Archer being a jerk in Broken Bow

[eyeresist]

Since I've arrived at Trek BBS it's been interesting to read other people's opinions on Enterprise, whereas previously I was only aware of a vague general disdain. One thing in particular that surprised me was complaints about Archer being overly antagonistic, especially at the beginning of the series.

So I rewatched Broken Bow last night (first time in a few years), and now I understand what people mean, but I wonder if Archer's reputation mostly hinges on just one scene, i.e. the early one where he mouths off to the Vulcans in front of his superiors. In subsequent scenes, Archer is actually much more reasonable, but the lingering memory of the jerk scene taints what comes after.

I assume this scene was shot early, before they had really settled on the tone of the show. It's a shame the director didn't bring all the actors down several notches (everyone in the scene seems overly het up).

I can imagine the same dialog being much more effective if Archer was calm and polite on the surface, with his resentment only peaking out from underneath. This would have made his "knock you on your ass" line a drily humorous comment out of left field, rather than an unnecessary physical threat.

Admittedly this rewatch has so far gone no further than the pilot episode, so I don't remember if there is unnecessary jerkiness in subsequent episodes, or if it all stems from this one misjudged instance.

Thoughts?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ I agree about one scene having the potential to put viewers on the wrong bus about a character. I think your suggested subtler read would definitely have had a better effect.

Archer never struck me as a jerk in "Broken Bow." Just had a chip on his shoulder about Vulcans, and it was understandable. By episode's end, he saw that chip himself, and was taking steps to remove it.

The character was written inconsistently, so there's plenty to like, or not like, depending on how different scenes and situations hit you. I liked him from the start, so I enjoyed watching the gradual progression of his relationship with T'Pol, from wary adversaries to respected colleagues to trusted friends. It was a great macrocosm for the partnership between humans and Vulcans over the course of the show.

And the dark Archer of Season 3 was just a knockout for me. I thought Bakula was at his best in Season 3, as the war really battered his moral compass. My favorite season. My favorite episode is "Observer Effect," largely because of Archer, and Bakula's performance.

And every scene with Porthos - gold.

 

[eyeresist]

I enjoyed watching the gradual progression of his relationship with T'Pol, from wary adversaries to respected colleagues to trusted friends. It was a great macrocosm for the partnership between humans and Vulcans over the course of the show.

Yes, I thought that aspect of the series was nicely effective.

And every scene with Porthos - gold.

The movie Dune showed that Pickard with a dog could also have worked, but Archer boldly went there first. I can't imagine any of the other captains doing as well as these two.

Who's a cute little doggy? You are! Yes you are!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Archer physically and crassly threatening a member of a visiting delegation of aliens in front of his superior officers during an important meeting over the comatose body of captured hostile, that was godawful. I find it horribly embarrassing to watch. I have gotten people to watch ENT after they've seen other series and had them HATE Archer to start with because of this.

His stupid whiny antics about his dog being allowed to pee where it liked was also godawful.

But other than that he was fine. Out of his element, on a steep learning curve, working hard at being a good captain. The thing is those two things were really DUMB. If they wanted to show flawed human they could have done it without making the viewer wonder how this guy ever got picked for such a prestigious command.

Those are glitches though in an otherwise well drawn character. His stepping up to the plate at his own moral expense in season 3 is particularly good.

 

[dub]

^^ I agree about one scene having the potential to put viewers on the wrong bus about a character. I think your suggested subtler read would definitely have had a better effect.

Archer never struck me as a jerk in "Broken Bow." Just had a chip on his shoulder about Vulcans, and it was understandable. By episode's end, he saw that chip himself, and was taking steps to remove it.

The character was written inconsistently, so there's plenty to like, or not like, depending on how different scenes and situations hit you. I liked him from the start, so I enjoyed watching the gradual progression of his relationship with T'Pol, from wary adversaries to respected colleagues to trusted friends. It was a great macrocosm for the partnership between humans and Vulcans over the course of the show.

And the dark Archer of Season 3 was just a knockout for me. I thought Bakula was at his best in Season 3, as the war really battered his moral compass. My favorite season. My favorite episode is "Observer Effect," largely because of Archer, and Bakula's performance.

