The Enterprise as the Federation Flagship

[Joel_Kirk]

So, according to my vague recollection, the Enterprise was referred to as the 'flagship' in "The Search for Spock" and "Star Trek: The Next Generation."

I assume 1701-B and C were not necessarily 'flagships' but were prominent ships because they held the name Enterprise. (Even Lt. Castillo in the TNG episode 'Yesterday's Enterprise' claimed that he wanted a place on the B because of the name).

In the movie section down below, there were some very interesting comments that speculated that Kirk, by the time of the films and after his demotion, was probably kept on a leash by Starfleet Command. That his missions on board the A were probably 'special missions' and that normally another crew manned the 1701 a bit more frequently.

During the five-year missions, the Enterprise was still making a name for itself as one of 12 - 14 (?) Constitution-class vessels. Even in nuTOS where Uhura pushes Spock to get on board the Enterprise, it's probably partly due to her wanting to be near Spock and partly because it's a new vessel since we don't see other ships like the Enterprise, at least onscreen. (Uhura's roommate, on the other hand, seems excited just in general....and she wasn't assigned to the Enterprise).

It's one more untold story, but do you think post-Kirk and pre-Picard (and even post-Picard) there might be another ship that stole Enterprise's thunder? I know Captain Styles of the experimental Excelsior wanted to do just that, but didn't figure out his Chief Engineer was still loyal to the NCC-1701. Of course, Sulu probably made a name for himself when he finally took over command of the Excelsior. Or, it could have been another ship that came up in the ranks....(the U.S.S Saratoga perhaps!)

 

[Dukhat]

So, according to my vague recollection, the Enterprise was referred to as the 'flagship' in "The Search for Spock" and "Star Trek: The Next Generation."

The only person who called the Enterprise the Federation flagship in STIII was Kruge, IIRC. He was hardly an authority on the matter.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

So, according to my vague recollection, the Enterprise was referred to as the 'flagship' in "The Search for Spock" and "Star Trek: The Next Generation."

The only person who called the Enterprise the Federation flagship in STIII was Kruge, IIRC. He was hardly an authority on the matter.

True. lol

 

[Timo]

In the end, then, only the E-D has been considered "the Federation Flagship" by people in the know.

Doesn't mean the other ships by that name wouldn't have been symbolically important to the Federation - and certainly several of them performed flagship duties for Starfleet, that is, they flew the flag of a flag officer (in "The Menagerie", very literally so!) and occasionally acted as lead ships for formations of starships.

Ships with different names probably did a lot of that, too, though.

It's one more untold story, but do you think post-Kirk and pre-Picard (and even post-Picard) there might be another ship that stole Enterprise's thunder?

Quite possibly; all it takes is three years of glory, after all...

(Although no, we don't ever quite learn that Kirk's original two ships would have been famous as such. It was Kirk who was famous, and certainly his enemies recognized his ship easily enough - but it might have taken Starfleet's PR division some doing to get the public to venerate the name Enterprise, and favorably view the launching of the expensive E-B...)

At some point, it appears that USS Yamato, NCC-1305, did something memorable, too. Both the low registry and the fact that the "series" had already reached the E suffix in the 2360s while the Enterprise was still at D suggest that the Yamato served some time before Kirk's ship. Did she "steal the thunder" of the name Enterprise, or was Archer's ship left without a namesake for a century for other reasons? In any case, the Yamato deal suggests there can be several ship names Starfleet thinks highly of concurrently.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

I preferred it when the ship was just another ship, and not "special".

 

[BillJ]

Kruge never refers to the Enterprise as a flagship:

KRUGE: We are Klingons! Once you control the ship, we will transfer our flag there, And take Genesis from their own memory banks!

Torg refers to the Enterprise as a Federation battlecruiser:

MALTZ: Vessel entering sector.
TORG: Yes. ...Federation Battle Cruiser. Have they scanned us?

The whole "flagship" non-sense didn't start until TNG.

Dialog is from transcripts available at chakoteya.net.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Kruge never refers to the Enterprise as a flagship:

KRUGE: We are Klingons! Once you control the ship, we will transfer our flag there, And take Genesis from their own memory banks!

Torg refers to the Enterprise as a Federation battlecruiser:

MALTZ: Vessel entering sector.
TORG: Yes. ...Federation Battle Cruiser. Have they scanned us?

The whole "flagship" non-sense didn't start until TNG.

Dialog is from transcripts available at chakoteya.net.

Yes, nonsense it is. Flagships have a flag officer, the admiral commanding the task force, doing so from a designated ship, the flagship. So, in TMP or TWoK the Enterprise under Admiral Kirk would have been a legitimate flagship. The rest is bad writing thinking the term means the best ship.

Now, if commodores are flag officers in Star Fleet, Matt Decker's Constellation would have been a flag ship. That might have given him the authority to take over Enterprise as he did in Doomsday Machine as he could have been Kirk's superior as the commander of the Starship task force where Constellation and Enterprise were patrolling. That would be more believable than the typical higher rank nonsense that Star Trek generally uses.

 

[BK613]

I prefer to think of the non-naval use of the term as referring to the Galaxy-class in general (as the newest and purportedly most sophisticated class) rather than the Enterprise-D in particular. IOW, any Captain of a Galaxy-class could make the claim of being in command of the "flagship of the Federation."

 

[Timo]

I preferred it when the ship was just another ship, and not "special".

