8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Samurai8472, Aug 23, 2014.


Grade "Deep Breath"

Poll closed Oct 2, 2014.
  1. Scottish!

    52 vote(s)
  2. Good

    74 vote(s)
  3. Average

    17 vote(s)
  4. Bad

    8 vote(s)
  5. I miss Matt Smith

    5 vote(s)
  1. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 27, 2007

    Welcome back everyone! We start a very new and intense era tomorrow(officially ;) )


    Please be kind to the ten people that haven't seen the leaked 1st episode and use spoiler coding

    With that said. Expect alot of comparisons to Malcolm tucker(without the cursing)

    From what I've heard

    Alot of drawn out talking scenes and Clara not acting like she should be acting
  2. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

    Oct 13, 2003
    RIP Leonard Nimoy
    Overall, better than I expected and a pretty good regeneration episode. Looks like Capladi is going to be a bit more of an old-school Doctor.
  3. chardman

    chardman Vice Admiral In Memoriam

    Sep 5, 2001
    The home of GenCon
    Enjoyed the Hell out of it. Think Capaldi will do just fine.
    The phone call near the end made me laugh and cry at the same time.
  4. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

    Good (not Great), Peter is clearly old school as they come and his acting will never be in any doubt but the slower pacing and the fact he's not a youthful doctor will impact the audience IMO. However for us older folks (I say that at the grand old age of 27) I have no issue and will continue to enjoy the show...

    The Matt Smith cameo was awesome and made me realise how bad I will miss 11.
  5. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Jul 30, 2005
    Kavala, Greece
    And the Doctor has officially landed!

    OK, I'll say this right off the bat: This is not better than The Eleventh Hour, or the classic Spearhead from Space. It is, however, pretty high on the list of post-regeneration stories, at third place in fact - fourth if we were to count Rose as such a story.

    Capaldi really is the most confused of the Doctors after regeneration, that we've seen in a while. Since War's retroactive birth, all the Doctors had minor if any difficulties adjusting, 10 being the more obvious case against it - but then again, he was only confused because the Time Vortex energy that he absorbed from Rose was kicking in and that made him physically exhausted. Here, the Twelfth Doctor is seriously worried about his nature, whether he's a good or bad influence and I suspect thats because he's essentially a rebooted version of himself that he worries that, maybe, he rebooted himself too much. This is, until told otherwise, a whole new line of Doctors that begins here. I love how Capaldi is slighly acting like the Eleventh when he sees that Dinosaur in Victorian London, and then slowly settles in, personality-wise. He really does have a different gravitas from the get-go, and is far more serious than any Doctor since, well, the Sixth.

    Anyway, I thought it was a solid episode, although it was a bit too long in the beginning. However, I like that there was some effort to make scenes have an actual pace instead of it being fast-paced all the time. I liked the villain, liked the direction a lot, and certainly enjoyed the ending(s) a lot. And while I do not like the Paternoster gang in general, they kinda worked in the story more than often, even though I fear this might be yet another pilot to a show about them.

    And yes, I did not like Clara's characterization. At least, not as presented. The common problem with Clara has always been, that she has no discernible or specific personality, changing from episode to episode depending on the writer. Thus the character lacks any internal continuity, because she's never been as obviously standing out as companions of the past have, like Amy and Rory, obviously. As such, Moffat's way of using her character to channel the young fan-girls and prompt them to keep watching the show because, even if he now does look like an old man, he's still the same as before, is slightly, if not entirely baffling. I don't mind that she's having a bit of problem adjusting to the new Doctor - he changed before her eyes, thats expected, shock and everything. However, the level with which she treats him throughtout is just astonishingly annoying. Particularly at the end, and you all know what I mean there. If she hadn't just met two of the Doctor's past incarnations, or met all of them through her split personalities in the Doctor's timeline before, I'd be more forgiving. But she did. Thus, her behaviour in this is totally inexcusible.

    Despite this, I really enjoyed it. I've seen the rough, B&W cut six weeks ago, but I didn't say anything as not to spoil anything. However seeing this now, I enjoyed it a tad more. Capaldi's Doctor, admitteldy, takes a bit getting used to, especially after the spontaneity of Doctors 9-11. However, I am confident that he find his fans, very soon, and I am hoping that most NuWho will equally accept him.

    And thus a new era of Who is ushered.
  6. mirandafave

    mirandafave Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 26, 2008
    I thought it was great. Maybe not buy a cinema entrance fee great but it was a good re-introduction story with the Doctor adjusting to who he was and of course Clara adjusting too. Perhaps she ought not to have been as troubled by the whole face change thing but I suppose in a way she still has lost her friend only to have him replaced in a big way.

