How to Fix Star Trek Generations [Article]

[Praxius]

I think the idea of "Picard picked an odd time to return and should have returned sooner" a bit short.

I thought about it before and figured he should have gone back earlier to save the Enterprise and stop the whole mess the first time he laid eyes on Soron.... but then again, how would he explain to everybody and justify his actions when what he is accused of didn't happen yet?

While all of this is happening, he isn't aware of how badly things are going for the Enterprise as he's too busy on the ground.... to me in the end, it did seem logical for him to pick that particular time to return as this time he had backup with Kirk and his Judo Chops!

 

[Melakon]

Generations needed a scene with Picard finding Riker and the crashed saucer, saying "What the hell did you do to my ship?!"

 

[SPCTRE]

That would have been a genuinely funny scene, Patrick Stewart would've had a field day

 

[eyeresist]

I actually think the first half of Generations is a fairly decent flick. But, once Picard gets sucked into the Nexus, the air is completely sucked out of the film.

These are my feelings about the movie to a tee - everything up to that point stands shoulder to shoulder with almost any Trek film, it's full of intrigue, outstanding cinematography, great visual effects and a solid score. The whole thing just seems to unravel big-time as soon as we get to the nonsensical Nexus scenes.

I agree. I don't particularly care about fine points of Trek continuity and each fan-favourite getting their time in the sun. The problem with GEN is one suffered by many Hollywood movies - they come up with a good first act, and then just say "Oh, we'll fix the rest of it later." And they never do! (At most, they pass the script through a dozen writers and producers, none of whom has any sense of responsibility for the script that would compel them to do more than just tinker at the edges.)

The section in the Nexus should have been intense ("I need my pain," remember?), while the climactic struggle should have been epic, and with a sense that Kirk and Picard had really bonded.

 

[2takesfrakes]

... Brent Spiner's cringeworthy comedy. [...SNIP!] - fantastic actor, but what was he trying to do here?

... AGREED!!!

When Geordi and Data are on the observatory, every nanosecond annoyed the living piss out of me. Between Data's idiotic "humour" and Brent Spiners irritating delivery of it, this scene dragged on and on, with no relief in sight! There was nothing interesting to look at on the set, to distract oneself with. And the "payoff" of a faulty emotional chip and Data finally "coming around," came ten minutes too late. But they had this cheap, FX-free set to roam around on and eat up time with and they do it in the most grating way possible to serve Spiner's ego and $ave money. Neither of which is any way to entertain an audience ...

 

[suarezguy]

TNG didn't need a transition movie but it also certainly didn't need its last movie to be a bringing-the original series-back-in movie with Kirk saving the day by bringing Picard out of the Nexus (well, this does show how difficult it can be to make both stars of a crossover come across positively).

Otherwise, you can ask why didn't they go back further in many stories with time travel and it especially makes sense that the Trek characters would try to go back, and change, the least amount possible.

Agreed that Data experiencing emotions shouldn't have been so centered on comic relief and that Soran could have been made even more of a sympathetic/reluctant villain.

 

[Praxius]

... Brent Spiner's cringeworthy comedy. [...SNIP!] - fantastic actor, but what was he trying to do here?

... AGREED!!!

When Geordi and Data are on the observatory, every nanosecond annoyed the living piss out of me. Between Data's idiotic "humour" and Brent Spiners irritating delivery of it, this scene dragged on and on, with no relief in sight! There was nothing interesting to look at on the set, to distract oneself with. And the "payoff" of a faulty emotional chip and Data finally "coming around," came ten minutes too late. But they had this cheap, FX-free set to roam around on and eat up time with and they do it in the most grating way possible to serve Spiner's ego and $ave money. Neither of which is any way to entertain an audience ...

So would you have preferred if Data simply put the emotion chip in, everything worked fine, he giggled for a second and that was the last we ever heard of it?

Data getting emotions was a "big thing" for many fans of TNG and story-wise it makes sense that he would not know how to deal with those emotions right away because throughout the entire series, he never could figure out anger, humour or sadness, etc.... At least not enough to really count.

The only thing I could compare it to (my apologies) would be a person having sex for the first time. You can read about it, you can imagine what it's all about.... But.....

Sorry to say, but I think the emotion chip and Data trying to figure it all out needed to have some air time like it did.

Yes, when Data and LaForge were on the observatory it annoyed the piss out of you. I can completely understand that as it even hits my limits near the end.... But that was exactly the point and it did it well. Even LaForge was annoyed by it and he was his best friend.

