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After Star Trek 3 would you want an immediate reboot?

Not to drag this in to a "Into Darkness Sucks!/No it doesn't" debate, but several forum polls (not just this one, but back on the official boards), as well as a convention poll put Into Darkness reception among the community as mixed, if not lukewarm or downright hostile, depending on the community.

One story on it: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/aug/14/star-trek-into-darkness-voted-worst

Sure, every film has its detractors and I won't make any arguments against that. I happen to enjoy Abrams films but that is not true of every one. The negative reception and subsequent backlash by Lindelof has not helped matters.

Like I said, I personally like it and several people do. But, the mixed reaction and negative press has not helped matters.

No. I think we've talked about this with you before. If it's mixed.. then its 2 parts against it... 8 parts for it?

IMDB - 7.9/10 user rating
Amazon.com - 4.3/5 user rating
Rotten Tomatoes - 87% Fresh Rating - 93% User Rating (304,475 Rating)
Fandango - 5/5 user rating

Devin Fararci supposedly measuring applause from a room of 100 convention goers is not something I would hang my hat on to.

Which, is, as I have said, it is mixed. And I don't know if a third film is going to be solidly swinging people one way or another.

I don't hang my hat on anything, nor do I throw my weight behind most online forums, and the like. Perhaps the opponents to the film are more outspoken or the verbiage is more hostile. It is something that I have noticed, and could produce excerpts to both sides of the argument.

I'm not sure who you have "told this before," because I am generally in the pro-Abrams camp. I like Abrams-verse, and I want to see more of it. Give me a series featuring a new Constitution class and crew, set in that world and I am for it, 100%.

Please do not mistake my reservations regarding studios and fan bases to be a lack of support for the current reboot. I just see no problem in the possibility of another one either.
 
^ This a thousand times.

Star Trek is enjoying a cultural and financial popularity it hasn't seen in quite some time or before the JJ reboot. Star Trek is a mega success again, and for some reason that is a problem for some fans?

See, I think a phrase like 'Star Trek Is A Mega Success' is sheer hyperbole. I think it's been modestly well received, and is certainly successful in context of Star Trek movies, but it isn't exactly breaking down the doors and blowing through the bar in the grand scheme of things. Look at the numbers most movies make and ST2009 and STiD aren't exactly top tier. They're healthy enough, but calling them a 'Mega Success' would be pushing it IMO.
 
^ This a thousand times.

Star Trek is enjoying a cultural and financial popularity it hasn't seen in quite some time or before the JJ reboot. Star Trek is a mega success again, and for some reason that is a problem for some fans?

See, I think a phrase like 'Star Trek Is A Mega Success' is sheer hyperbole. I think it's been modestly well received, and is certainly successful in context of Star Trek movies, but it isn't exactly breaking down the doors and blowing through the bar in the grand scheme of things. Look at the numbers most movies make and ST2009 and STiD aren't exactly top tier. They're healthy enough, but calling them a 'Mega Success' would be pushing it IMO.

star trek 2009 can be called a mega success based on trek standard and it been an origin story. the film grossed 257m in the USA and 127m worldwide. that is huge for trek. a franchise that did not even have an international box office record. However, after that success, the sequel should have increased highly like say captain america 2 or xmen: days of future past. Both films saw a huge increase in commercial success in comparison to their first origin films but trek did not.

Into darkness earning 229m in the USA and 467m worldwide is no mega success. the film should have earned at least 500-700m worldwide as it is a sequel from a successful first film based on an origin story like x-men first class and captain america the first avenger.

I do not think Paramount is happy with the box office intake of Into Darkness.they definitely expected more and so did I.

It was shocking when Into Darkness earned 70m in the first weekend considering how the first film had earned 79m in its first weekend. There was obviously something not right.
 
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Captain America 2 span off of the mega-event crossover Avengers, so comparing it to CA 1 is unfair. And DoFP crossed over the prequel X-Men with the originals, and was again far from a straight sequel to First Class.

Into Darkness did well enough that a third movie is coming with the same cast. That's all I hoped for.
 
^ This a thousand times.

Star Trek is enjoying a cultural and financial popularity it hasn't seen in quite some time or before the JJ reboot. Star Trek is a mega success again, and for some reason that is a problem for some fans?

See, I think a phrase like 'Star Trek Is A Mega Success' is sheer hyperbole. I think it's been modestly well received, and is certainly successful in context of Star Trek movies, but it isn't exactly breaking down the doors and blowing through the bar in the grand scheme of things. Look at the numbers most movies make and ST2009 and STiD aren't exactly top tier. They're healthy enough, but calling them a 'Mega Success' would be pushing it IMO.

star trek 2009 can be called a mega success based on trek standard and it been an origin story. the film grossed 257m in the USA and 127m worldwide. that is huge for trek. a franchise that did not even have an international box office record. However, after that success, the sequel should have increased highly like say captain america 2 or xmen: days of future past. Both films saw a huge increase in commercial success in comparison to their first origin films but trek did not.