There's something to be said for TNG flat out stating that the ship was a prime appointment for the cream of the cream - thus explaining how "celebrities" like Starfleet's only android and Klingon and the daughter of an ambassador would end up serving together, even though Starfleet supposedly is big and diverse and all.

The rest is bad writing thinking the term means the best ship.

But it does. In the civilian context, that is - and Federation Flagship is decidedly civilian context, even if the ship is operated by Starfleet.

The E-D by all accounts is the UFP's showpiece ship and leading tool of (gunboat) diplomacy, and certainly warrants the Flagship title the same way there are Flagship stores, Flagship hotels and so forth.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

I prefer to think of the non-naval use of the term as referring to the Galaxy-class in general (as the newest and purportedly most sophisticated class) rather than the Enterprise-D in particular. IOW, any Captain of a Galaxy-class could make the claim of being in command of the "flagship of the Federation."

Except that's not the interpretation that was used in TNG. Take for example, this conversation between Geordi and Data in Force of Nature:

LAFORGE: Well, their Chief Engineer is Commander Donald Kaplan. He and I went through the Academy together. I just like to make sure that our power conversion levels are a little higher than theirs.
DATA: I understand. You are in competition with Mister Kaplan.
LAFORGE: You might say that. This is the flagship. We should be better than everybody else.

They are clearly referring to the Enterprise as the flagship.

As others have said, this didn't start until TNG, in TOS the Enterprise was just another ship. Of course, than Trek XI had to go ahead and retcon the original 1701 as the flagship too.

 

[BK613]

I prefer to think of the non-naval use of the term as referring to the Galaxy-class in general (as the newest and purportedly most sophisticated class) rather than the Enterprise-D in particular. IOW, any Captain of a Galaxy-class could make the claim of being in command of the "flagship of the Federation."

Except that's not the interpretation that was used in TNG.

Which is why I started that sentence with "I prefer to think."

Take for example, this conversation between Geordi and Data in Force of Nature:

LAFORGE: Well, their Chief Engineer is Commander Donald Kaplan. He and I went through the Academy together. I just like to make sure that our power conversion levels are a little higher than theirs.
DATA: I understand. You are in competition with Mister Kaplan.
LAFORGE: You might say that. This is the flagship. We should be better than everybody else.

They are clearly referring to the Enterprise as the flagship.

As others have said, this didn't start until TNG, in TOS the Enterprise was just another ship. Of course, than Trek XI had to go ahead and retcon the original 1701 as the flagship too.

Nothing in my post suggested any disagreement with the idea that Enterprise-only use wasn't TPTB's original intent.

OTOH,

LAFORGE: You might say that. This is a Galaxy class. We should be better than everybody else.

works for me. YMMV.

 

[T'Girl]

Of course, than Trek XI had to go ahead and retcon the original 1701 as the flagship too.

Captain Pike said the Enterprise was the "newest flagship" so perhaps in the alternate universe all Starfleet ships are flagships.

 

[Cyke101]

I preferred it when the ship was just another ship, and not "special".

I've always preferred that, too. To me it also implies that for all the weird, kooky, far-out cosmic adventures that our heroes experience, they're actually quite so commonplace that other ships with other crews that don't get their TV shows also experience similar missions and adventures. Surely the galaxy must have no shortage of mad scientists and spatial anomalies to deal with

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It was pretty clear in TNG that the Enterprise was supposed to be 'The best ship in Starfleet'.

Not that it makes sense to convey that status to a ship on a deep space exploration mission. TNG could never really decide whether Enterprise was exploring deep space or if it was assigned to political matters at home. Whenever there was an alien of the week it was the latter, but then whenever the Romulans or the Cardassians came into play, the Picard was the one ship assigned to defense in the sector that knew all the fleet deployments.

 

[Shat Happens]

Canonically, flagships are ships that are destroyed by 100-year old Birds of Prey.

 

[BillJ]

Captain Pike said the Enterprise was the "newest flagship" so perhaps in the alternate universe all Starfleet ships are flagships.

Or Pike was already in the process of becoming an Admiral and he was slated to command the Enterprise anyway. When Kirk was relieved of command, it was Pike that was going to move back into the captain's chair.

Foreshadowing.

 

[BillJ]

Canonically, flagships are ships that are destroyed by 100-year old Birds of Prey.

+1

For the best of the best of the best, the Enterprise-D crew sure did show quite a bit of ineptitude.

 

[Cyke101]

So, in TMP or TWoK the Enterprise under Admiral Kirk would have been a legitimate flagship.

Canonically, flagships are ships that are destroyed by 100-year old Birds of Prey.

I'm just taking Gov Karnstein's post in assuming that TSFS also fits to further Shat's point, and also to say that we can now predict comfortably what happens to the JJPrise in the next movie: death by an Enterprise-era Bird of Prey!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I think I misremembered some dialogue.

Kruge never said anything about the Enterprise being the flagship of the Federation. He was talking about the literal 'flag of the Federation' fluttering in the breeze once he gets his hands on Genesis.

The dialogue: "And overhead, fluttering in the breeze, the flag of the Federation."

(That's what I get being online when I should have been in bed asleep!)

 

[Dukhat]

Captain Pike said the Enterprise was the "newest flagship" so perhaps in the alternate universe all Starfleet ships are flagships.

He probably just meant that the Enterprise had taken the place of the former flagship, whatever that was.

For the best of the best of the best, the Enterprise-D crew sure did show quite a bit of ineptitude.

That's just the fault of Braga and Moore's shitty writing forced upon them by Paramount.