Young Han Solo film drops directors Phil Lord and Chris Miller

[starsuperion]

In a major upheaval in the midst of production, next year’s Star Wars movie focusing on a young Han Solo has broken ties with directors Phil Lord and Chris Miller.

No new filmmaker has been announced, but in a statement Lucasfilm says the movie will remain on course for a May 2018 release.

“Phil Lord and Christopher Miller are talented filmmakers who have assembled an incredible cast and crew, but it’s become clear that we had different creative visions on this film, and we’ve decided to part ways. A new director will be announced soon,” said Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy.

Lord and Miller, whose previous projects include The LEGO Movie, Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, and the 21 Jump Street comedies, also issued a comment within the Lucasfilm announcement.

“Unfortunately, our vision and process weren’t aligned with our partners on this project. We normally aren’t fans of the phrase ‘creative differences’ but for once this cliché is true. We are really proud of the amazing and world-class work of our cast and crew,” stated Phil Lord and Christopher Miller.

A previously announced Star Wars stand-alone film, which sources tell EW was a Boba Fett movie, also dropped its director, Fantastic Four and Chronicle filmmaker Josh Trank — although that was long before even serious pre-production began. And Rogue One brought aboard frequent Bourne screenwriter and Michael Clayton filmmaker Tony Gilroy to assist on reshoots for that film, although original director, Gareth Edwards (Godzilla), stayed on the project until the end.

There had been no major rumblings of difficulty on the set of the young Han Solo movie, which stars Alden Ehrenreich as a 20-something version of Harrison Ford’s infamous smuggler, Donald Glover as in the role of his duplicitous frenemy Lando Calrissian, originated in The Empire Strikes Back by Billy Dee Williams, and Joonas Suotamo taking over Chewbacca from Peter Mayhew.

The movie co-stars Thandie Newton and Emilia Clarke in unspecified roles, Woody Harrelson plays a mentor figure, and Fleabag star Phoebe Waller-Bridge will play a performance-capture character.

Whoever takes over the movie will inherit a project that has already undergone most, if not all, of its principal photography, and its not clear yet how much of the movie, written by Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan and his son Jon Kasdan (The First Time), will be reshot — if any.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...and-chris-miller/ar-BBCXVE3?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

[Kor]

This will be the Superman II of the Star Wars franchise.

Kor

 

[starsuperion]

This will be the Superman II of the Star Wars franchise.

Kor

As a kid I liked Superman II. But I am wondering how well this movie will be received given the title character was already knocked off by his own whinny emo dork son...

I think the fact that Han is dead, and not in many fans minds still alive and running around the galaxy far far away, makes it a moot point watching his origin. Disney could have done that origin first, but since JJ and Kathleen Kennedy needed a sacrifice for TFA so as to completely rip off New Hope, it seems like Han's movie will suffer from the new continuity, even if the stand alone movie is good.

However, Kathleen Kennedy's "creative differences" scare me. I wonder if she felt that the directors didn't do more to emphasize Han's White privilege, and since a Female wasn't in the lead, maybe the project is too much testosterone for her. Who knows.. It makes me sick with all that crap.

I mean why does every Movie have to be some political statement? Every scifi series has to be a commentary on Life's problems. I think there are so many doing that, why not take the road less traveled and only deal with in universe issues, some which would be completely alien to human ideology and political propaganda. I like the idea of a scifi series just being what it was meant to be and not some veiled commentary on political agendas.

Why can't we just get a movie designed to be in it's own reality, it's own story, and not an allegory for modern problems. In the galaxy far far away, one would assume there are other ideas and concepts of life that we wouldn't even consider because it's alien to our way of thinking, much in the way the Ancient Hieroglyphs and concepts that Egyptians once related via their murals and statues. Very alien thinking, and yet complex and very advanced in math and in philosophy.

I am just not happy on the whole with the new Star Wars universe. It seems extremely off to me. Like some kind of fan flick, rather then an actual understanding of Star Wars and what the true deep story and meaning of that universe was supposed to be.