    The story worked well in the end with the enemy talk down ending up paralleling surely some of the Doctor's own internal thoughts - you've changed and replaced yourself so much you're hardly who you were anymore sounds very like it could be addressed to himself. The quandary at the end as to how the big bad ended up where he ended is delicious in terms of putting something about The Doctor's nature up in the air but it may prove to be more alienating than the older face change for some fans.

    It was one of the better outings for the Paternast Gang as they actually seemed alien in a Victorian setting but also fitting into it too. Likewise, I like that Vastra served to chide Clara some but also loved Clara standing up to Vastra too. From that point, Clara became a lot more Clara than she had been.

    As for the cameo of Eleven it was touching and nicely fitted in and of course we got Clara then no longer seeing the veil when it came to the new Doctor. A nice moment.

    The cameo served to yes remind us that 11 will be missed and in many ways one wonders if some of the criticisms levelled at 11 might not have been made had the pacing in his episodes been more like this one. It was refreshing to not have everything being too frantic, even if I like the frantic especially at times. Here however, the climax at the end build more on tension than frantic hollering and of course Capaldi's Doctor was menacing and intimidating but in a soft spoken manner building to anger. Likewise, the Clara holding her breath to escape scene was excellent I thought and of course was at a point when we thought The Doctor had abandoned Clara (yeah sure he was bound to come back for her no doubt but had left her to her own devices to survive). It was a great moment for Clara and for The Doctor to be revealled there all along.

    All in all, the high hopes I have for Capaldi's Doctor so far are holding up.

    Questions then at the end as to who Missy is and her agenda.
    Is Missy the person who gave Clara the number?
    Is Missy the person who put the ad in the paper?
    Who is Missy? - Clara? River?
  7. Pindar

    Pindar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Apr 20, 2001
    NCC - 1031
    Thoroughly enjoyed it. It all worked for me,except, perhaps for Clara.

    A good start I think. I thought Matt Smith's performance was a bit phoned in.

    I love having a Scottish Doctor with attack eyebrows.

    On sold on P-Cap and look forward to the bitching about him and Moffat that is sure to come.
  8. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

    Apr 22, 2001
    Behind Enemy Lines
    That was exceptionally enjoyable. I think it lacked that certain spark to knock it into excellent but if every episode of the series is that good we're in great hands.

    Some observations. Capaldi is very good, and I like the fact that they're playing up a certain dangerous side without necessarily going the whole way. The entire "One of us is lying about his basic programming" did he fall/was he pushed was excellent.

    Is he as instantly as accessible as Matt? No, but I like him better than I expected to (and I did expect to like him.)

    Clara: How awesome was Jena in this? I haven't always been the biggest fan of the character but if she keeps this up she might go down in history as a great companion (she's fluctuated before so we'll see)

    Jenny and Vestra were great, Strax seemed a little subdued though.

    The overall plot was interesting, despite the fact Moffat was riffing on himself, actually considering it was a semi-sequel to TGITFP it felt quite fresh.

    In fact the only thing that annoyed me was ripping off a great broom joke from Only Fools and Horses.

    I'm really gonna miss Matt though :(
  9. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

    May 7, 2010
    frankly they could've cut all that dinosaur nonsense at the start and just had a really good normal length episode. but as it is it took too long to get going. capaldi is awesome though.
  10. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

    Jan 31, 2007
    Well, that was fun. Capaldi works for me, but then I'm biased cos I always liked him in stuff. Who'd have thought they'd have made a Doctor that's even *more* like me than any of the others?

    Downsides - Clara should be *well* acquainted with regeneration, having seen fucking all of them, and I'm praying Missy isn't the obvious, because if it is, then casting is rubbish. As is the cheesy lack of subtlety.
  11. Flibble

    Flibble Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 24, 2003
    I enjoyed Deep Breath but my one small problem is that sometimes I could not understand what Peter Capaldi was saying as his accent is quite heavy in some places.
  12. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 3, 2012
    The bed of whoever pays for the night.
    Surprisingly good, more mature than Moffat's usual stuff which certainly made it better. Capaldi played the part well and I've already begun to warm to him, it took me about two and a half series for me to begin warming to Smith, this episode makes me even happier Smith has gone!

    So yeah good episode, I hope the series keeps it up, I really need a continuous run of good episodes, the past three series have been punishment enough!
  13. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Mar 17, 2011
    I thought the re-cap of all the previous Doctors was a bit unnecessary, though funny.
  14. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Aug 21, 2011
    The Black Country, England
    Didn't much like it. Not exactly a great episode, and if they want Vastra and co. on T.V. this often, give them a spin off show. Nothing against them, but they're getting a bit overused.

    Capaldi failed to impress, but I do like him. I'd like to see him in a decent episode once he's fully 'The Doctor' to really make up my mind.