Afterwards in the movie it mellowed out a bit, but you can't expect it to have everything go back to normal or become balanced like First Contact so quickly.

 

[Franklin]

Everything that is wrong with this movie comes down to the Nexus being a crap plot device. It has to be said.

Got your back, bro.

Generations is an oddity to me: It's a great and horrible film at the same time.

I attribute the good to the good performances. The bad to the writing. The cast elevated the material.

The Christmas dream, I thought was good because Patrick Stewart got to really do some acting.

It is a distinctly mixed film, and I think you've hit why it is on the head. Some parts are well done. Others don't rise to the occasion. If one reads the dialog between Kirk and Picard in the nexus, it's very light weight. No crackle. No sizzle. Kirk laments that he no longer makes a difference. Kirk reminds Picard that as long as he's in the captain's chair he can make a difference. Picard says to Kirk to come back with him and make a difference. Then later, with his dying breath, Kirk asks Picard if they made a difference. That's lazy writing. There was no feeling that two legendary leaders and intellects are conversing. Stewart and Shatner made it work as best they could, but the Kirk-Picard scenes were a big letdown to me.

 

[Commishsleer]

... Brent Spiner's cringeworthy comedy. [...SNIP!] - fantastic actor, but what was he trying to do here?

... AGREED!!!

When Geordi and Data are on the observatory, every nanosecond annoyed the living piss out of me. Between Data's idiotic "humour" and Brent Spiners irritating delivery of it, this scene dragged on and on, with no relief in sight! There was nothing interesting to look at on the set, to distract oneself with. And the "payoff" of a faulty emotional chip and Data finally "coming around," came ten minutes too late. But they had this cheap, FX-free set to roam around on and eat up time with and they do it in the most grating way possible to serve Spiner's ego and $ave money. Neither of which is any way to entertain an audience ...

So would you have preferred if Data simply put the emotion chip in, everything worked fine, he giggled for a second and that was the last we ever heard of it?

Data getting emotions was a "big thing" for many fans of TNG and story-wise it makes sense that he would not know how to deal with those emotions right away because throughout the entire series, he never could figure out anger, humour or sadness, etc.... At least not enough to really count.

The only thing I could compare it to (my apologies) would be a person having sex for the first time. You can read about it, you can imagine what it's all about.... But.....

Sorry to say, but I think the emotion chip and Data trying to figure it all out needed to have some air time like it did.

Yes, when Data and LaForge were on the observatory it annoyed the piss out of you. I can completely understand that as it even hits my limits near the end.... But that was exactly the point and it did it well. Even LaForge was annoyed by it and he was his best friend.

Afterwards in the movie it mellowed out a bit, but you can't expect it to have everything go back to normal or become balanced like First Contact so quickly.

Wouldn't it have been better for Data to appear sweet or more self-aware when he got his emotion chip rather than looking like a total OTT idiot?
Wouldn't it have been better for fans to get great writing and a great performance after waiting for it for so long ?
It could have been so easily done. I think the comedy was done to make Spiner happy. And if most people are happy about it then I'm glad for them. I'm disappointed and cringe and wonder how non Star Trek people view it.

 

[Mytran]

how is it Picard can reappear before entering the nexus, and therefore never enter the nexus at all...yet be there by virtue of the nexus?! This might be more puzzling than Captain Christopher being beamed into himself in Tomorrow Is Yesterday...

Nah, that's not puzzling at all! They are dead (post 32)

 

[2takesfrakes]

When Geordi and Data are on the observatory, every nanosecond annoyed the living piss out of me. Between Data's idiotic "humour" and Brent Spiners irritating delivery of it, this scene dragged on and on, with no relief in sight!

So would you have preferred if Data simply put the emotion chip in, everything worked fine, he giggled for a second and that was the last we ever heard of it?

Wouldn't it have been better for Data to appear sweet or more self-aware when he got his emotion chip rather than looking like a total OTT idiot?
Wouldn't it have been better for fans to get great writing and a great performance after waiting for it for so long ?
It could have been so easily done. I think the comedy was done to make Spiner happy. And if most people are happy about it then I'm glad for them. I'm disappointed and cringe and wonder how non Star Trek people view it.