And every scene with Porthos - gold.

I agree with all of this. I actually liked Archer. It's such a shame the series was cut short...especially the way it was cut short...by an old and annoying Riker, and that old bitch who keeps calling DS9 "Deep Sleep Nine." Grrrrrrr......

 

[KimMH]

Who's a cute little doggy? You are! Yes you are!

Love!

Have started a re-watch inspired by the re-watch thread and was embarrassed for Archer in Broken Bow. Have seen the entire series and am just keeping in mind he becomes more complex and interesting as the series progresses.

My initial reaction was "It's Star Trek so it has to get better than this." It did.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

IMO, Archer wasn't being a jerk, he was being Human. A Human that wasn't as "enlightened" or "perfect" as 24th-Century Humans, but Human all the same. Still, in the end of "Broken Bow" itself, he was able to see that he had to let that old grudge and his preconceptions about Vulcans go...

 

[gblews]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

IMO, Archer wasn't being a jerk, he was being Human. A Human that wasn't as "enlightened" or "perfect" as 24th-Century Humans, but Human all the same. Still, in the end of "Broken Bow" itself, he was able to see that he had to let that old grudge and his preconceptions about Vulcans go...

So you believe that Archer's inability to control his emotions in a very crucial situation was justified?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

In "Broken Bow", Archer just comes across as an ass to me. Right from the start he comes across as a thoroughly unpleasant character, which sticks with him throughout the entire series, later compounded by being pretty much incompetent and in need of a decent speech writer.

He has a hatred of the Vulcans, primarily because they weren't nice or helpful to his daddy and because he believes they are holding humanity back. He doesn't seem to base his assumptions of the Vulcans on any he might actually have met during his life.

Looking at it from an objective viewpoint, the Vulcans have said that they were wary of humans, with first contact being just a few years after a devastating nuclear war. They then take a century, helping them out and getting them used to the thought of what might be out there.

When humans come to design and build the first warp five engine, they would need to prove that they can understand and handle the technology. Had the Vulcans just handed it over to them, then humanity wouldn't have learnt anything and would most likely have blown themselves up shortly there after.

As for holding back humanities trek into space, the Vulcans have been an interstellar species for hundreds (if not even thousands) of years, so they will know a few more things than humans of the time could ever hope to grasp. They are being cautious, because humanity is so inexperienced.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

IMO, Archer wasn't being a jerk, he was being Human. A Human that wasn't as "enlightened" or "perfect" as 24th-Century Humans, but Human all the same. Still, in the end of "Broken Bow" itself, he was able to see that he had to let that old grudge and his preconceptions about Vulcans go...

So you believe that Archer's inability to control his emotions in a very crucial situation was justified?

That sounds like something a Vulcan would ask.

It really wasn't a very crucial situation, though (that would be a red alert scenario). And Archer did control his emotions as all he did was toss an insult towards a Vulcan who had just insulted his entire species.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it does regularly happen--even among Vulcans.

But the whole point was that Archer wasn't particularly fond of Vulcans (given his personal history with them). But to his credit, he was able to get over it like T'Pol had to get over her initially lukewarm view of Humans.

 

[eyeresist]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

But presumably, if the Vulcans are the Man, always spoiling the humans' fun, everyone would be used to this situation, i.e. Archer was not unusually provoked. He would be used to the Vulcans, at every juncture, saying "Hmm, no, bad idea."

And the Vulcans weren't using force against the humans. I assume Earth cooperated with them because of the help they were getting, which they didn't want to see withdrawn.

Does anyone know exactly what the Vulcans refused to help Archer's dad with? Access to exotic materials, perhaps?

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

But presumably, if the Vulcans are the Man, always spoiling the humans' fun, everyone would be used to this situation, i.e. Archer was not unusually provoked. He would be used to the Vulcans, at every juncture, saying "Hmm, no, bad idea."

Who says that Archer was the only one who resented the Vulcans for holding Humans back? Add to that he had more of a personal connection with the Warp Five engine--he saw his father struggle for decades until he died to develop it while the Vulcans (who already had the technology long ago) simply watched and did nothing.

