Your favorite TNG plot holes
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
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About 'I Borg', some say it's a plothole that Hugh returned to the collective and his individuality spread to the collective because they assimilate individuals anyway. Perhaps.... the Borg knows when it's assimilating an individual and are prepared for it. Hugh was just a drone alone on a moon, no need for any "individuality blocker", just plug him back in. But, for the first time there was a drone that had become individual after assimilation, no way to prepare for that.
Why assume it was the first time only because it was the first time we saw it happen? The Borg might have encountered it dozens of times in all corners of the Galaxy. For example, the incident in survival instinct (Voyager) would probably have happened in the same year as I, Borg.
One might think that it was the first time it happened because the Borg existed in the first place.
Picard had been a Borg and knew how Hugh going back would affect the collective.
But this is where headcanon steps in, 'Descent' episodes weren't that great....
So, in my head the Borg was no more after 'I Borg'. But that's just me.
Now this discussion can continue without me saying anything. =) On with the show.
Here's one from me...
In "When the Bough Breaks", Picard knows that the Enterprise has the ability to restore the Aldeans' lives and fertility. So he risks Data and Riker's lives by beaming them through the shield, instead of just telling Radue: "Return our seven, and we'll help you pop out hundreds, maybe thousands of your own."
In "When the Bough Breaks", Picard knows that the Enterprise has the ability to restore the Aldeans' lives and fertility. So he risks Data and Riker's lives by beaming them through the shield, instead of just telling Radue: "Return our seven, and we'll help you pop out hundreds, maybe thousands of your own."
The Aldeans were stubborn, uncooperative, and had no compunction against using their superior technology to take and keep what they wanted, so it made sense for Picard to get into a much stronger negotiating position first before continuing.
Diplomatically, he was in a position of absolute strength. The Aldeans lose seven kids who aren't cooperating anyway, thanks to Wesley's leadership. They get restored health and an unlimited supply of their own brats. That's like trading in a breakdown-prone Ford Edsel for a fleet of Honda Accords.
It's one of several reasons why that episode would have been far better if the Aldeans' infertility had been irreversible.
It's one of several reasons why that episode would have been far better if the Aldeans' infertility had been irreversible.
Has anyone mentioned the use of transporters to cure all illness and reset age to the point of any given cell sample?
Which redefines humanity and is then... forgotten.
(Again, since they did it first in "The Lorelai Signal")
Which redefines humanity and is then... forgotten.
(Again, since they did it first in "The Lorelai Signal")
Plus, I think it was pretty obvious Riker wanted to captain the Enterprise.
Generations made it clear when Riker said he’d always thought he’d get a shot at that chair someday.
Even so, doggedly staying on the Enterprise as First Officer (choice A), rather than moving on to a captaincy on some other smaller and then successively larger vessels (choice B) might not be smartest career path if you'd ultimately wanted to secure that captain's chair on the Enterprise. At least if I were an admiral and I had to appoint a new flagship captain (other than an emergency battlefield promotion), I'd rather go for someone that followed choice B than choice A. At least that person would have considerable experience in captaining by that time.
Maybe. Or maybe you’d choose someone who you knew had the chops, and who knew the ship and crew better than anyone promoted from outside. I guess it depends on the type of person you are, whether you promote from within or whether you prefer to bring in total strangers.
I will say that in-universe continuity hasn’t been kind to outsiders serving aboard unfamiliar starships. They almost always come up short compared to the regular crew.
Those are all things Riker could supply in his continued role as XO under that new captain. He would be expected to put all that knowledge about the crew and inner workings of the Enterprise at the service of his new captain, and hence ensure a smooth transition.
On the other hand, if I promoted Riker to captain of the enterprise, I would have someone with no CO experience commanding the flagship. That's a risk I wouldn't be willing to take in the overwhelming majority of cases.
As far as I know, in the 'real world' you don't get to jump from XO to CO on a huge navy vessel if you don't have any prior CO experience. As I've come to understand, you've got to work your way up from CO posts on smaller vessels - and I would assume there are good reasons for that. But if I'm mistaken and this is actually possible, I'd like to hear about it.
True, but that's of course because it's scripted that way. Either to make Our Heroes look good, or because of the story they want to tell.
You’re using real world logic to make your argument about what someone in the show ought to do, and dismissing the show logic. That’s likely where our differences begin. I’m not using the current real world as a precedent for how characters in a future fictional world ought to behave.
To me, I think it’s obvious Riker liked serving aboard the Enterprise, and preferred being a commanding officer on the Enterprise to being a captain anywhere else. I think the most logical inference is that Riker’s dream position was to one day succeed Picard as captain of the Enterprise.
I also don’t see that as incongruous with Riker’s personality early on in the show, but rather a natural outgrowth of the character.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I’m perfectly okay with that. It’s fun just to geek out on stuff like this sometimes.
Yes, but then the episode wouldn't have been an allegory
for greenhouse gases, hole in the ozone, ruining the environment, etc, etc, etc
Yes, but then the episode wouldn't have been an allegory
Sure it would. And indeed, it would have more gravitas, more impact, if the Aldeans were actually doomed by their irresponsibility. Would "The Outcast" have been as memorable without its horrific "Winston loved Big Brother" ending?
Imagine the episode like this, instead of the smarmy "win-win" dreck we got...
WESLEY: "Okay, kids. Let's go home."
PICARD: "Beam them up."
(The children are beamed up)
RADUE: "You have destroyed us."
PICARD: "No, Radue. You destroyed yourselves."
RADUE: "Get out."
PICARD: "Enterprise, beam the away team up."
(The away team beams up)
PICARD (v.o.): "Captain's log. The Aldeans have restored their shield to full power, and have corrected the weakness that allowed the away team to beam through. All attempts to hail them have been ignored. It is clear that they will have nothing more to do with us, and whatever knowledge they intended to share with us will die with them."
I got goosebumps.
Does he have no experience though? There’s plenty of times Picard is off the ship and he takes the centre seat. Plus literally sitting by Picard’s right hand most of the time learning.
True, he will have limited experience. That is, when a complicated situation comes up or one that might require a 'bigger' decision, he can always call Picard from his ready room, or even his sleep.
Also, it's not as if Picard is never away from his ship, to a conference for example (like in Timescape). Riker has command over the Enterprise in that instance and seemingly has considerable freedom of action (e.g. deciding to help the Romulans). Still I wonder how much room he really has, compared to Picard, before he has to consult with either Picard or Starfleet.
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