MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by bigdaddy, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    A "temporary measure" that lasted, oh, about 70 years, until they collapsed. And the important weapons they banned, the pistols which are used in the vast majority of all gun murders, stayed completely banned, along with a five year waiting period to buy a rifle, of which only about 220,000 have entered circulation. That is about one gun of a type rarely used in gun homicides for every 600 people. Pretty much all of Western Europe has more rifles than that. England and Wales still have more licensed rifles in civilian hands than that, about twice as many, and that number has gone up about 50 percent since 2000.

    So if Engand and Wales totally ban civilian gun ownership, as is often implied in this thread, yet they let five times as many people per capita have a rifle as Russia, indicating that Russia has a fifth the UK's rate of gun ownership, why would you be insisting that Russia has guns, and thus its high murder rate is a symptom of guns, while totally ignoring England's far more numerous guns?

    No, their murder rate doubled and fell back recently, not in sync with our own shifts. Which year do you want to use?
     
  2. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If this sounds pedantic and petty I'm sorry, but not only do I not give much if any weight to gturner's half baked statistics, but the following are NOT "countries":

    Martinique, Greenland, French Guiana, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Montserrat, Guadeloupe, the Cayman Islands, Anguilla, the British Virgin Islands.

    All of these are overseas colonial or constitutionally incorporated territories of either the United States or a European nation. They are not independent countries. This might just be the observations of an obsessive-compulsive geography nerd and nitpicker who's grown increasingly weary of gturner's repeated attempts to downplay and minimize American gun violence and murder rate, but a country or nation is a sovereign political unit and not a dependent territory of a stronger overseas power that controls most or all of its affairs.

    You can call Montserrat many things that are wonderful and descriptive, but "country" isn't one of them.

    What else you got?
     
  3. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    How much would you want to bet that the European possessors of those islands do NOT include the islands' homicides in the home county's murder statistics? ;)

    They need to count somewhere, which is probably why they're listed seperately, along with other countries.
     
  4. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    No, but perhaps there's a corresponding one word rule.

    "You said 'burrito'."
    "So? It's a common English word."
    "It's a Spanish word. That makes you hispanic."
    "No it doesn't."
    "Yes it does."
    "But I'm Spanish, so I can't be hispanic."
    "Oh."

    I've read that in the EU, or at least in US dealings with the EU, a person who immigrates to Europe from Mexico or Central or South America is "hispanic", but a Spaniard is not, because they are Europeans. It just gets more confusing from there, as you get into Spaniards who've lived in Mexico for generations, who switch from being Spaniards to being Hispanics by moving to Spain, where they might instead be classified as Americans by everyone but Americans. Who knows?
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    MEN.

    Overwhelmingly the problem. What's the gender divide on murders?
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    I'm not arguing anything else at the moment except that you got the facts wrong about Russia (one of a multitude of things you've gotten wrong in this thread and a tradition of wrongness you've carried on from other threads). Why are you incapable of just admitting you were wrong about there being a complete gun ban in present day Russia? You're calling people fools and five-year-old girls, yet you aren't even "man enough" to admit to making a mistake. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and call it an honest mistake rather than deliberate obfuscation.
     
  7. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Here's the reason.

    ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS LEAVE THE CITY OF CHICAGO TO BUY A GUN.

    Likewise, when you ponder as to why Washington, DC's murder rate has always been so high...

    ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS LEAVE THE CITY OF WASHINGTON TO BUY A GUN.

    And so forth and so on. You seem to think that Chicago and Washington and really every other example you throw at us is a city surrounded by a vast no-man's land where no human or creature can exist. Sadly for you, this isn't the case.
     
  8. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Women don't shoot, they poison.
     
  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All residents of the District of Columbia have to do to purchase guns with far greater ease is simply cross the Potomac River into Virginia. We've long been one of the most liberal states in America when it comes to the freedom to purchase, own and carry weapons and all somebody from Washington needs to do to quench his or her thirst for firearms is hop in their car and make a quick trip to the Old Dominion where the pickings are plentiful.

