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You're the Editor for 2013...

Defcon: As for the plausbility of squeezing so many adventures into a 5YM, well, that's just the nature of long-running series. How many cases could the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew really investigate before they grew up? How many innocent clients could Perry Mason be expected to defend over the course of his career? How many "perfect" murders took place on Columbo's turf? How did Doc Savage find time to save the world 181 times? (And that was just in the original pulps!)

This is where poetic license kicks in . . . .

Oh, I totally get that.

Just tried to answer your question, and the too many missions in the 5YM is a complaint that seems to come up regularly where TOS novels are concerned in regular reader's discussions.

In the end I have no problems with more 5YM adventures, as long as the story told is entertaining I won't complain.
 
I'm curious. Why the interest in movie-era TOS? To be honest, I considered setting my next TOS novel during the movie era, just for novelty's sake, but, after thinking it over, I didn't see the point. Unless the plot actually involves characters or elements from the movies (Saavik, Genesis, Sulu's daughter, Valeris, whatever), I couldn't see what would be gained by setting a standalone TOS adventure after TMP or TFF instead of back during the good old 5YM.

Depends whether you want to characterise the young and brash Kirk or the older and wiser Kirk. The differences between the characters on their young first FYM and on their much later missions is worth bearing in mind- Kirk of the Khitomer era isn't going to be doing flying drop-kicks every other week...

Also, psychologically for the audience, it would help gloss over the five year mission being filled with about forty years' worth of events, if folks could think "oh, wait, some of them were movie-era". There's just a lot more room in the movie era, in which to fit a bunch more stories. Which wouldn't fool the hardcore fans, who, as rightly mentioned above, don't care how many adventures are squeezed in there, but it would give them an excuse to stop moaning about it.

Plus, the Refit Enterprise is just so much prettier.
 
PPatters: I can see that, but, in that case, I think that would have to be the point of the book, to fill in the blanks, answer some outstanding questions, or tie up loose ends (like with my Khan books).

For me, the goal in telling stories like Ex Machina, The Darkness Drops Again, and Forgotten History is to do just that, to explore the gaps. I've always been most interested in the parts of Trek continuity that haven't been explored, the ones that give me the most creative freedom. I first conceived of Ex Machina (or the idea that eventually became that) years before I became a Trek author, during the era when the novels weren't allowed to have any real continuity or character growth. That kind of story where nothing really changed held little appeal for me. I thought I could make an end run around those restrictions if I focused on a known period of transition between two established endpoints, TMP and TWOK, and explored how the characters got from where they were in the former to where they were in the latter. That way I could have development and change within the limits of canon. (Though these days I suspect that if I had pitched the novel back then, it would've been rejected anyway; it's probably for the best that I didn't get involved with Pocket until the restrictions of the '90s had relaxed.)

I also prefer the TMP era because I think it has a lot of unrealized potential. TMP was a flawed movie from a story standpoint but created a rich visual and conceptual world; the Enterprise and its crew have never looked so fascinating, and it's disappointing that we didn't get more films that conveyed the same rich sense of environment that TMP created.


Defcon: As for the plausbility of squeezing so many adventures into a 5YM, well, that's just the nature of long-running series. How many cases could the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew really investigate before they grew up? How many innocent clients could Perry Mason be expected to defend over the course of his career? How many "perfect" murders took place on Columbo's turf? How did Doc Savage find time to save the world 181 times?

I'll give you the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew -- also the Marvel Universe -- but in the case of Perry Mason, Columbo, and the like, those aren't expected to be crammed into a finite span of time. Sure, it's unrealistic that a criminal attorney would have over two dozen murder trials per year (or rather, preliminary hearings, since Mason almost always cleared his clients before the jury trial even began), but at least it's all assumed to be happening in real time. When Perry Mason and Columbo were revived in the '80s/'90s, they had aged accordingly, and their new adventures weren't all alleged to take place in the same 5-year span as their old ones.

So we're talking about two different kinds of implausibility here. It's implausible that one starship would get into mortal danger an average of once every two weeks, rather than having just the occasional dangerous situation among lots and lots of routine missions and downtime -- but at least it's actually possible to fit the 79 episodes of TOS into the span of three calendar years. It may strain credibility, but at least it doesn't violate physical law. But once you get to the point that the sum of the durations of all the "5-year mission" stories out there exceeds 1825 days, then it becomes outright impossible that they all took place. And that's a lot more disbelief to suspend.

So given that the 5YM era is so crowded already while the post-TMP era is a wide-open, mostly empty space, why not set stories there?
 
-More TNG happening after David Mack's trilogy. I'd like to see either David McIntee or William Leisner, or even both, tackle these characters again.

9. ENT novel (something during the series by McIntee)

Hey, drop a line to S&S and say so...

I have pitched a couple of ENT storylines, as it happens.

