How many continuities are there in Trek Literature?

[Vnix]

I assume that the current licensing agreement can, at the very least, be renegotiated? Meaning, the litverse might one day be allowed to mention Bad Robot's works, even if they can't do so now.

Especially since ST4 will apparently be the final Kelvinverse film.

I'm all for jubilation on the end of JJtrek! But, even then we're not out of the woods yet. Generally licensing agreements do not cover newly created material, and as such the new series (and possible prime verse films) may or may not be usable. Moreover it may also cause massive retcons. I only just got into this to already have it retconned...

Oh, yeah; like Vnix said (maybe in a different thread? I've lost track ), all they need is motivation to negotiate a new one.

And it will be? Oh, aw; I hadn't heard that. That's kind of a shame.

Amen.

May I suggest we request a mod to consolodate this convo on rights into a seperate thread?

 

[Vnix]

AFAIK, the actors are only contracted for one more, and I haven't heard any indication of future Kelvin films. If there are any more Trek films after ST4, they will probably be another reboot.

I dislike the JJtrek films but I don't see any possible life for yet another reboot.

 

[Christopher]

As I understand it (at third hand, maybe, so deploy grains of salt), Bad Robot just prefers to keep all its tie-in material closely supervised and coordinated -- like having all the comics written by a single hand-picked person, say. And that doesn't really mesh well with fitting it into a pre-existing, sprawling novel continuity that an established group of authors has been developing independently for the past couple of decades. So it basically boils down to a difference in approaches. BR's better able to do things in its preferred way with a comics license than with a novel license, so that's what they focus on. (Not sure how STO fits into that. Maybe they were okay with it because it was a new continuity and they could get in on the ground floor. Or maybe it's just because Cryptic Studios,like IDW, is based in California, while Pocket's way over in NYC.)

Especially since ST4 will apparently be the final Kelvinverse film.

I don't see any reason to assume that. Heck, until the fourth film was announced, most people assumed the series would end with Beyond, and that was clearly an unwise conclusion to jump to. As long as the series keeps making money, they'll keep making more installments. If the actors' contracts run out, they'll renegotiate.

After all, Paramount only retains the movie license to ST as long as it keeps making ST movies. So they have an incentive to keep the series going. Sure, another reboot isn't out of the question, but it's hardly mandatory. Sony only rebooted Spider-Man the first time because their plans for a fourth Raimi-Maguire-Dunst film fell through, and the second time because their reboot bombed. It wasn't because some absolute, immutable schedule required them to do it. If Bad Robot walked away from Trek and Paramount couldn't convince the actors to sign a new contract, say, then they'd probably do a reboot so they could keep the movie rights. But as long as the cast and producers are willing to keep going, there's no reason the studio wouldn't let them.

 

[Vnix]

There is ofcourse the option of requiring the novel verse to be disallowed from contradicting the comics ánd films in a rather stringent contractual manner. This is ofcourse what would happen anyway, but with the JJtrek stuff being well established with regards to the primeverse and as far as I have been able to find not develop anymore that could be useful.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But as long as the cast and producers are willing to keep going, there's no reason the studio wouldn't let them.

What if Bad Robot remains, but the cast doesn't? As I said, they're only under contract for one more film, and probably all want to move on.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I've said this about three times now, Laser Beam. Lawyers do not decide what can be done. They take what the executives want to do, and figure out how to implement it.

This is not the fault of the lawyers. This is Bad Robot and CBS.

Now, now. Don't let your rationality and logic get in the way of a good anti-lawyer hatred. Haven't you heard that lawyers are the root of all evil? Sure, you might have heard "money", but I ask you... what do lawyers charge their clients? That's right, money! I rest my case, your honour.

 

[Christopher]

What if Bad Robot remains, but the cast doesn't? As I said, they're only under contract for one more film, and probably all want to move on.

How do you know that they want to move on? Indeed, what does "move on" even mean in this context? It's not like the Trek movies are the only work they're doing. Chris Pine has played Jack Ryan and Steve Trevor while also playing Kirk, and has done more than a dozen other movies besides. Karl Urban played Judge Dredd and starred in Almost Human. Zoe Saldana has been Neytiri and Gamora and a bunch of other characters while also being Uhura. Simon Pegg is a regular in the Mission: Impossible series, he did The World's End, and he even appeared in The Force Awakens. And those are just a few samples of their careers. Star Trek has always been just one job out of many. So they don't need to move on. They can go away between movies, do an eclectic range of other stuff, then come back for the next movie, exactly like they've already been doing for the past 7-8 years.

 

[JD]

AFAIK, the actors are only contracted for one more, and I haven't heard any indication of future Kelvin films. If there are any more Trek films after ST4, they will probably be another reboot (or possibly Prime, if DSC is enough of a hit).

As for the current state of affairs: The main problem is what to do about Romulus. As it stands, once the litverse reaches 2387 - as it eventually must - Romulus will become totally off limits. They won't be able to mention the planet at all. This isn't something they can just gloss over...if not for that, Bad Robot's attitude would be far less of a problem.

