I loved that.
it's been a thousand (1000) years since he encountered the clockwork robots.
how likely is it, that he would remember that.
8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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I loved that.
it's been a thousand (1000) years since he encountered the clockwork robots.
how likely is it, that he would remember that.
^Not to mention post-regeneration amnesia and the brain 'rebooting', as he put it.
Clara's reaction to him surprised me at first, but upon further reflection it makes sense...
While Clara knew about regeneration, she [apparently] didn't have a lot of interaction with Doctors 1-10; she popped into their timelines and saved them, but 11 was HER Doctor, the one she knew. This was her first realization that he becomes both the same person and a different one, and that was [understandably] pretty jarring.
While Clara knew about regeneration, she [apparently] didn't have a lot of interaction with Doctors 1-10; she popped into their timelines and saved them, but 11 was HER Doctor, the one she knew. This was her first realization that he becomes both the same person and a different one, and that was [understandably] pretty jarring.
That scene is still on my mind, two days after having seen the episode. Quite impressive.
I don't think it was that. I don't even think it was a lack of understanding of the idea of a new incarnation being both the same and different.
She was just going through the stages of grief for Elven, pure and simple -- and among the stages of grief are bargaining and denial.
I agree with the few who've said Clara's reaction was understandable. We've seen no evidence that Clara actually went through a Regeneration with The Doctor before. Yes, she knows he's had many other faces, and that it's called Regeneration, she's never actually experienced or gotten to know any other incarnations, she's just popped into The timeline, done what needed to be done to cancel out The Great Intelligence's tampering, and then moved on.
This time, she watched her friend, that she may have liked more than just friends, die, and be replaced by a new man. Intellectually, she knows that's what he does, but, to think her experiences would prepare her for it, is (IMHO), about the same as knowing a close friend has a fatal disease and is wasting away, and expecting that would prepare you for them to die, just becauses you knew they were sick for months. Sure, intellectually, you know they're in a better place, and better off to no longer be suffering, but, that doesn't stop you from feeling the loss or feeling guilt that you didn't do this or do that.
As has also been pointed out, she watched him age 1000 years and die, in what was to her a single day (Kinda like watching someone else's life flash before your eyes)
All the education and knowledge in the world isn't going to completely prepare you for that, or stop the pain, and I believe people are projecting more experience with Regeneration onto her than she actually has.
This time, she watched her friend, that she may have liked more than just friends, die, and be replaced by a new man. Intellectually, she knows that's what he does, but, to think her experiences would prepare her for it, is (IMHO), about the same as knowing a close friend has a fatal disease and is wasting away, and expecting that would prepare you for them to die, just becauses you knew they were sick for months. Sure, intellectually, you know they're in a better place, and better off to no longer be suffering, but, that doesn't stop you from feeling the loss or feeling guilt that you didn't do this or do that.
As has also been pointed out, she watched him age 1000 years and die, in what was to her a single day (Kinda like watching someone else's life flash before your eyes)
All the education and knowledge in the world isn't going to completely prepare you for that, or stop the pain, and I believe people are projecting more experience with Regeneration onto her than she actually has.
I don't remember, does Clara remember going thru the Doctor's timeline saving him, or was that wiped?
I know she remembers some things, but doing what she did, she lived possibly hundreds or thousands of lives saving the Doctor. She can't possibly remember all those lives.
I know she remembers some things, but doing what she did, she lived possibly hundreds or thousands of lives saving the Doctor. She can't possibly remember all those lives.
In Day of the Doctor when Clara meets the Tenth Doctor and War Doctor, the Eleventh reminds her "you've met them before."
Speaking of porn, I think PC got a little too excited after his hug with Clara at that end, either that or he has more related to a horse than we thought?
If Jenna hugged you, would your reaction be any different? I know mine certainly wouldn't...
I'm sure it's also more jarring when it's *her* Doctor who changes. And, she probably expected that he would regenerate into a younger body. Humans are humans, and we'll judge by outer appearances, especially when it comes to potential mates!
Mr Awe
Were these robots actually supposed to be the same ones from The Girl in the Fireplace? Some people have been saying they are, but besides a few slight design similarities, they don't seem that similar. I just assumed it was another set of clockwork robots, its not like Doctor Who would be unwilling to do something like that. Even considering the fact that they've been harvesting humans, they just don't seem all that similar to the robots the 10th Doctor met.
Charlie Jane Anders at io9 has some fascinating insights into "Deep Breath" that I haven't seen in this thread so far:
I think these insights are important. The Twelfth Doctor is being really manipulative and undermining of Clara. And Anders is right -- it was the Doctor who admitted that he had thought of himself as Clara's boyfriend when he was Eleven.
Makes you wonder why Twelve is so much more negative towards Clara, so much more emotionally manipulative and controlling, than Eleven.
Charlie Jane Anders said:
I think these insights are important. The Twelfth Doctor is being really manipulative and undermining of Clara. And Anders is right -- it was the Doctor who admitted that he had thought of himself as Clara's boyfriend when he was Eleven.
Makes you wonder why Twelve is so much more negative towards Clara, so much more emotionally manipulative and controlling, than Eleven.
Regarding Jenny and Vastra, yea, there were several times where Vastra was quite "Misogynistic" towards Jenny, especially when she had Jenny posing, and her follow up comment about it. Not sure about the part of Jenny just pretending to be Vastra's Maid in Public, Vastra has made comments several times, along the lines of "I'm a Lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife", so, although, yea, there is that pretense, Vastra is quite open about their marriage, which, considering the era, is quite impressive and open-minded.
Speaking of porn, I think PC got a little too excited after his hug with Clara at that end, either that or he has more related to a horse than we thought?
If Jenna hugged you, would your reaction be any different? I know mine certainly wouldn't...
It would be the same and would never let her go!
Maybe still the Doctor, but not a Doctor she'd want to continue travelling with-- especially considering that only moments earlier he had seemingly abandoned her, and then put her through the anguish of thinking she was about to be killed and/or tortured by a bunch of scary cyborgs.
After something like that, I can definitely understand why she would need some more convincing to stay with him.
Infinity symbols, not bow-ties.
Like Amy, she does not really stay with him, she is home teaching at the school and goes off with him on random adventures when is pops by.
Episode 2, Pops by the school with the Tardis in the closet and picks up Clara for that adventure then returns her back 30 seconds after she left.
Episode 3, She is in the Tardis at the start of the episode and they are trying to figure out where to go.
Episode 4, The Doctor is in her apartment with the Tardis when she comes home, and they go from there.
Episode 5, Again the Doctor is in her apartment with the Tardis as when Clara is getting ready for a date, then the Doctor gets a call on the Tardis phone and they go from there.
Episode 2, Pops by the school with the Tardis in the closet and picks up Clara for that adventure then returns her back 30 seconds after she left.
Episode 3, She is in the Tardis at the start of the episode and they are trying to figure out where to go.
Episode 4, The Doctor is in her apartment with the Tardis when she comes home, and they go from there.
Episode 5, Again the Doctor is in her apartment with the Tardis as when Clara is getting ready for a date, then the Doctor gets a call on the Tardis phone and they go from there.
It did seem odd that Vastra treated Jenny more as a plaything rather than a partner. I'm not sure if Moffat intended to rebalance their relationship in that way or if he thought that complaints about being just a maid or the posing scene were only intended to be funny.