Though as for TNG, I'd love to write for Data, but that ain't likely, what with him being vapourised and all... If there were TNG slots set during the series, I'd love that.

Also, I forgot to add in my "what I'd do" - another Anthology, probably DS9 themed. Which would make 13 books, but if it doubled up with the movie novelisation then it'd be 12 books of original fiction, plus the one adaptation.
 
something set in the 23rd century on a different ship. (some of the best stuff, for me, is when Vanguard focuses on the ships doing stuff, besides the station.)

something smaller, even, not necessarily another Connie, although slotting in appearances from the likes of the Defiant, Intrepid, Constellation (pre Doomsday Machine) or Exeter could be cool, but another smaller ship along the lines of the Bombay would be cool.

say, a series on the USS Gloucester...
 
For me, the goal in telling stories like Ex Machina, The Darkness Drops Again, and Forgotten History is to do just that, to explore the gaps. I've always been most interested in the parts of Trek continuity that haven't been explored, the ones that give me the most creative freedom. I first conceived of Ex Machina (or the idea that eventually became that) years before I became a Trek author, during the era when the novels weren't allowed to have any real continuity or character growth. That kind of story where nothing really changed held little appeal for me. I thought I could make an end run around those restrictions if I focused on a known period of transition between two established endpoints, TMP and TWOK, and explored how the characters got from where they were in the former to where they were in the latter. That way I could have development and change within the limits of canon... I also prefer the TMP era because I think it has a lot of unrealized potential. TMP was a flawed movie from a story standpoint but created a rich visual and conceptual world; the Enterprise and its crew have never looked so fascinating, and it's disappointing that we didn't get more films that conveyed the same rich sense of environment that TMP created.

For me, as a fan, I definitely understand this perspective. I agree completely with your assessment -- I thought that TMP had such great potential in what it presented: the struggle Spock had, the return of the crew to working together again, etc... But I can agree with Greg; it seems like you had a solid interest in exploring that for those reasons. Given the internal continuity of the books, allowing those with an intentional interest in exploring that era versus doing it for other reasons (though valid I recognize the reasons you've given are), could make sense :)

In general, I'll enjoy a book regardless when it's set as long as it's well-written and engages me :)
 
Hmm... I'll give it a shot.

1. A DS9 catch-up book to bridge at least most of the the missing time between "The Soul Key" and "Destiny". I am thinking a giant novel similar to VOY's "Full Circle". This will cover the Ascendants arc and bring this story to its proper conclusion. Would love for it to be written by S.D. Perry, who wrote some of the DS9 relaunch's earlier installments. Haven't seen anything from her in the DS9 universe since "Unity".
2. A DS9 collection of novellas like VGD's "Declassified" to further bridge some of the gaps between the above DS9 novel and the current novel timeline. 3-4 stories written by various authors. More character-centric.
3. The next installment of VOY to follow "The Eternal Tide." This will most definitely be written by Kirsten Beyer, who has proven herself worthy to hold the key's to the VOY series.
4-5. A good Typhon Pact duology to follow the events from DRGIII's recent duology and David Mack's upcoming TNG trilogy. Not sure who I'd want to write this one. Maybe DRGIII again? Or where the hell is KRAD? Would love for him to get on board.
6. The next Titan installment, following the events of the upcoming "Fallen Gods." Maybe written by Christopher Bennett or, hey, how about Andy Mangels?
7. An ENT novel to maybe wrap that story up (at least, for now). I haven't followed the novels so I am not sure what, if anything, was left unresolved by the end of the Romulan War books.
8. A send-off for New Frontier. It deserves to be given a proper send-off (I don't read this series, either, but I know I'd be pissed if I was left hanging without a resolution).
9. Insert random TOS novel here. I don't read the TOS books, either, but these fans shouldn't be excluded. Don't care what time frame this is set in (5 year mission, movie era?).
10. Another 24th century-focused book. I am not sure if I want it to be another installment of DTI. Or maybe a stand-alone Aventine book?
11. Novelization of the next Trek movie. You know it's coming so let's just put this down as a given.
12. The first installment in a brand-new Trek series. Something to replace Vanguard as must-read Treklit.
 
So we're talking about two different kinds of implausibility here. It's implausible that one starship would get into mortal danger an average of once every two weeks, rather than having just the occasional dangerous situation among lots and lots of routine missions and downtime -- but at least it's actually possible to fit the 79 episodes of TOS into the span of three calendar years. It may strain credibility, but at least it doesn't violate physical law. But once you get to the point that the sum of the durations of all the "5-year mission" stories out there exceeds 1825 days, then it becomes outright impossible that they all took place. And that's a lot more disbelief to suspend.

So given that the 5YM era is so crowded already while the post-TMP era is a wide-open, mostly empty space, why not set stories there?

