Hi, all. I have a matter stuck in my head concerning the personality differences between our two most popular captains, and was hoping that some of you well-versed fellow Trekkies might be able to help put my mind at ease by hopefully confirming what I've got rattling around up there... So I know that we can look back to classic TNG episodes like "Tapestry" to find that the wise, measured, well-mannered Picard was not always so. But I also seem to recall talk of Kirk being the exact opposite - i.e. well-behaved and studious as a young Starfleet cadet, and not so rebellious and daring until his years as Captain later on. Yet with so many different shows, episodes, and movies, I can't seem to recall from where I acquired that notion, and the new reboot series of movies seems to portray him as more brash and reckless pretty much right from the get-go (even as a child, as seen at the start of the 2009 film). Trying to Google about such a concept with such vague search terms proved fruitless, which is why I opted to post here, amongst the experts. So, am I just imagining this version of Kirk in my own mind?? Or was there actual reference to such personality traits in young James T.? Somewhere in Generations or one of the previous original crew movies, perhaps? Any assistance in straightening out these unsure ideas is greatly appreciated!
There are a few episodes that give us an insight into a young Kirk. This is from memory, so I beg your pardon if I get a few facts wrong, but I believe in Where No Man Has Gone Before, Gary Mitchell reminisces with Kirk about his Academy days and says he was "A walking stack of books", and mentions classes that Kirk taught there, saying it was "Think or sink in Lieutenant Kirk's class". In Court Martial, Ben Finney holds a grudge against Kirk for reporting him for some infraction when the two previously served together as Lieutenants, blaming him for holding back his career even though the two were friends. And in Shore Leave Kirk encounters a recreation of Finnegan, who bullied him at the Academy for being quite grim and serious.
Also, when recalling his academy days in "Shore Leave," Kirk described himself as having been "positively grim."
Thanks for the responses, guys. I admit, I'm not as familiar with TOS as I am with the rest of the Trek-verse. I could swear that I acquired the ideas that I have about Kirk from either the movies or TNG. Is there any recallable material in those that would lend to my understanding of the character?...
Which films? In TWOK there is Carol Marcus' comment that Jim Kirk was many things but he was never a boy scout, or something to that effect. Not as sure about TNG, other than Generations. Possibly Spock talking about Kirk in "Unification" and the reference to "cowboy diplomacy."
Saw that title and immediately thought of the movie This Means War, in which Chris Pine and Tom Hardy are playing two guys competing with each other to score with Reese Witherspoon. Sorry, only partially related to the topic. But I felt it had to be shared.
Perhaps it was the influence of Kirk's father that made him grim and estudious. If Kirk grows up with his father alive, he grows up with firm military discipline and wants to please his father and live up to his standards, by working hard and being a model Starfleet officer. If Kirk grows up with his father dead, he grows up without the firm military discipline and with the image of a spectre to live up to, which gives him an underlying anger and rebelliousness and the need to distinguish himself from his father through grand reckless gestures.
Well, I watched through the parts of Generations featuring Kirk, but didn't find quite what I was looking for (though there was a line from Kirk to Picard that went something like: "I was once like you, so focused on duty and obligation I couldn't see past my own uniform."). Like I said, I'm not that familiar with TOS, so I don't believe the perspective that I have of Kirk came directly from those episodes. I'll concede that it's possible I've merely read these kinds of things before... but I could swear I gained these insights from dialogue either in the original crew movies or somewhere in TNG. Specifically a direct comparison of how Kirk's and Picard's character arcs were polar opposite -- i.e. how Kirk started out as a by-the-books, straight-arrow, disciplined cadet who only turned more bold and flexible with the rules later on, whereas Picard was more cocky and reckless in his days at the Academy and matured as an adult into the wise and reserved captain that we're all familiar with. So if not from TOS content, I'm not sure where I caught on to these personality aspects of Kirk from... Had to have been from somewhere though, since I seem to be on the relatively right track.
Kirk the casual rule breaker is a creation of the movies. With the exception of Amok Time, TOS Kirk was a serious professional officer and hardly "rebellious." He would take risks as required in the course of his duties.
Carol Marcus is referring to his attitude about women; he took academics more seriously than his relationships. A dichotomy, to be sure, but it is possible. Yes, AR Kirk suffers from no father figure and is less serious than his prime counterpart. But he's getting there, due to Pike and Bones and the stresses of command.
Keep in mind that the Kirk of the Prime Universe was the survivor of a space holocaust. That might have... tempered him a bit, vs his JJverse doopelganger who was acting out because he never knew his dad.