Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Kor, Mar 27, 2015.
Kang, with Kor a close second, mainly because Michael Ansara and John Colicos are iconic actors.
Many years ago--one year before he passed away--I had the pleasure of meeting John Colicos at a Toronto Trek convention and getting his autograph. I was pleased to shake his hand and thank him for his work.
He impressed me as a very nice man.
Where was I saying that it's a bad thing No, no I just find it sort of amusing how you and I in a lot of things Trek seem to have the exact (or almost exact) opposite preferences.
It would be awful if everybody had the same opinion!
I went back to watch the dinner scene again. The editing is a bit sloppy. And I never quite understood what was up with the "Shakespear in the original Klingon" comment and the general Shakespear boner the Klingons have in TUC.
One explanation was that the comment was solely to piss of Kirk (even more) tough Kirk never was a Shakespear fanboy like Picard was so this seems odd.
The other is that the writers/director wanted to express his interpretation of Klingons as this highly emotional species. We do get a few comments in 24th century Trek that Klingons are really into epic poetry, so...
I guess they just didn't know how to go over the whole thing subtlety so -> Shakespear! Hamlet!
The funny thing if you ask me, German "Sturm und Drang" poetry (like Friedrich Schiller) might have fitted the Klingons better. A genre that filled with protagonists who are so high-strung that they kill themselves rather than face reality does sound kinda Klingon...
That was all just thinly veiled allegory for Glastnost when Gorkochev wanted to make peace with the Federation after Chernob... er Praxis exploded.
The Shakespeare quote is based on a quip about "Shakespeare in the original German" and I remember reading about that but to look it up brings up silly stuff about a Klingon Hamlet. But it had to do with popularity of Shakespeare in Germany and many German people had read it in that language first.
It's kind of in the same vein as Revenge is a dish best served cold is a Klingon proverb, but it's not, it's Sicilian, and that only Nixon can go to China is a Vulcan proverb.
I preferred Kor in the original series he had an air of nobility and class with a hint of menace no other Klingon has ever had that since
Kor and Kang were the best Klingons. Mara was the most attractive Klingon, by far.
I preferred the TOS look to the Klingon's I always felt that they were a "there but for the grace of god" race but then they had the bumpy foreheads and the stupid gestures and facial expressions turned them from threats into fools
Well of course, I am a fan of that period of history which contributes to my enjoyment of TUC.
Yes he was hugely popular in the 18 centur-early 19 century among the Romantics and the "Sturm und Drang" folks. In Schiller's work you can sometimes see one character saying of another that he has "an English soul" which back then in Germany meant he was very passionate, sensitive and/or very good at words to express those feelings. I don't know if "Sense and Sensibility" was ever translated into German, but 19th century Gerans would have been firmly on Marianne's side.
Incidentally I am actually very against translating works of literature, movies etc into other languages. Especially poems make little sense translated. Something just always gets lost in translation and sometimes the translator just goes wild with it and sort of forces their own ideas and tone onto the work. Not cool.
Though I always thought the Klingon use of it also had a bit of "cultural appropriation" i.e. "Shakespear's words were far to powerful for him to be a milk boned human, he must have been a Klingon!"
But what about THe Klingon woman fleeing from the transporter pad when Kirk beams over the survivors? She looked very nice indeed!
Does anyone think that The Klingons in TUC were more a cross between the original Mongolian types and the Turtle headed braggards rather than a continuation of The Kruge/Gowron lunatics? I found they were more civil and respectable than shouting about blood pies and Sto Vo Kor!
Exactly that's why I like them and find them believable. I stick to it Azetbur is best Klingon. Mara is best TOS Klingon. And K'Ehleyr is best 24th century Klingon.
Of course my fanwank is also that the 24th century Klingons acted so over-the -top because they really tried to compensate for the state of peace their Empire was it with acting extra "warrior-like".
Perhaps even stuff like Kagh (is that the name of the living worms they ate?) was original just something primitive Klingons ate somewhen in their dung ages before it was revived post TUC as a symbol of "unbroken" Klingon culture.
I would like to actually see how the Klingons would look with the post TMp makeup but the TOS style in clothing and hairstyles. I wonder if there's fan-art for it.
The closest thing we have to that is probably First Season Worf with his neatly kept, short hair and the TOS gold sash.
^ Years ago, I did that with a screenshot of Kor from "Errand of Mercy," blending in his forehead ridges from one of the DS9 episodes he was in. I thought it looked pretty cool. I'm not sure if I still have it; I'll try to look for it soon.
What did you guys think of Kor, Kang, and Koloth's appearance on DS9 in "Blood Oath"?
(I asked the question in the DS9 thread, but the thread flopped.)
I didn't care for that. I would have preferred if they had taken the TUC option and shown that Kor, Kand and Koloth had much more subdued features and looked more like they had in TOS. It was one of those things that just turned me off.
Their look didn't bother me at all, even though it was clearly different.
My problem was with the writing overall.
These are my thoughts:
I just finished watching Blood Oath a few days back and I was kinda disappointed with it.
Part of me is elated to see the 3 Amigos again, but the plot involving the Albino lacked a certain oomph.
Maybe it was too talky, and after a while the talk felt redundant.
I like Dax overall, she's likeable enough. But after watching this episode, I'm beginning to think she's the least interesting character (certainly the only unconvincing character) on the show. I think it's the acting. Julian is a bit immature and a pain in the ass at times, but I can look at the character and say, "Eh, that's just Julian." With Dax, there's something about Terry Farrell's performance that just doesn't ring true for me. I like her well enough, but I do find her unconvincing in many situations, especially when she begins to tell "war stores" about her past and talks like she's so experienced about life.
Getting back to Blood Oath, somehow, Jadzia just didn't belong fighting alongside Kor, Kang and Koloth. Terry Farrell just didn't have the physicality to convince me she could kick ass alongside Klingon warriors. I think the episode would've played better with Kira, though you would've had to come up with a reason for Kira to have history with those guys.
Still, it was a pleasure to see Colicos, Campbell and Ansara again. I just wish it would've been a better episode. How badass would it be to have an epic Klingon episode like Sins of the Father or Redemption with Gowron, Worf, Kurn and those three? Or even John Schuck's Klingon Ambassador?
I agree with the sentiment that "Blood Oath" was less than impressive. And I've never really cared for the Dax character either so her presence didn't help.
I did that with several TOS Klingons, Kang with ridges is my usual avatar.
The last one with Kor was a different approach, de-aging the DS9 Kor.
Nice work overall.
Kras looks a little less like Bob the Discount Klingon in that photo. Michael Pataki looks a little strange.
Pataki and Campbell never turned out as well as I would have like.
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