Into darkness earning 229m in the USA and 467m worldwide is no mega success. the film should have earned at least 500-700m worldwide as it is a sequel from a successful first film based on an origin story like x-men first class and captain america the first avenger.

I do not think Paramount is happy with the box office intake of Into Darkness.they definitely expected more and so did I.

It was shocking when Into Darkness earned 70m in the first weekend considering how the first film had earned 79m in its first weekend. There was obviously something not right.

Well yeah, this was kind of my point. By Trek movie standards, it hit it outta the park. No question there. The new movies have by far and away managed to exceed expectations on that score. But I do object to AllStarEnterprise's assertion that the new movies have been a 'Mega Success'. That implies that the new movies have thrust Star Trek back into the A-Game. I think they've certainly restored some credibility to Star Trek in the eyes of the mainstream audience. But I certainly don't think either of the Abrams movies have actually broken into the top tier. They've both been relatively well received, but 'Mega Success'? No. Star Trek is still seen as a niche product. People are liking the movies, but from my experience they still aren't seeing them as anything bigger than the sum of the franchise as a whole. Which, as we know, exists within a kind of niche...

I think Paramount fumbled the play when it came to the new movies. I think Paramount could have really spun this new round of Star Trek into a revitalization of the franchise, perhaps really broken out into that mainstream. I think Paramount made a few blunders that stopped them from doing this. Things like not getting a GOOD action figure line out there, or making some pretty elementary errors in terms of not publisizing the franchise as a whole off the back of the new movies' popularity. The video game tie-in was maybe their big BIG chance to really kick off the franchise and spin up some buzz, but as we know that didn't turn out so well. Part of the problem is undoubtedly the splitting of the movie and television divisions, so on some levels there was never the chance that they could ever present a united front in the name of 'Star Trek'. In order for modern Star Trek to *truly* be a 'Mega Success', it needs to build a cache where it can stand toe-to-toe with other franchises out there, rather than simply being judged as being it's own little niche. I still don't think the two Abrams movies have done that. They're great, and they've been received well by a broad audience. But they aren't Big Time Players on the movie stage. Instead of being a feather in Abrams' cap, I can't help feeling that when history is written, they're just going to be a footnote in his career: those two little movies he did before taking center seat on Star Wars.

For better or worse, the phrase "Star Trek Movie" still carries some unfortunate negative connotations. The Abrams movies could've fixed that, but I don't think they have. People see the new movies are something 'other' than normal Star Trek. When, in reality, they could have done so much, to bring the broader audience on-board and make them accept Star Trek as being something that isn't the purvue of "those guys who dress up at conventions". Star Wars never gets negative publicity for this kind of thing, even though it's fans dress up too. That's what I'm talking about.

To call them anything close to a 'Mega Success' is, I fear, a misnomer. :(
 
See, I think a phrase like 'Star Trek Is A Mega Success' is sheer hyperbole. I think it's been modestly well received, and is certainly successful in context of Star Trek movies, but it isn't exactly breaking down the doors and blowing through the bar in the grand scheme of things. Look at the numbers most movies make and ST2009 and STiD aren't exactly top tier. They're healthy enough, but calling them a 'Mega Success' would be pushing it IMO.

star trek 2009 can be called a mega success based on trek standard and it been an origin story. the film grossed 257m in the USA and 127m worldwide. that is huge for trek. a franchise that did not even have an international box office record. However, after that success, the sequel should have increased highly like say captain america 2 or xmen: days of future past. Both films saw a huge increase in commercial success in comparison to their first origin films but trek did not.

Into darkness earning 229m in the USA and 467m worldwide is no mega success. the film should have earned at least 500-700m worldwide as it is a sequel from a successful first film based on an origin story like x-men first class and captain america the first avenger.

I do not think Paramount is happy with the box office intake of Into Darkness.they definitely expected more and so did I.

It was shocking when Into Darkness earned 70m in the first weekend considering how the first film had earned 79m in its first weekend. There was obviously something not right.

Well yeah, this was kind of my point. By Trek movie standards, it hit it outta the park. No question there. The new movies have by far and away managed to exceed expectations on that score. But I do object to AllStarEnterprise's assertion that the new movies have been a 'Mega Success'. That implies that the new movies have thrust Star Trek back into the A-Game. I think they've certainly restored some credibility to Star Trek in the eyes of the mainstream audience. But I certainly don't think either of the Abrams movies have actually broken into the top tier. They've both been relatively well received, but 'Mega Success'? No. Star Trek is still seen as a niche product. People are liking the movies, but from my experience they still aren't seeing them as anything bigger than the sum of the franchise as a whole. Which, as we know, exists within a kind of niche...