 

[Tenacity]

Ron Howard is in (according to The Hollywood Reporter), love his work and style.

The article said Howard was on the short list to of directed TPM, if only, if only.

 

[Ithekro]

I seem to recall that Lucas still had some outstanding issues with the Screen Director's Guild at that time. Presumable because of how Star Wars films start with an opening crawl in the old fashion way and with no credits at the start other than the at the time 20th century Fox and Lucasfilm Limited production company logos.

 

[Venardhi]

However, Kathleen Kennedy's "creative differences" scare me. I wonder if she felt that the directors didn't do more to emphasize Han's White privilege, and since a Female wasn't in the lead, maybe the project is too much testosterone for her. Who knows.. It makes me sick with all that crap.

I mean why does every Movie have to be some political statement? Every scifi series has to be a commentary on Life's problems. I think there are so many doing that, why not take the road less traveled and only deal with in universe issues, some which would be completely alien to human ideology and political propaganda. I like the idea of a scifi series just being what it was meant to be and not some veiled commentary on political agendas.

Good storytelling is about people and conflict, and it will always be about the storyteller and their audience. Doesn't matter what kind of aliens or monsters are in it or what star system or dimension they're in; the story is still about people, or it isn't a story worth telling.

Having women and people who aren't blindingly white in the lead roles isn't an in-your-face political statement to anyone but terrified white people.

 

[JD]

As a kid I liked Superman II. But I am wondering how well this movie will be received given the title character was already knocked off by his own whinny emo dork son...

I think the fact that Han is dead, and not in many fans minds still alive and running around the galaxy far far away, makes it a moot point watching his origin. Disney could have done that origin first, but since JJ and Kathleen Kennedy needed a sacrifice for TFA so as to completely rip off New Hope, it seems like Han's movie will suffer from the new continuity, even if the stand alone movie is good.

I don't see why Han being dead would effect people's interest in the movie, we've gotten tons of biopics about real people who died and it didn't effect people's interest. Not to mention that we already saw Anakin and Obi-Wan die in the OT and it didn't seem to effect the PT's audience.

However, Kathleen Kennedy's "creative differences" scare me. I wonder if she felt that the directors didn't do more to emphasize Han's White privilege, and since a Female wasn't in the lead, maybe the project is too much testosterone for her. Who knows.. It makes me sick with all that crap.

I mean why does every Movie have to be some political statement? Every scifi series has to be a commentary on Life's problems. I think there are so many doing that, why not take the road less traveled and only deal with in universe issues, some which would be completely alien to human ideology and political propaganda. I like the idea of a scifi series just being what it was meant to be and not some veiled commentary on political agendas.

Why can't we just get a movie designed to be in it's own reality, it's own story, and not an allegory for modern problems. In the galaxy far far away, one would assume there are other ideas and concepts of life that we wouldn't even consider because it's alien to our way of thinking, much in the way the Ancient Hieroglyphs and concepts that Egyptians once related via their murals and statues. Very alien thinking, and yet complex and very advanced in math and in philosophy.

I am just not happy on the whole with the new Star Wars universe. It seems extremely off to me. Like some kind of fan flick, rather then an actual understanding of Star Wars and what the true deep story and meaning of that universe was supposed to be.

I have never seen anything to indicate any of this. First off, the issues seem to stem from the director's improvisational, comedic style which didn't fit in with what Kennedy and Lawrence Kasdan wanted. I really can't see Kennedy having issues with the lead being a man, since the vast majority of the 92 producer credits she has on IMDB, which go all the way back to the early '90s are focused on men. I've never seen any kind of political statements you're talking about in any of the Star Wars movies so far, and I really don't see that changing with this one. And none of Kennedy's pre-Star Wars credits are that political either, they're pretty much just things like E.T., the Indiana Jones movies, and the Jurrasic Park movies.

 

[Smellmet]

As a kid I liked Superman II. But I am wondering how well this movie will be received given the title character was already knocked off by his own whinny emo dork son...

I think the fact that Han is dead, and not in many fans minds still alive and running around the galaxy far far away, makes it a moot point watching his origin.