With all that long-held resentment inside Archer, all it took was one snarky comment from a Vulcan to provoke him to fire back with one of his own.

 

[SPCTRE]

IMO, Archer had a 30-year grudge against the Vulcans for not helping his father with the development of the Warp Five engine. I think he also held them responsible for his father not being able to see that engine become a reality and for generally holding back Humans for decades.

It was totally a personal thing, but in that observation room at Starfleet Medical, it all came to a boil standing before a group of Vulcans recommending that Enterprise's launch should be postponed. The final straw was when some snooty Vulcan lectured him how Humans still weren't ready for deep-space...

IMO, Archer wasn't being a jerk, he was being Human. A Human that wasn't as "enlightened" or "perfect" as 24th-Century Humans, but Human all the same. Still, in the end of "Broken Bow" itself, he was able to see that he had to let that old grudge and his preconceptions about Vulcans go...

Agreed. It felt like a believable (if not exactly relatable) little arc for Archer in the pilot.

At no point did he come off as a jerk or unsuited as a starship captain to me.

 

[jespah]

In a way, it seems a little like the "primitive" end of the Prime Directive. If you're (can open, worms everywhere, sorry) the Valakians and you learn that the humans and the Denobulans have tech that can save you or at least make it possible for you to save yourselves, you're not going to go gentle into that good night. You're going to scream about how unfair and barbaric it is to withhold aid.

Even if it's not a life or death situation, you're going to (probably) be royally pissed off. In particular, Archer is getting it because he saw his father waste away and die from an awful disease and the speeding up of the process would have allowed Henry Archer's dream to be fulfilled - and Archer resents that his father went to his grave not seeing that, when he could have.

As for his remark to T'Pol, I am thinking last straw, meet camel's back.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Threatening T'Pol with physical violence.. if I did that in any job I've had I would be fired on the spot. Really awful thing to have your brand new Trek captain say. You want him to be a macho take charge dude, have him say that to a Klingon in a fight situation, not to a visiting woman from an alien delegation during a meeting.

Thankfully we never saw a repeat of that but I really wonder how it could have passed all the editing etc.. he could have expressed frustration and let us know he was shitty with the Vulcans in a hundred different ways. Awful choice.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Threatening T'Pol with physical violence..

It wasn't a threat because he said it was something he wasn't going to do. As such, it was an angry remark.

if I did that in any job I've had I would be fired on the spot. Really awful thing to have your brand new Trek captain say. You want him to be a macho take charge dude, have him say that to a Klingon in a fight situation, not to a visiting woman from an alien delegation during a meeting.

His response was to a condescending remark from that same visiting woman. Archer's words weren't diplomatic, but then he wasn't there to be diplomatic, but to be told why the launch of his ship should be delayed so close to the end.

In a fight situation with a Klingon, Archer usually responds with a phase pistol or an order to fire the ship's weapons.

Thankfully we never saw a repeat of that but I really wonder how it could have passed all the editing etc.. he could have expressed frustration and let us know he was shitty with the Vulcans in a hundred different ways. Awful choice.

It wasn't meant to be a nice thing to say--that was the point of it. But it also wasn't a one-sided thing either.

 

[KimMH]

Maybe part of the point is letting the starship captains be starship captains and letting the diplomats be diplomats. It would fit in well with Archer's eventual realization that a coalition of planets would be better for participating members and help stabilize the area. Too much of a leap?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I remember reading an early interview (don't know if it was with Berman or Braga) which described Archer as being less polished than Kirk, Picard, etc. That he had to learn the things about dealing with new alien civilizations--including mistakes--that would be taught for later Starfleet captains.

 

[eyeresist]

Imagine a comparable situation in our modern armed forces. In the real world, a guy who shows such a lack of self-control would probably not be put in charge of a starship.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

He doesn't show any particular stand out abilities that put him there IMO.

Okay he sometimes has people skills, with humans. But what the heck else is there that put him there? Engineering, no. Science, no. Weapons, no. Diplomacy, FAIL.

Now he did step up to the plate, his learning curve was stupidly steep but he did it. But what was it that got him in the seat to begin with?