    There were a few nice moments and I liked the new music and titles..
  15. TommyR01D

    TommyR01D Captain Captain

    Oct 28, 2011
    There were a big few problems I found:

    1. Obviously, it is deeply overlong at 80 minutes (longer than the 50th anniversary special) and I would prefer if the extra time had been used in a 13th episode instead. If nothing else, it will make syndication somewhat trickier.

    2. Visually, some parts of the episode look a bit off - the CGI used for the dinosaur and some shots of Westminster resembles that of the Star Wars prequel films and at times there were brief sequences edited together in a way which made them look almost cartoonish (like the Doctor falling onto the horse).

    3. There were some irritating traces of Smith-era Moffat-ness during the scenes set in Vastra's house (like the whole gimmick with the veil), and some of Clara's lines felt like they were written for a play rather than a TV show.

    Smaller problems:

    4. The new title sequence is awful. I used to joke about the Series 5 titles looking like a YouTube fan effort (especially with the filters in 7.1) but now they actually did it - why?! It seems a shame to waste the previous version after only half a series.

    5. There were a few references that hardly anyone will get: I think the broom analogy was an Only Fools & Horses shoutout, the "androids and apostrophes" probably meant Data and the whole setup of the robots harks back to The Girl In The Fireplace... which actually happened EIGHT YEARS ago! It seems almost classical now.

    6. Both the Coal Hill classroom stuff and the "Promised Land" appear to be this years story arcs. This is on top of the Impossible Girl mystery which has already been going since (effectively) 2012, plus I imagine there will need to eventually be some kind of follow-up to the status of the Time Lords. I hope that it won't all add together to bury all the individual episodes under tangles of continuity like it did in Series 6 and 7.

    Apart from that, Deep Breath was excellent, and I hope it sets the tone for the rest of the Series.
  16. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Jul 30, 2005
    Kavala, Greece
    I liked the title sequence, actually, although I do prefer the original effort by that fan that actually impressed Moffat enough to do what he did in the first place. Its the new theme song that I don't like very much.
  17. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Liked it, but didn't love it.

    * I quite like the visuals of the opening, not sure about the theme though. It sounded very sixties. Needs a stronger bassline.

    * Was anyone else bothered by the scale of the T Rex? Surely they weren't Godzilla sized in real life?

    * Clara is at about the point I felt about Amy during her first series. Okay, a bit annoying, but she seems likeable enough.

    * Regen stories are really tricky beasts. With his jumbled personality, its difficult to tell what he's really like. That'll come next week I suppose.

    * And yes, got a bit teary-eyed during the phone call.

    * I guess we know now when Twelve had time to fly back and help themselves save Gallifrey.

    * * So the continuing threat this series is Mary Poppins. This should be interesting.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  18. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 26, 2001
    Hmm. I met some friends for a few drinks beforehand so my initial thoughts may not be the most reliable until on.

    Did like: the CGI, the quasi-sequel to TGITFP (I suspect that will have been lost on a lot of viewers, though), the dialogue and the small matter of a certain Scottish actor. Not to mention the various in-jokes about him being Scottish.

    Didn't like: the new credits, the fact that Clara, who has seen all the previous Doctors, couldn't cope with a new regeneration. And, perhaps, surprisingly, Matt Smith's cameo. Yes, the continuity with the hanging phone was good. But Smith was my favourite Doctor. And reminding me of how good he was was never going to be the best way to establish a new doctor, even one to whom I was already disposed to like. It struck me as a very big miscalculation on the part of Moffatt. While intended to endear us to Capaldi, it made me pine for Smith.

    In terms of nuWho, I'd say a better intro than Eccleston or Tennant (by far, in the latter's case) but behind Smith's debut.
  19. Han(Solo)ukkah

    Han(Solo)ukkah Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Apr 26, 2004
    They've redecorated the beginning. I don't like it.
  20. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

    Apr 12, 2000
    New Zealand
    No, size of a bus usually.

    I thought it was weird to do a Doctor lite story (like The Christmas Invasion) when The Eleventh Hour showed how it should be done (although granted RTD had wiped the slate clean so Moffat had no choice to put Smith in every scene with that one).

    Clara is just weird. She should be used to the concept of regeneration more than any other companion in the history of the show. Big miss there.

    The show doesn't hold 80 minutes. The whole dinosaur scene is unnecessary and clearly filler, as is the oh-so not funny "Strax does a medical exam" scene. Strax doesn't understand human anatomy. We get it.

    I'm probably the only person who hated the Smith cameo. Very unnecessary and took the heat away from Capaldi's fire.

    Capaldi was ok in the role and I'm chalking up any issues I have with being nervous in the role.

    Good start but we've had better.