I don't think this hurt the prequels in any way, despite the faults they have.

However, Kathleen Kennedy's "creative differences" scare me. I wonder if she felt that the directors didn't do more to emphasize Han's White privilege, and since a Female wasn't in the lead, maybe the project is too much testosterone for her. Who knows.. It makes me sick with all that crap.

I mean why does every Movie have to be some political statement? Every scifi series has to be a commentary on Life's problems. I think there are so many doing that, why not take the road less traveled and only deal with in universe issues, some which would be completely alien to human ideology and political propaganda. I like the idea of a scifi series just being what it was meant to be and not some veiled commentary on political agendas.

Pure speculation with no basis in fact. How on earth do you know that that the Han Solo movie contains this kind of nonsense? 'White privilege' WTF?

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, most versions of Han's background having him coming up from poverty. If anything this a rags to...slightly more expensive rags story.

Just to give an idea where this might go, Lucas's early background notes he whipped up for licencees had him being orphaned in some space battle as an infant, found or won in a bet by "space gypsies" who essentially keep him as a slave, using him as a pickpocket & begger until they eventually abandon him with the Wookiees when he was about seven.

They raised him on Kashyyyk until he was about twelve, when he was sent to an academy (I'm guessing he was taken in by the state when the Wookiees were enslaved) which is where he learned piloting, but was kicked out after three years for crashing a ship while trying to race an instructor...and for selling stolen exam answers to his classmates.

After wandering the galaxy for a while he eventually met up with Chewbacca and (this is where it gets weird) the pair of them spent three years on Coonee hearding coldppeda (23-40ft tall, 15 footed giraffe-lizards with aphrodisiac meat.) Eventually he fell into smuggling by the time he was 20, mostly because Imperial tariffs and trade guild monopolies created a huge black market demand, everything from spice to food to engine parts.

This seems to be where the Han we know comes into focus; the fast talking, deal making, big stakes gambler outwitting Imperial patrols and gangsters alike, always betting big and almost always loosing his big scores as soon just as soon as he's flush. Rolling in credits one day, up to his ears in dept and running from bounty hunters the next. Always on the brink of disaster, which is where he likes it. Given he's about 30-ish by the time of ANH, he's been living this way for a good 10 years by the time we first met him.

Now just to be clear, I'd be very surprised if they end up using even half of this (and apparently even Lucas revised it a few times over the years) but it shows the character was always meant to have come from nothing. Indeed, after reading this you can see why he quickly takes a shine to Rey; they might have much more in common than one might have suspected!

 

[starsuperion]

Good storytelling is about people and conflict, and it will always be about the storyteller and their audience. Doesn't matter what kind of aliens or monsters are in it or what star system or dimension they're in; the story is still about people, or it isn't a story worth telling.

I totally agree with that. However TFA and Rogue one, their stories have many plot holes, retcon the entirety of the Universe of the original series, and I wouldn't be the only one who dislikes the movies story. Well, I can't exactly say that about TFA as it is a DIRECT RIP OFF OF A NEW HOPE.

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Having women and people who aren't blindingly white in the lead roles isn't an in-your-face political statement to anyone but terrified white people.

Ya know.. The Notion that a White Male could dislike casting in a movie without being a racist, misogynist, bigot seems to be lost these days in polite and sincere discussions. "terrified white people?" really? OMG!
I just can't even believe that statement is considered non-racist. I mean, I agree, having non-white male leads is something that some RACIST people would be unnerved about. Honestly, my commentary is legit on the acting and the choices of the actors. Daisy Ridley is a crappy performer. I would have preferred someone else in that role. John Boyega was awesome in Attack the Block, but would have been better I think if he was written as a Jedi, then a storm trooper sanitation worker gone rogue. the plot sucks..see one of countless videos on youtube which give criticism the same on that point, and in many cases are posted by NON-WHITE Terrified People, since that seems to be important to some people...

