My name is.....SORAN!

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Khan 2.0, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 30, 2013
    earth...but when?...spock?
    James T. Kirk: Who the hell are you?

    John Harrison: A remnant of a race long forgot. A race of listeners, superior so as to lead others to peace. But we were attacked by a cybernetic race and forced into exile. For years we travelled, hoping things would be different. But as a result of the destruction of Vulcan your Starfleet began to aggressively search distant quadrants of space. My ship was found adrift. I alone was captured

    James T. Kirk: I looked up John Harrison. Until a year ago he didn't exist.

    John Harrison: John Harrison was a fiction created the moment I was taken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity. My name is... SORAN.

    James T. Kirk: Why would a Starfleet admiral ask you for help?

    Soran: Because I am better.

    James T. Kirk: At what?

    Soran: Everything. Alexander Marcus needed to respond to an uncivilized threat in a civilized time, and for that, he needed an El-Aurians mind - my mind - to design weapons and warships.

    Spock: You are suggesting the Admiral violated every regulation he vowed to uphold, simply because he wanted to exploit your intellect.

    Soran: He wanted to exploit my knowledge of what is to come! Of what might have been in another reality! Intellect alone is useless in a fight, Mr. Spock. Marcus used me to design weapons. I helped him realize his vision of a militarized Starfleet. He sent you to use those weapons, to fire my torpedoes on a star that would cause it to collapse, and then he purposely crippled your ship in enemy space, leading to one inevitable outcome: the Klingons would come searching for whoever was responsible, and you would have no chance of escape. Marcus would finally have the war he talked about, the war he always wanted.

    James T. Kirk: No, I watched you open fire in a room full of unarmed Starfleet officers! You killed them in cold blood!

    Soran: Marcus took my people from me!

    James T. Kirk: You are a murderer!

    Soran: He used my friends to control me. I tried to smuggle them to safety by concealing them in the very weapons I have designed. But I was discovered. I had no choice but to escape alone. And when I did, I had every reason to suspect that Marcus had killed every single one of the people I hold most dear. So I responded in kind. My people are my family, Kirk. Is there anything you would not do for your family?


    Spock: Mr Spock.
    Spock Prime: Mr Spock.
    Spock: I will be brief. In your travels, did you ever encounter a man named Soran?
    Spock Prime: As you know, I have made a vow never to give you information that could potentially alter your destiny. Your path is yours to walk, and yours alone. That being said, Doctor Tolian Soran is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you.
    Spock: Did you defeat him?
    Spock Prime: At great cost, yes.
  2. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Aug 22, 2002
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Alt-alt-verse fic?
  3. Trump Stig

    Trump Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 28, 2004
    Behind the wheel.
    I'm fairly certain this isn't the FanFic forum.

    Also, Soran couldn't give two shits about anyone except Soran.
  4. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 30, 2013
    earth...but when?...spock?
    soran could have made kind of sense as:

    -more intelligent/stronger than a human

    -obsessed with family

    -part of an escaped race in exile (due to the borg - El Aurians attacked by borg in 2265 in PT but Neros interference may have brought it forward pre STID 2259 - esp since his vessel was borgified thus maybe alerting the borg sooner)

    -would possibly be around the age Cumberbatch is in 2259 (Generation Ent B opening takes place in 2293)

    -BC is british and kind of looks/talks like a young Malcolm MacDowell

    -responsible for killing Kirk (again)

    -dresses in black jumpsuit

    -ability to detect alternate realities/things arent be as they should could’ve been a fun thing for the story (see Guinan in Yesterdays Ent)
  5. Jack Skellington

    Jack Skellington Commodore Commodore

    Nov 16, 2007
  6. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Jun 20, 2003
    Bloom County
    Yup. They're both Brits.

    Well, I don't think it would work. No one outside Trek fans gives two shits about Star Trek: Generations.
  7. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

    May 26, 2013
    Everett, Washington
    Why does that argument keep cropping up?

    Let's nip this one, nobody in the general audience will "give a shit" about anyone from the Trek mythos beyond whether they provide solid entertainment value. The only people who will care either way are the fans. So it makes no difference whether you use Soran, Khan, Kang, Kor, Koloth, Garth of Izar, or Garry Mitchell. What matters is whether they're well written, well performed, and impress upon the audience a sense of gravitas, pathos, and importance.