Absolutely, the writing had to be alot better for the Data/Geordi scene on the observatory. The way "they" approached it was not the only approach available, or possible. Obviously, emotions can be very powerful, even overwhelming, at times for us people who are born with and are used to having feelings. "They" made a poor decision choosing to annoy the audience, at all. Much less with Data's "Humour Malfunction." It totally robbed Data of any sympathy when his face distorted and he passed out, for a second. It actually came as a great relief, because he finally shut the hell up. Then, when he's cowering in fear, instead of rescuing Geordi, again, it's hard to sympathise after all the garbage that preceeded it. The writing for Data's "Be Careful What You Wish For" moment ended up as complete rubbish in a rubbish movie and it didn't have to be. If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage ...

 

[Melakon]

The Data laughing scenes were a poor choice, I think. We'd already seen him go into a paroxysm of laughter thanks to Q during the series.

It might have been more interesting, and a more dramatic moment for Spiner, if Data had been overcome with profound grief remembering Dr. Soong's death, or Tasha's, or something. Watching people laugh uncontrollably in any film or television show doesn't always mean the audience is going to laugh with them or at them.

And it's often difficult for any actor to make laughter sound natural.

 

[David Ellerman]

Generations needed a first rate movie composer not a TV guy who admits to preferring subtle music to powerful scores.

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm one of those weirdos who really enjoy listening to the GEN OST.

 

[Melakon]

Generations needed a first rate movie composer not a TV guy who admits to preferring subtle music to powerful scores.

Maybe he was just saying that to avoid incurring the Wrath of Berman.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Generations needed a first rate movie composer not a TV guy who admits to preferring subtle music to powerful scores.

I liked the score!!

 

[Smellmet]

I didn't mind it either

 

[pfontaine2]

What I never understood was the nature of either Kirk and Picard's Nexus existence.

Strictly from a fan's point of view, I would have thought Kirks Nexus existence would have placed him squarely back on the bridge of the original Enterprise, not a log cabin in the woods splitting logs for his fireplace.

If a cabin in the woods really was his "happy place" in the Nexus, at least it should have been a happy domestic life with Carol Marcus and David rather than with a woman we (as the audience invested in Trek) never met. This existence would have made leaving the Nexus a much greater sacrifice for Kirk rather than making breakfast for someone we've never seen before and riding his horse through the countryside.

Likewise, Picard's Nexus existence doesn't make any sense either. Picard really wants a domestic, Victorian life (or perhaps it's the Belle Epoque) straight out of Dickens?

Both of these fantasies were indulgences handed out to the actors, but did nothing for the general audience or Trek fans in particular. Shatner gets to show off his horses and his riding skills and Stewart gets to tip his hat at his Christmas Carol one-man shows.

 

[Commishsleer]

What I never understood was the nature of either Kirk and Picard's Nexus existence.

Strictly from a fan's point of view, I would have thought Kirks Nexus existence would have placed him squarely back on the bridge of the original Enterprise, not a log cabin in the woods splitting logs for his fireplace.

If a cabin in the woods really was his "happy place" in the Nexus, at least it should have been a happy domestic life with Carol Marcus and David rather than with a woman we (as the audience invested in Trek) never met. This existence would have made leaving the Nexus a much greater sacrifice for Kirk rather than making breakfast and riding horses.

Likewise, Picard's Nexus existence doesn't make any sense either. Picard really wants a domestic, Victorian life (or perhaps it's the Belle Epoque) straight out of Dickens?

Both of these fantasies were indulgences handed out to the actors, but did nothing for the general audience or Trek fans in particular. Shatner gets to show off his horses and his riding skills and Stewart gets to tip his hat at his Christmas Carol one-man shows.

Exactly.
Lamest fantasy ever.

 

[Lance]

The dumbest thing about Kirk's fantasy life to me (apart from all the above ) is the fact that we don't even see Antonia, so we've got no feeling for Kirk's apparent emotional connection to the woman he wished he'd married. That's really the fatal flaw. Maybe we could've bought it if we'd got the meet the woman instead of just hearing Kirk say how much she was "the one". If the movie makers didn't care enough to show rather than tell, then why should we as an audience care either? Instead we've just got Antonia being literally a voice off-stage, and we have to watch Shatner beating eggs instead of acting.

Kirk just isn't integrated into the story enough. That's one of GENS's fundamental problems. I know the story was basically constructed as being "the first TNG feature, with special guest William Shatner!", but that's a definite problem in itself: you just don't book someone like William Shatner as a guest star in Star Trek and then relegate him to the position of a glorified cameo. Compare that to Spock Prime in ST09 to see how they should have done it: essentially he's only in a couple scenes too, but all of those scenes have got an important role in the story, and help to do exactly what GENS was trying to: passing the baton to a new crew. He's still just a cameo, but he's integrated into the script much better.