As a Hetero White male myself (TABOO!!), I love series like Red Dwarf, Dark Matter, and Star Trek. I am also a HUGE DOCTOR WHO FAN! My daughter is a Huge Wonder Woman fan, the ultimate feminist (but naturally written as so being an Amazon warrior) so there is a way to convey it, instead of in your face politically motivated casting. ( I am referring to JJ abrams commentary on seeing so many Effing white people at comicon) Without litigating the whole of TFA and RO, which would take too much time, the movies themselves do suck.

But if I am crazy you only have to look at the tweets by the writers in Rogue One with their safety pin Rebel symbol, and spouting that all white male racist empire being opposed by strong white women with minorities as back up, if that wasn't politically biased and racist against white males, then you can't see the other side of the argument.

I think that was a mistake to go that route. The Empire was never according to the original continuity, a white supremacist organization. It was supposed to be human centric, and only alien oppressive. "humans only" was the official policy of the original Empire. Don't believe me? check it here in the Wookapedia article.
"The Empire justified its actions through Human superiority—it was our duty to preserve order to prevent the exploitation of lesser species. Any action in the pursuit of that goal was justified."
―Soontir Fel[src]

Human High Culture was the Galactic Empire's codified policy of Humanocentric speciesism. It centered around the belief (long, if privately, held by a minority of Humans in the Human-dominated Core) that Humans were inherently superior to other species.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Human_High_Culture

But let's go back to Rogue One. (Kathleen Kennedy's love child in addition to TFA)
There are numerous websites and articles where coming out of Hollywood and Disney, there have been political agendas being admitted to.
http://www.thewrap.com/star-wars-against-hate-rogue-one-writers-get-political/

STAR WARS AGAINST HATE? really?? did they have to go there? I mean, that makes my argument for me. They made the movies political, and it's not because I am a "terrified white person".


“Star Wars against hate. Spread it,” Weitz tweeted along with the revised logo
Adopted from the British post-Brexit, the safety pin has been used to acknowledge a safe space for those facing racial and sexual harassment after Donald Trump’s election.

Really?? How insane is that crap? this is Star Wars, not political commentary.. It should be an escape from all that crud, instead of a central mantra of a SCIFI flick set in a Galaxy far far away..

“Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization,” Weitz wrote in a now-deleted tweet.

“Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women,” Whitta responded.

George Lucas’ “Star Wars” franchise has long been lauded for its inclusiveness, including featuring both men and women in the Rebel Alliance.
Here I took that from the NY daily news, hardly a white supremacist organization..
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...l-logo-donald-trump-protest-article-1.2869894

It's not a coincidence that the Left is calling themselves the RESIST movement.. and here in TFA we have the "resistance". TOO funny..

I wonder how people would have felt if the Remnant (oh I mean the FIRST Order) had been an all Asian cast? I mean in the Empire there were NON-Caucasian sections of the Galaxy in the original universe, where yes white people were in the original (but regional to that sector) and others where there are whole populations of other human races in flurishment and part of the empire. It was a political move to go Minority VS white supremacist as if only white people can be racists.. really? have they not been to China, Korea, or even Japan? Tribal genocide in Africa? come on..

I think my criticism is well founded given how much RACIAL POLITICS has been fed into the Movies. It sucks for a Star Wars fan who wanted more emphasis on ORIGINAL Stories (looking at you JJ) and a Non-Political statement and commentary. It would have been nice to see Luke's kids in play, Mara Jade. Mandalorian invaders and a fractured Galactic republic in civil war with the HUTTS, and other factions like Coreleans.. and so on.. but that would mean, they didn't get to bash all white people as imperial Space NAZIS which I think Hollywood and Disney jumped at as an opportunity to go that route. Given what both Weitz and Ritta and indeed comments made by Kennedy herself, I am inclined to believe that was the agenda all along.

Sad.. I really wanted a good Non-political movie set in universe with in universe problems..

Not the big bad White Racist, misogynist, Bigot boogey man hiding under every minority bed.

 

[starsuperion]

I don't see why Han being dead would effect people's interest in the movie, we've gotten tons of biopics about real people who died and it didn't effect people's interest. Not to mention that we already saw Anakin and Obi-Wan die in the OT and it didn't seem to effect the PT's audience.