Could they get away with vague references, like someone talking about how the Romulans aren't really involved in galaxy politics after what happened to them, but just leave it there with no clarification of what it is?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I suppose there could be some ways around the restrictions, yeah. Be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

[The Wormhole]

"No Romulans at this conference?"
"You know it's gauche to talk about the Romulans in public these days."

 

[Jinn]

"Why?"
"The FLs will sue you into the GROUND."
"For what?"
"For mentioning that Romulus was destrooo oh shit!"
*Gets sued by the FLs*

 

[Avro Arrow]

"Why?"
"The FLs will sue you into the GROUND."
"For what?"
"For mentioning that Romulus was destrooo oh shit!"
*Gets sued by the FLs*

"Thank the Great Bird we don't use money! Although sadly they took all my self-betterment..."

 

[Jinn]

"Thank the Great Bird we don't use money! Although sadly they took all my self-betterment..."

Or even worse, they could ban the talking person from publication!

 

[Avro Arrow]

Or even worse, they could ban the talking person from publication!

A fate worse than death!

 

[Jinn]

A fate worse than death!

Though one can return from it. So basically it's the same.

 

[Admiral Rex]

So there was never a book that explicitly said "There was a second 5-year mission right after the one on TV and before TMP." But a number of books were pretty clearly assuming that the in-universe interval between TOS and TMP was close to the real-time interval, and that either there was a second 5-year mission or that the mission just ended up being longer than 5 years anyway.

After all, TOS never actually mentioned a 5-year mission duration anywhere except the opening narration. The only in-story references to a 5-year mission duration are in TMP, "Q2," Into Darkness, and Beyond. And it's a safe bet that if TOS had lasted to a sixth season, they would've just ignored the opening narration and continued the mission without explanation (just as Run for Your Life spent 3 years telling the story of a man with 18 months left to live, and M*A*S*H spent 11 years depicting a war that lasted only 3). So maybe those novelists were doing much the same, just ignoring the duration mentioned in the main titles and letting the mission go on as long as they needed it to. Maybe they were thinking of it as a "second 5-year mission," but none of them ever actually said so in print.

Actually, there is one book that mentions a second five-year mission. That was in Star Trek: The Next Generation - Ships of the Line. Although this mission would be post-TMP and not immediately after the TV show. So extending the original five-year mission with original ranks and uniforms would still not work in this second five-year mission that is post-TMP.

From Ships of the Line - In 2278, Captain Bateson sees the Enterprise after "her second five-year mission under the command of James T. Kirk, the shipmaster who had piloted her to fame."

 

[Christopher]

Actually, there is one book that mentions a second five-year mission. That was in Star Trek: The Next Generation - Ships of the Line. Although this mission would be post-TMP and not immediately after the TV show.

Yes, and The Captain's Daughter also mentions a post-TMP 5-year mission. A number of books do that, and it's widely accepted that it occurred. But that's a different matter altogether from the putative pre-TMP second mission that we're discussing. What I'm saying is that those '80s books that were set multiple years after TOS episodes yet still pre-TMP were clearly assuming that the TOS era lasted significantly more than 5 years, but they never explicitly used the words "second 5-year mission."

 

[Admiral Rex]

Yes, and The Captain's Daughter also mentions a post-TMP 5-year mission. A number of books do that, and it's widely accepted that it occurred. But that's a different matter altogether from the putative pre-TMP second mission that we're discussing. What I'm saying is that those '80s books that were set multiple years after TOS episodes yet still pre-TMP were clearly assuming that the TOS era lasted significantly more than 5 years, but they never explicitly used the words "second 5-year mission."

Right, the '80s books could have assumed that the five-year mission ended while the Enterprise continued onto other missions that we're necessarily "five-year missions" post-TOS and pre-TMP. Thus placing TMP later than 2272-2273.

 

[Christopher]

Right, the '80s books could have assumed that the five-year mission ended while the Enterprise continued onto other missions that we're necessarily "five-year missions" post-TOS and pre-TMP. Thus placing TMP later than 2272-2273.

I don't think they were really putting that much thought into it. It feels more like they weren't thinking about mission lengths at all and just taking it for granted that the in-story interval between TOS and TMP matched the real-world interval. Or else they were approaching the story as something timeless. Mission lengths are minutiae that some fans dwell on, but there are plenty of other people who couldn't care less because they're more interested in story and character. And then detail-obsessed fans like me come along and try to rationalize it by speculating about second 5-year missions and whatnot. But that's something separate from the stories themselves.

 

[Admiral Rex]

I don't think they were really putting that much thought into it. It feels more like they weren't thinking about mission lengths at all and just taking it for granted that the in-story interval between TOS and TMP matched the real-world interval. Or else they were approaching the story as something timeless. Mission lengths are minutiae that some fans dwell on, but there are plenty of other people who couldn't care less because they're more interested in story and character. And then detail-obsessed fans like me come along and try to rationalize it by speculating about second 5-year missions and whatnot. But that's something separate from the stories themselves.

I'm sure some authors may have figured that since the series ended in 1969 and TMP premiered in 1979, they were filling in a ten year gap.