What did Lucas do?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Anduril, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Anduril

    Anduril Captain Captain

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    To "ruin" the Star Wars franchise? After seeing all the rage lately, it has made me wonder what was so bad about how he handled the prequels. I personally enjoyed all the films and have always felt that any new Star Wars was a good thing.

    I look forward to the new films, but something seems wrong to me about cranking them out every few years.
     
  2. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seriously? Just go watch the Red Letter Media films.
     
  3. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Essentially he choose to direct all three prequels and did a terrible job at it.
     
  4. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]



    And also neutering the fearsomeness of Darth Vader to a whiny teen
     
  5. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    He ruined them by being more interested in the effects than the story. Also he'd rather sell tons of terribly made merchandise and spend time re-releasing the same movies over and over. When it really came down to it all George Lucas has is Star Wars and he's milking it for all its worth. Now Disney is clearly going to do the same, because hey, its Disney, but in any future installments of films without just the sole input of the Bearded One maybe they can get some quality back in the films.

    That's the thing I like the most, while Disney doesn't always put out gold at least there can be some fresh perspectives for Star Wars.
     
  6. DarthTom

    DarthTom Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? You feel the same way about Star Trek? Eleven feature films, [the 12th on it's way in 2013] and 6 different television shows including a cartoon series - with 4 of the TV shows happening over the course of twenty some odd years [even overlapping at one point] and you don't think that was over kill?

    ST IV released in '88

    ST V released in '89

    ST VI released '91

    ST Generations released in '94

    ST First Contact released in '96

    ST Insurrection released in '98

    ST Nemesis released in 2002


    If Disney milks wars half as well as Paramount milked Trek they'll get their $4 billion back in merchandizing, film revenue and even possibly TV revenue back 10 fold.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  7. Anduril

    Anduril Captain Captain

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    I enjoyed the progression of Vader from a "whiny teen" to what we saw in the OT. Would it have been better to have Anakin just waiting to turn to Vader? Adds more depth to the character and the OT IMO.
     
  8. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    + Chefelf's "Reasons to Hate" series. Too lazy to link, but easily googlable.
     
  9. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think Lucas ruined Star Wars, though I wish the prequels had been better (especially The Phantom Menace) and focused more on character than special effects. I have to admit that I did think he 'ruined' Vader for me. Even though I don't loath Hayden Christensen's performance, the Vader from the original films is diminished by Anakin's prequel portrayal.

    Also, I didn't like all the Chosen One, virgin birth stuff, or Lucas making Vader the center of the Star Wars saga. The prophecy he came up with seemed to fit Luke better, and I have to wonder if it was all about selling the prequels that compelled Lucas to make it otherwise. Also I haven't cared for his tinkering with the originals. I didn't mind adding some special effects or a scene here or there to make them fit more with the prequels but sometimes I felt he was just changing stuff just to change it, to create more incentive for fans to dig back into their pockets.
     
  10. Anduril

    Anduril Captain Captain

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    From my understanding, Lucas felt constrained by the special effects technology of the day, so when he had a chance with modern tech, he went wild. I've always been a special effects junky so the PT was a thrill for me.

    I never expected any "haughty" science fiction from these movies. They are what they are. Some people just like their original popcorn flicks from the modern popcorn flicks.
     
  11. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not so sure that an unlimited SFX budget is such a good thing.. you can show pretty mucn anything your mind conceives with digital technology these daysbut i believe it makes you lazy.

    Lucas was forced to improvise in the 70s because the tech wasn't ready for his visions but did it take away in any shape or form from the movies? Movies should tell a story, have characters act in them but where's the story in a 20 minute speeder race whose sole purpose is to free one of the main characters so he can tag along with the others?

    It's about 15 minutes longer than it needs to be.. it's just eyecandy and that's what's wrong with Lucas.. for me.

    He turned from a storyteller to a showman.. he replaced story with flashy effects and action scenes and thus did a huge disservice to his movies. The new movies are just a collection of CGI set pieces and action scenes to wow you with the visuals but the characters (and thus also the actors) were very bland bordering on terrible.
     
  12. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Let's not forget how bad the writing was. The best director ever wouldn't have been able to salvage that garbage.