I have never seen anything to indicate any of this. First off, the issues seem to stem from the director's improvisational, comedic style which didn't fit in with what Kennedy and Lawrence Kasdan wanted. I really can't see Kennedy having issues with the lead being a man, since the vast majority of the 92 producer credits she has on IMDB, which go all the way back to the early '90s are focused on men. I've never seen any kind of political statements you're talking about in any of the Star Wars movies so far, and I really don't see that changing with this one. And none of Kennedy's pre-Star Wars credits are that political either, they're pretty much just things like E.T., the Indiana Jones movies, and the Jurrasic Park movies.

See my response above JD.. it is coherent and concise. I can find evidence of Kennedy's political flurries, but Its a moot point..

I think there Is "a New Hope" with Ron Howard coming on to direct. Maybe there is a way the movie won't come across as a poltical agenda propaganda commentary piece.. However, I am more skeptical now then ever because of the previous outings in the universe far far away from all that crap, which is what I wanted to do.. escape all the crud in the media.. not get a diatribe allegory "force-fed" to me.

 

[JD]

Ya know.. The Notion that a White Male could dislike casting in a movie without being a racist, misogynist, bigot seems to be lost these days in polite and sincere discussions. "terrified white people?" really? OMG!
I just can't even believe that statement is considered non-racist. I mean, I agree, having non-white male leads is something that some RACIST people would be unnerved about. Honestly, my commentary is legit on the acting and the choices of the actors. Daisy Ridley is a crappy performer. I would have preferred someone else in that role. John Boyega was awesome in Attack the Block, but would have been better I think if he was written as a Jedi, then a storm trooper sanitation worker gone rogue. the plot sucks..see one of countless videos on youtube which give criticism the same on that point, and in many cases are posted by NON-WHITE Terrified People, since that seems to be important to some people...

I'm going to have to disagree on the plot and casting.

As a Hetero White male myself (TABOO!!), I love series like Red Dwarf, Dark Matter, and Star Trek. I am also a HUGE DOCTOR WHO FAN! My daughter is a Huge Wonder Woman fan, the ultimate feminist (but naturally written as so being an Amazon warrior) so there is a way to convey it, instead of in your face politically motivated casting. ( I am referring to JJ abrams commentary on seeing so many Effing white people at comicon) Without litigating the whole of TFA and RO, which would take too much time, the movies themselves do suck.

But if I am crazy you only have to look at the tweets by the writers in Rogue One with their safety pin Rebel symbol, and spouting that all white male racist empire being opposed by strong white women with minorities as back up, if that wasn't politically biased and racist against white males, then you can't see the other side of the argument.

It's not racist against white males, it's just an attempt to increase the diversity of the franchise, and it's based around the fact we only ever saw white men in Empire in the OT. Overall there is a pretty major lack of women and people of color in the OT, so I don't see where trying to make a point of adding more diversity is a problem.

I think that was a mistake to go that route. The Empire was never according to the original continuity, a white supremacist organization. It was supposed to be human centric, and only alien oppressive. "humans only" was the official policy of the original Empire. Don't believe me? check it here in the Wookapedia article.
"The Empire justified its actions through Human superiority—it was our duty to preserve order to prevent the exploitation of lesser species. Any action in the pursuit of that goal was justified."
―Soontir Fel[src]

Human High Culture was the Galactic Empire's codified policy of Humanocentric speciesism. It centered around the belief (long, if privately, held by a minority of Humans in the Human-dominated Core) that Humans were inherently superior to other species.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Human_High_Culture

It looks like this all came from the EU, which no longer counts.
But let's go back to Rogue One. (Kathleen Kennedy's love child in addition to TFA)

There are numerous websites and articles where coming out of Hollywood and Disney, there have been political agendas being admitted to.
http://www.thewrap.com/star-wars-against-hate-rogue-one-writers-get-political/

STAR WARS AGAINST HATE? really?? did they have to go there? I mean, that makes my argument for me. They made the movies political, and it's not because I am a "terrified white person".