I think Paramount fumbled the play when it came to the new movies. I think Paramount could have really spun this new round of Star Trek into a revitalization of the franchise, perhaps really broken out into that mainstream. I think Paramount made a few blunders that stopped them from doing this. Things like not getting a GOOD action figure line out there, or making some pretty elementary errors in terms of not publisizing the franchise as a whole off the back of the new movies' popularity. The video game tie-in was maybe their big BIG chance to really kick off the franchise and spin up some buzz, but as we know that didn't turn out so well. Part of the problem is undoubtedly the splitting of the movie and television divisions, so on some levels there was never the chance that they could ever present a united front in the name of 'Star Trek'. In order for modern Star Trek to *truly* be a 'Mega Success', it needs to build a cache where it can stand toe-to-toe with other franchises out there, rather than simply being judged as being it's own little niche. I still don't think the two Abrams movies have done that. They're great, and they've been received well by a broad audience. But they aren't Big Time Players on the movie stage. Instead of being a feather in Abrams' cap, I can't help feeling that when history is written, they're just going to be a footnote in his career: those two little movies he did before taking center seat on Star Wars.

For better or worse, the phrase "Star Trek Movie" still carries some unfortunate negative connotations. The Abrams movies could've fixed that, but I don't think they have. People see the new movies are something 'other' than normal Star Trek. When, in reality, they could have done so much, to bring the broader audience on-board and make them accept Star Trek as being something that isn't the purvue of "those guys who dress up at conventions". Star Wars never gets negative publicity for this kind of thing, even though it's fans dress up too. That's what I'm talking about.

To call them anything close to a 'Mega Success' is, I fear, a misnomer. :(


I would not call the new films in the usa niche. any film that earns 200m in USA is good success and it shows popularity, worldwide is where it now counts. overall trek is finding its way. this film was a good chance for trek to pass 500m worldwide and become quite popular globally but it did not. many the the next film will fair better by paramount learning some of their mistakes.
 


I would not call the new films in the usa niche. any film that earns 200m in USA is good success and it shows popularity, worldwide is where it now counts. overall trek is finding its way. this film was a good chance for trek to pass 500m worldwide and become quite popular globally but it did not. many the the next film will fair better by paramount learning some of their mistakes.

I have a strong, optimistic feeling, regarding the learning from their mistakes. Both Abrams and Lindelof have admitted to mistakes, and the lower return will likely mean less of a budget for the next film. As TWOK demonstrated, that is not a bad thing.
 
The 2009 Trek was the most pirated movie that year.

My first assumption on that would be that it was a large segment of the Star Trek fandom that grew curious enough to want to see it, but did not in any way want to support it. The groups that were boycotting it I think.
 
The 2009 Trek was the most pirated movie that year.

My first assumption on that would be that it was a large segment of the Star Trek fandom that grew curious enough to want to see it, but did not in any way want to support it. The groups that were boycotting it I think.

Yeah, I'm not sure how a pirated movie indicates success, since doing so steals from the actual success of that film. It is a rather odd statement, in my opinion, but then piracy has become rather common in the Internet age, so I should not be surprised.

I think Trek 09 rebooted the series in every way, and that ID was a learning process involving leaning too heavily on source material and not exploring new aspects of the franchise. I think ID hit the right tone in terms of story that they wanted to tell, but it was not fresh enough for the fan base to fully support it. Again, it is still a divisive issue, as indicated by this discussion.
 
The 2009 Trek was the most pirated movie that year.

My first assumption on that would be that it was a large segment of the Star Trek fandom that grew curious enough to want to see it, but did not in any way want to support it. The groups that were boycotting it I think.

I doubt there are that many Trek fans that could cause such a bump. Unless they were pirating it over and over again for some reason.
 
The 2009 Trek was the most pirated movie that year.

And TWOK was the most pirated film by the writers of STID.

Heyooooo.

And it would had been amazing if Kirk dies and stays dead.


excellent and this is why I wished they had not gone the wrath of khan root in into darkness because they were in a no win scenario in terms of bad script writing.

the writers did not want kirk to stay dead because if he did. star trek 3 will be about his resurrection like the search for spock only this time it will be kirk who was been brought back ti life, the writers did not obviously want that so they chose to bring him back after 5 minutes after his death which defeats the purpose of his death and farewell scene and strips it away from any emotional substance like in wrath of khan when spock died.

so it was a no win scenario from them, borrowing heavenly from wrath of khan was always going to end or poorly in terms of story telling.
 
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