specific missions (ie when Admiral Mark Jameson was aboard in Too Short A Season, for example). It always bugged me that they kept referring to it as such even in cases where it was clear another ship was the actual flagship. In BOBW it seems obvious to me that the Melbourne was the flagship of the Borg incursion (of course, Enterprise wasn't personally involved in the battle). In the movie First Contact, there is another flagship that is destroyed, and Enterprise specifically fills the void ("This is Captain Picard of the Enterprise. I am taking command of the fleet.")

I think somewhere along the way the importance of the Enterprise as our hero ship in the series got inflated to an in-universe importance too. Which is a shame. I prefer the concept of the Enterprise just being one ship of many, all of them having the same kinds of crazy adventures. Elevating it to 'special' status diminishes the rest of Starfleet by comparison.

 

[Mojochi]

Take for example, this conversation between Geordi and Data in Force of Nature:

LAFORGE: Well, their Chief Engineer is Commander Donald Kaplan. He and I went through the Academy together. I just like to make sure that our power conversion levels are a little higher than theirs.
DATA: I understand. You are in competition with Mister Kaplan.
LAFORGE: You might say that. This is the flagship. We should be better than everybody else.

They are clearly referring to the Enterprise as the flagship.

Though, technically, he could still be using the term colloquially, by this time in their tour, they have in fact served as a legitimate flagship of the fleet, & Picard as a flag officer in the post of fleet captain, in Redemption

 

[Hartzilla2007]

One only needs a one step demotion to go from Rear Admiral (one star) to Captain.

I see three normal braids with the big one, instead of just a big one

http://trekcore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/stid-ds1.jpg

Which I take to mean full admiral not rear admiral.

Also Admiral Marcus has the same rank braids and I'm pretty sure the head of starfleet would have a higher rank than rear admiral.

http://www.scifimoviezone.com/imagestartrek/startrekdarkness025.jpg

 

[The Wormhole]

Pike has four pins on his shoulders, which would make him a full Admiral. Marcus has five, which would make him a Fleet Admiral.

 

[Ithekro]

One usually doesn't get a four step promotion into the Admiralty to begin with.

But then we also usually don't have a cadet get promoted to Captain on his first day on a starship.

 

[MacLeod]

Yeah, even the Enterprise-D wasn't a "flagship" except on specific missions (ie when Admiral Mark Jameson was aboard in Too Short A Season, for example). It always bugged me that they kept referring to it as such even in cases where it was clear another ship was the actual flagship. In BOBW it seems obvious to me that the Melbourne was the flagship of the Borg incursion (of course, Enterprise wasn't personally involved in the battle). In the movie First Contact, there is another flagship that is destroyed, and Enterprise specifically fills the void ("This is Captain Picard of the Enterprise. I am taking command of the fleet.")

I think somewhere along the way the importance of the Enterprise as our hero ship in the series got inflated to an in-universe importance too. Which is a shame. I prefer the concept of the Enterprise just being one ship of many, all of them having the same kinds of crazy adventures. Elevating it to 'special' status diminishes the rest of Starfleet by comparison.

But as others have pointed out there are two definitions of flagship

1.>The ship in a fleet which carries the commanding Admiral

2.>The Best or Most important thing owned or produced by a company.

It is under the second definition that the Enterprise is considered to be the Starfleet Flagship, rather than just an Admiral's Flagship.

But in buisness a particular store can be considered that companies Flagship store, it doesn't diminish the other stores. Rather it can serve as an inspiration to the other stores.

 

[Timo]

There is also the third possible definition, also discussed here: a ship that by design is better at serving an onboard Admiral in his command duties than the average ship.

Current USN terminology for a dedicated flag officer's command vessel is "command ship" rather than "flagship", but various other navies have used terminology that is closer to "flagship". Especially when said command vessel is actually an active combatant that merely has some additional command spaces, rather than an essentially unarmed floating office like the most recent USN command ships of LCC or AGF types.

Modern networking systems have made it less vital for an Admiral to have a huge staff filling three communications rooms, two map rooms and a cafeteria in order to get the job done. But even 23rd century Starfleet might see it necessary to provide a commanding Admiral with at least one dedicated command room situated well apart from the busy navigating bridge. For all we know, Pike's new ship was it, while other equally modern Starfleet vessels might lack the flagship facilities and never be considered "newest flagship" at launch.

Pike has four pins on his shoulders, which would make him a full Admiral. Marcus has five, which would make him a Fleet Admiral.

Modern rank braid systems would have the one thick braid denote the lowest, "one-star" flag rank (in Starfleet, supposedly Commodore), while each narrow braid would add to the total so that the highest, "five-star" rank would actually only have four narrow braid.

Kirk in ST:TMP has one narrow stripe, in agreement with the Rear Admiral idea that the costumers in this movie and the following ones supported. He also has one epaulet star, though, when technically he ought to have two...

The ST:ID practice where there is one star more than there are narrow braids is more in synch with today's practices, then. And the ST:ID stars would seem to match TNG era pips as well as today's stars. I'm fine with the system - the new movies should only be bashed for the quickness of promotions, not for inconsistencies in this respect.

Although we can always kill two Vultyrian moon-bats with one kivas crystal here, and say that the promotions in STXI were not quick. Instead, perhaps several years passed between the scene where Kirk and Spock saved Earth and killed Nero, and the one where Admiral Pike shook hands with Captain Kirk. Sure, Kirk's face is "still" bruised - but that probably happens to him thrice a week anyway. Sure, everybody is "still" in those red uniforms - but that doesn't mean they would be cadets, because we know most of them are not. Rather, it could be more of a reunion for the veterans of the Battle With Nero (a large number of whom would obviously be Kirk's cadet-mates).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

For all we know, Pike's new ship was it, while other equally modern Starfleet vessels might lack the flagship facilities and never be considered "newest flagship" at launch.

If this was the case, why then give command of the Enterprise to Kirk (without Pike aboard), instead of giving Kirk another starship, and having the Enterprise then serve as Pike's flagship?

 

[Timo]

Pike might have been on the verge of promotion to appropriate flag rank for frontline fleet command duties - but his heroic invalidization made it both appropriate and necessary to promote him even further and give him a desk job.

In ST:ID we see that he would later recover enough to again undertake field duties, but a full Admiral returning to commanding a ship sounds quite dubious, even on (and especially on) the eve of a major war. Yet if the Enterprise indeed were a dedicated command ship, then Pike becoming both her CO and her onboard flag specialist might be an efficient use of resources. Today, it would be idiocy, hobbling both roles, but future technologies might make it possible for the Admiral to also be the Captain of his own command ship.

In the meantime, the command capabilities of the ship would not be needed, for lack of major fleet action, and the ship could be used for general exploration duties under Kirk's command. Sure, Kirk could get any other ship, but this one would be in need of a CO now that the plan with Pike fell through, and Kirk would be a celebrity Starfleet's PR department would recommend rewarding with a very public assignment.

(As for why the Enterprise didn't command the Vulcan response fleet, apparently leaving the task to the older Truman, we can assume that Pike's ship was not yet fully fitted for that mission - not on her supposed maiden voyage, let alone on an impromptu mission probably launched well ahead of the scheduled maiden voyage.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Pike might have been on the verge of promotion to appropriate flag rank for frontline fleet command duties - but his heroic invalidization made it both appropriate and necessary to promote him even further and give him a desk job.

In which case surely another senior captain would have received Pike's anticipated promotion to junior "flag rank" in Pike's place, and would have taken the Enterprise as his/her flagship.

Pike not moving into that slot means there would have been both a opening and a need.