“Star Wars against hate. Spread it,” Weitz tweeted along with the revised logo
Adopted from the British post-Brexit, the safety pin has been used to acknowledge a safe space for those facing racial and sexual harassment after Donald Trump’s election.

Really?? How insane is that crap? this is Star Wars, not political commentary.. It should be an escape from all that crud, instead of a central mantra of a SCIFI flick set in a Galaxy far far away..

“Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization,” Weitz wrote in a now-deleted tweet.

“Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women,” Whitta responded.

I support this, people have been using pop culture to raise awareness and promote stuff like this. In the current era this kind of stuff is more important that ever.

George Lucas’ “Star Wars” franchise has long been lauded for its inclusiveness, including featuring both men and women in the Rebel Alliance.
Here I took that from the NY daily news, hardly a white supremacist organization..
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...l-logo-donald-trump-protest-article-1.2869894

If my memory is correct in the entire OT, there are only five women with actual spoken dialogue, Beru, Leia, Mothma, an officer on Endor, and Jabba's slave.

It's not a coincidence that the Left is calling themselves the RESIST movement.. and here in TFA we have the "resistance". TOO funny..

I wonder how people would have felt if the Remnant (oh I mean the FIRST Order) had been an all Asian cast? I mean in the Empire there were NON-Caucasian sections of the Galaxy in the original universe, where yes white people were in the original (but regional to that sector) and others where there are whole populations of other human races in flurishment and part of the empire. It was a political move to go Minority VS white supremacist as if only white people can be racists.. really? have they not been to China, Korea, or even Japan? Tribal genocide in Africa? come on..

I don't remember anybody ever saying only white people can be racist.

I think my criticism is well founded given how much RACIAL POLITICS has been fed into the Movies. It sucks for a Star Wars fan who wanted more emphasis on ORIGINAL Stories (looking at you JJ) and a Non-Political statement and commentary. It would have been nice to see Luke's kids in play, Mara Jade. Mandalorian invaders and a fractured Galactic republic in civil war with the HUTTS, and other factions like Coreleans.. and so on.. but that would mean, they didn't get to bash all white people as imperial Space NAZIS which I think Hollywood and Disney jumped at as an opportunity to go that route. Given what both Weitz and Ritta and indeed comments made by Kennedy herself, I am inclined to believe that was the agenda all along.

Sad.. I really wanted a good Non-political movie set in universe with in universe problems..

Not the big bad White Racist, misogynist, Bigot boogey man hiding under every minority bed.

This stuff is all dealing with the production of the movies, and has not been reflected in the actual stories themselves.

 

[starsuperion]

I'm going to have to disagree on the plot and casting.

JD I respect that. I just can't understand you not seeing the blatant scene for scene rip off of a New hope! I mean it is so obvious it's burning my eyes! LOL...

It's not racist against white males, it's just an attempt to increase the diversity of the franchise, and it's based around the fact we only ever saw white men in Empire in the OT. Overall there is a pretty major lack of women and people of color in the OT, so I don't see where trying to make a point of adding more diversity is a problem.

I never said Diverse Casting was the issue. No..
My issue is with making the entirety of the Remnant, sorry First Order all white with Minorities portrayed in the position of the hero against the rich, wealthy, space NAZI empire. In the original Trilogy yes, there could have been more diversity, however look at the time It was produced in context. demographics, and the amount of minority actors at the time (who also happened to be free to do the movie without scheduled conflicts.) it is easy to pick at the original trilogy but there are factors that should be pulled in to legitimately examine that, rather then look back with todays standards and not include other factors that may have made that lack of more diversity an issue. I know one thing that Brit actors in the late 70s and early 80s were cheap, it is not until the standards of movie and TV shows in Britain has come on par with our Hollywood corporate monstrosity, that more actors in the UK are now being paid much more then the 1970s-early 80s would allow for. these things should be brought into the discussion to give the classic trilogy a proper look. The dichotomy set up in this new series is offensive to white people, and yet that seems to be acceptable. it shouldn't be. There should have been the opportunity to have more minorities in the First Order, and more Prominent Aliens in the Resistance as leads in the new series. But they took the politically motivated way out. It was and is offensive. Just as it was offensive to make the Black Guy a Women chasing Sanitation worker and coward, who still gets his butt handed to him at the end of the movie. john Boyega deserved more..