My thoughts exactly Christopher!
 
Defcon: As for the plausbility of squeezing so many adventures into a 5YM, well, that's just the nature of long-running series. How many cases could the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew really investigate before they grew up? How many innocent clients could Perry Mason be expected to defend over the course of his career? How many "perfect" murders took place on Columbo's turf? How did Doc Savage find time to save the world 181 times? (And that was just in the original pulps!)

This is where poetic license kicks in . . . .

Oh, I totally get that.

Just tried to answer your question, and the too many missions in the 5YM is a complaint that seems to come up regularly where TOS novels are concerned in regular reader's discussions..

Oh yeah, I've definitely seen such comments before, which is why I thought it might be interesting to delve into the issue a little--especially since, like I said, I was wrestling with the question myself not long ago.

I guess a lot depends on one's willingness to suspend disbelief where the timing issue is concerned. Speaking as someone who used to ghost-write for Tom Swift, giving TOS an infinite number of missions doesn't bother me, but that might just be me!

The way I see, the movie era is fertile ground--if you've got a reason to set the story there, like dealing with Sulu's midlife crisis or the aftermath of Spock's resurrection or whatever. But, personally, I'm not inclined to do it just for novelty's sake.

Besides, TOS just seems brighter and more colorful. Who wants to write about people in beige pajamas? :)
 
^Which would make the TOS and ENT fans unhappy...

If the relative sales numbers of the Enterprise novels in the US are anywhere similar to their German equivalents I doubt we'll see many Enterprise books in the future. Cross Cult, the German publisher recently pulled the already announced Enterprise books and put the series as a whole on hiatus because of very poor sales. Paraphrasing some comments made by them, it seems like the sales where so bad that they had to be cut to not endanger the whole ST line.

If any anyone is interested by the way, they posted a rough ranking of their series by sales numbers and it looked like that:

1. Star Trek - Destiny
2. Star Trek - Titan
3. Star Trek - The Next Generation
4. Star Trek - Vanguard
5. Star Trek - Deep Space Nine
6. Star Trek - The Original Series / Star Trek - New Frontier
7. Star Trek - Starfleet Academy
8. Star Trek - Enterprise
 
Besides, TOS just seems brighter and more colorful. Who wants to write about people in beige pajamas? :)

Whereas I find the TMP-era Enterprise to be more visually striking and appealing than the TOS-era one. The ship and the technology look more advanced, the uniforms have vastly more variety, and the crew is much more diverse.

A lot of people have a false impression about the blandness of TMP because the network-TV and home video versions that were available prior to 2001 were the result of a film-to-video transfer process that washed out the colors. The Director's Edition restores the original color saturation, and I think the TMP Photostory actually increased the saturation, since in there the colors are rather rich. When I think of the Photostory, or the artwork on the original soundtrack album's sleeve, or the Marvel comic from the era, or the famous Bob Peak movie poster on the cover of the album and novelization, my mental impression is one of vivid color. So I've never really thought of the TMP era as bland or colorless. Perhaps that's because for many years, I experienced TMP more through those other sources than through watching the film itself on TV or home video (though I did have a laser-disc edition of the Special Longer Version).
 
I think I'm one of the few people who has next to zero interest in any more stories set during the 5YM. :lol: :ouch:
 
Well, I was mostly going for a cheap laugh regarding the beige pajamas, but that gag does touch on the fact that when I think of Kirk & Co., I see them as they were on TOS, just as Allyn's touchstone is the whole maroon-jacket movie era. We all have our own prefered versions of the crew in our heads, so it's no surprise we tend to gravitate there when writing our books.

If I tried writing a TMP-era book, I would be fighting my mental image of Spock in a blue tunic and black trousers the whole way. It would be an uphill battle to keep visualizing them in those (forgive me) boring costumes from TMP.

Plus, I just finished rewatching all three seasons of TOS, from beginning to end, so that's still fresh in my mind.
 
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I'd publish:

3 Typhon Pact novels, with an anthology of stories set entirely within the different member nations and featuring no currently-extant Federation characters.

Pick up the DS9 storyline, big time.

A novel set entirely within the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant.

A series of Trek gamebooks in the vein of the Lone Wolf series.
 
An ENT novel to maybe wrap that story up (at least, for now). I haven't followed the novels so I am not sure what, if anything, was left unresolved by the end of the Romulan War books.

There really aren't any threads to be tied up vis a vis ENT after To Brave the Storm. If there's more to explore in the 22nd Century, it should be done through a new series.
 
I'm glad Enterprise got a proper finale, and I actually liked the Enterprise Relaunch, but I hope it's over for good. I'd rather it finish at an actual finishing point than continue on unnecessarily.

That being said, I would have rather they taken a slower time to get to the founding of the Federation though. There were way more stories to tell and way more threads from the series to be picked up on.
 
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