    The effects aren't the problem. A solid director with a solid script could stuff the movie full of snazzy SFX and not hurt anything. Directing and writing (and acting, which is partly the responsibility of the director) are the core of moviemaking. If you don't have those, it's like trying to build a house on sand, No foundation, it falls down.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    By making Anakin whiny, no one actually cared about his path to becoming Vader. There was no moment where we felt for the characters downfall because we didn't care about the character.
     
  14. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    @FP Alpha: Quite. As The Phantom Editor has pointed out, at the time the OT was made, Lucas actually criticized earlier, less popular sci-fi productions for dwelling on eye candy instead of telling the leanest, most efficient story. On the AOTC dvd, however, he says the Obi/Jango fight scene is mainly there to show off Fett's cool jetpack. Lucas didn't just gain the tools to put anything he wanted on screen; he lost the filmmaking sharpness to make things "faster, and more intense!"
     
  15. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, it would have added more depth if he was actually likeable first. The fall of Vader was supposed to be a tragedy. It isn't one if you don't like him in the first place. It's more like, "Fine, good riddance."

    Plus it kind of undercuts his redemption in ROTJ. The natural reaction is, "So what if he came back to the side of good? HE'S STILL A JERK!"

    Edit: Curses, BillJ beat me to it!
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Seems we're in the same exact page regarding Anakin. :techman:
     
  17. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, there's so many things wrong with the prequels, it's hard to know where to start, and we've been over it so many times before, it's hard to get motivated to start listing them all, but Anakin's characterization is the single worst thing, and even if that had been the only problem, it would have been enough to sink the prequels on its own,

    A story starts with the main character and the audience's interest lies in having some sympathy for that character. The guy could be a gangster or a serial killer, but as long as the writer give us some "in" to liking the charatcer in some way, we're along for the ride.

    But Lucas gave Anakin no likable qualities at all, or even qualities we could respect. He wasn't smart, he wasn't strong, he wasn't noble, he wasn't even a cool, powerful, villian. He was contemptable, which is far worse than merely being evil.

    Contrast him with the Emporer, who everyone seems to like as a character. Why? He's not a weakling, that's why! Lucas picked the one ironclad way to sabotage his main character. After that, there was no salvaging the story.

    If you want to see what Lucas ahould have done instead, watch The Clone Wars.
     
  18. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What sabotaged the prequels in a larger sense is that Lucas had no adult supervision since he was not working for a public corporation with shareholders and a board of directors to answer to, who could have kicked butt if substandard movies were made that underperformed.

    The prequels did well, but in this era of mega-hits, they probably could have done much better if they had had competent storylines and a character who had some quality that made the audience interested in his saga.

    The most damning evidence in the box office is that Phantom Menace did the best out of all three. It got the benefit of pent-up demand and squandered it. The other two shold have built on that lead, especially ROTS, the big finale with the epic battle everyone's been waiting 30 years to see. But by then, too much of the audience had been alienated.

    It may sound strange to be happy that the bean counters are taking over, but even the most cold-blooded corporate hacks wouldn't permit the kind of total ineptitude that characterized the prequels. For starters, the scripts seemed like first drafts, and somebody should have demanded a rewrite to whip them into even a craftsmanlike level of competence, nevermind brilliance.

    Disney's going to at least shoot for the level of the Marvel movies. Not all of them have been equally good, Iron Man 2 for instance, but that quality would be a vast improvement over the prequels. And churning movies out every few years shouldn't be an issue if its not an issue for all the other action-fantasy franchises.
     
  19. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    Watching embarrassingly dumb portrayals of governments in action, listening to old guys spew out incredibly asinine philosophies, enduring "political intrigue" as understood by an 8-year-old, and watching mostly good to decent actors intentionally directed into wooden planks does not make for a popcorn movie.

    But hey, the scenery was pretty, so all is forgiven.
     
  20. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    1. He made every character stiff and boring as hell.

    2. He wrote the most stilted dialogue imagineable.

    3. He made Anakin an annoying, whiny, unlikeable dick.

    4. He completely left out any of the wonderful charm and spirit of the OT.
     

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