    Now, i'm not saying Soran was the way to go... I just don't understand the logic behind "the mass audience won't care." They won't care about any of this, one way or the other. They're not in it for that. All they care about is whether the movie is entertaining. Right? :)
  8. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 15, 2006
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    When was this ever mentioned

    No he was obsessed with getting back to the Nexus

    Also why would Marcus give a crap about the El-Aurians outside of being another reason to militarize Starfleet.

    Not to mention I think they should use some TOS villains instead of bringing up TNG villains.

    Yeah I'd rather not waste time mentioning that the timeline has changed since they're probably never going to reset button it.
  9. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    I like how people always forget that this film was advertised with John Harrison. Khan was a secret and surprise. People went in to see Kirk & Co go against Benedict Cumberbatch who delivers deep voiced monologues while looking menacing.

    The point being? The name of the villain was completely irrelevant. It could have been Soran, it could have been Khan, it could have been John Doe, it could have been John Harrison.

    All those "the audience doesn't care for a villain unless its Khan" arguments are nonsense.
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Trek's first two big Trek moneyspinners (TMP, ST IV) both had a mysterious, menacing, space probe as the villain.
  11. MrJ

    MrJ Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Aug 5, 2011
    Well, I think this is brilliant. And it further shows how unnecessary it was for Khan to be in STiD. Just a simple change to the expository backstory dialogue and Soran perfectly fits instead of Khan. Actually, it would even make more sense for Soran to be the bad guy. As a member of an advance alien race would be a much better choice to make advance weapons and ships than some 20th century despot frozen for 300 years.
  12. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 19, 2013
    Perfectly fits. Well fits as being intelligent and English.

    * As The Stig has said Soran only cares about Soran and its really unlikely that Starfleet would hold Soran's biological family hostage. 20th century criminals maybe but not kids and a wife.
    * In the 23rd century Soran is presumably some sort of happy guy.
    * Other El Aurians are known to be hanging around Earth who might help Soran out

    I agree he fits the same sort of arrogant personality though. I don't really care that much if the enemy's TNG or TOS but Soran fits no better than Khan
  13. teacock

    teacock Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 20, 2007
    inside teacake
    But Soran is blonde!
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Jul 23, 2001
    It would have worked. No one expects Soran to be revisited, hell I don't even think the novels have done anything with him, so it really would be a twist if he were John Harrison's true identity. Plus he permanently killed Kirk and destroyed the Enterprise, making him a legitimate threat. And finally it could have left the door open for the Borg to be brought into Trek XIII which you know Bad Robot's salivating to attempt.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen
    I don't think it would have worked, but it would have explained why Harrison actually seemed to care about his 'crew'. The Khan I am familiar with cares nothing about anyone but himself (Well, maybe Joachim. But that's it. :lol: ) That's one of the things I didn't "get" about the film - it actually made Khan care about people. His appearance in TOS made it clear that Khan cares nothing for anyone other than Khan. (Don't believe me? Look how he treated Marla McGivers.) Soran, for his part, would not have had this problem. But Khan would, since he was an Augment, and it's pretty much built-in that Augments have no compassion.
  16. Rootin' Tootin' Putin

    Rootin' Tootin' Putin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 22, 2006
    Well, it was said in "Space Seed" that the augments had superior ambitions, but I don't remember anything about them not being capable of compassion. It's been a while since I've seen "Space Seed", but I remember Khan being quite genuinely happy to see his people unfrozen, again.
    I would also guess that in his time on Ceti Alpha VI, he did all he could to struggle to keep his people alive, including his wife, Marla, which probably only increased his bitterness towards others outside his group and increased the deepness of the feelings of unity all the survivors on the planet had for each other.

    This following is the change to his name I'd have made.
    "John Harrison was a fiction created the moment I was taken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity. Some call me, Tim."

    Edited to add: Julian Bashir was an augment (though of another era), and he was full of compassion.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  17. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

    May 17, 2009
    "This is Ceti Alpha Five!" Khan
  18. teacock

    teacock Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 20, 2007
    inside teacake
    If the villain had been Soran would it have been Spock dead under the bridge?
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen
    Julian wasn't the same kind of Augment that Khan and his ilk were.
  20. Sigokat

    Sigokat Commander Red Shirt

    I read this same post on IMDB a while back, but there it looks like it was quoted from somewhere else as well. Not sure where though.

    I agree with what most have said, it doesn't matter if it was Khan, Soran, or whoever. Personally, I liked Soran as a villain because I liked Malcolm McDowell's performance, so I think it would have been neat, however ultimately it didn't really matter.