    Along the lines of what Squiggy said, D.C. isn't isolated in the middle of nowhere with a colossal moat full of genetically engineered super crocs and heavily armed Mad Max wasteland survivalists patrolling the territory on the opposite side.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I said murder, not shoot :)
     
  11. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    And all that killing is done to contol cocaine and heroin grown and imported illegally from... Wisconsin? No. That's not it. Maryland? No, that's not it either. The answer will come to me.

    But anyway, before Chicago or DC banned guns, nobody even had to leave the city to by one. Back in 66 or 67 they only used guns in 52 percent of murders, yet could buy them locally, while now they use guns in 83 percent of murders.

    People in Montana, Wyoming, and other high gun states don't use guns nearly that often in their murders. They tend to go for knives, even though they all apparently carry guns. Strange, no?

    Here's one of the studies from the 1960's. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/ZimringReduceKillings.htm

    Here's two showing how far Chicago has come in analyzing their shootings.

    http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...otings-Slightly-Up-Murders-Way-Up-What-Gives/

    Year to year accuracy rates, labeled "Marksmanship and effort", single shot kill probabilities, caliber ratings, etc. Everything but style points.

    And a recent city report, vastly more detailed and sophisticated than the early efforts.

    https://portal.chicagopolice.org/po...s/Statistical Reports/Murder Reports/MA11.pdf
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's from a 2000 report, but still...
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/wo.pdf

    Pretty ugly are the numbers regarding relatives, ugh:
    28.3% of females kill their spouses, only 6.8% of males do.
    10.4% of females kill their stepchildren or children, only 2.2% of males do that.
     
  13. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    We'll, I've just been concentrating on Chicago this last little bit (last link above) and women were 9.x percent of victims, but 10.4 percent of offenders, so, YOU"RE WINNING! :)

    There are some very intesting charts in it. The number of offenders has plummeted five fold (figure 20), while the number of murders has dropped only by roughly half, as if they're winnowing down the number of total players while moving on to semi final contestants, as if they will come down to a handful of key actors. This has been seen many times before as initial chaos gives way to securely established criminal territories, as happened back in 20's and 30's. This might be backed up by figure 30, number of offenders with prior arrests, which trends up, indicating more seasoned, experienced killers. However, part of the drop in offenders might be due to the delay in clearing a case.

    Fascinating stuff.
     
  14. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    I saw a bizarre and disturbing statistic that was uncovered from medieval German death records. Researchers were sifting through the old data looking for child mortality predictors, and the leading indicator that popped out was whether the baby's paternal grandmother lived in the home. After much head scratching, they realized that the father's live-in mothers must've been killing the babies, probably if they suspected that their son wasn't the real father. Grimm's Fairytales had old German ladies pegged. :wtf:
     
  15. Brolan

    Brolan Commodore Commodore

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    Ok, that sent a chill down my spine.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    All that makes me think is "If only guns had been invented then, those medieval German babies could have shot their grandmas first." Won't someone think of using time travel to arm the medieval children? :(
     
  17. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    You'd do anything to shift this discussion away from the US and the actual topic, don't you?
     
  18. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One, the study set the authors derived wasn't from "medieval Germany", it was from 17-18th century Germany and what was then the Kingdom of Hanover. Two, if you actually read the paper, you'd know that mass infanticide was never a conclusion made by the author. Their suggestion was rather that it was due to pressure, stress and conflict between the in-law and the mother, the same effect which latter papers has also observed in several countries including Japan and Canada
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  19. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere

    In geographical terms any places west of the Prime Meridian, up to the International Date line are in the Western Hemisphere.

    Now the wikipedia article does say in political rhoteric it is used to apply to the Americas,

    Lets look at one of the more commonly used definitions of Rhoteric

    1.(in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetoric
     
  20. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps you don't understand how overseas territories work, they are basically self-governing, but allow another nation to act on their behalf at an International level.