It looks like this all came from the EU, which no longer counts.
But let's go back to Rogue One. (Kathleen Kennedy's love child in addition to TFA)

I support this, people have been using pop culture to raise awareness and promote stuff like this. In the current era this kind of stuff is more important that ever..

the EU was a great wealth of stories and ideas, and now those ideas, that work all that time and effort and items sold on it, now mean jack.. that's a pretty crappy way to slap fans in their face.. The CCG Star Wars Cards Incident comes to mind.. still pissed about that! sure.. you can support that. Again, I respect your view.. but disagree whole heartedly..

as for the Sorely needed now more then ever?? really?? We've had commentary in pop culture for the last 30 years, rather then take the road less traveled and enjoy pure scifi without all the political drama, they took the easy and quite offensive way out, and made a series of movies set with Minority VS White drama set in space, and it is offensive. More diversity for me would have been to take the EU track line, and make Humans or multi color (given this is a new slate for Disney to try a new thing) and go that route, and add more Aliens into the resistance, thereby turning Star Wars into a Xenophobia Commentary something we don't see as we have yet to have an alien invasion or refugee issue, then to turn it into a White on Minority commentary set in space. Again.. offensive..

If my memory is correct in the entire OT, there are only five women with actual spoken dialogue, Beru, Leia, Mothma, an officer on Endor, and Jabba's slave.

Correct, But you can't as a writer write movies according to a quota of diversity.. that would make the story suffer because ultimately it's someone else's story, not a diversity quota to satisfy some metric. It's called art for a reason. It's not perfect. It's not supposed to be. But you can't criticize the original Trilogy by today's standards. The audience back then was different. USA demographics were different. Available actors were different. UK actors were cheaper to allow for the special effects which were brand spanking new at the time and cost allot to develop for the movie. there's just allot there not factored in when people criticize the casting of the OT.

I don't remember anybody ever saying only white people can be racist..

They didn't have to, the visual implications spoke for themselves..

This stuff is all dealing with the production of the movies, and has not been reflected in the actual stories themselves.

The Story of TFA is the story of Luke, a droid with plans, a desert planet, a blown up death planet killing weapon, and the death of a father or mentor figure just before the small port is hit destroying the station/planet.. it's the SAME plot. Just they gave Rey all the training in the world that we took a journey with luke on, but just gave it to her because well.. I am sorry to say it.. She's a Mary Sue..

Rogue One.. Again, All White people are the enemies.. A mary Sue 120 lb. female who takes on armored troopers like they are just rag dolls. the story, the plot, the characters.. lack luster at best. Not enough development on them. it felt like a cheap fan flick with high quality CGI. Yawn..

At least with Amidala She was responsible for the entire planet of Naboo, and sought out the Gungans to defend their world against droid invaders, which was a novel concept, and then the clones versus droid wars, brought it all home when Luke was speaking to Obi Wan in a New Hope, and the C3PO turn away at the cantina explains much why droids are still disliked in the future from those prequels. Say what you may about the Prequels, but they were original. bad or good. Lucas wasn't scared to try something new.

Rogue One, TFA, TLJ will be rehashes. I think there was an article recently that even said it was going to be like Empire Strikes back. Corporate Disney.. pffft!!.. I wish they did things differently.. all I can do now is just ignore the movies (even if Carie Fisher's last scenes are in it) and move on to better and less offensive scifi.

I don't follow any Ideology. It keeps me free for new ideas to entertain, and dismiss.. there's always new data, and to be ideological or married to one philosophy or the other means you can dismiss new data without looking closer into it, or being influenced to see something thru someone else's point of view. Not being a conservative, or Liberal for example, frees you up to see things objectively. I wish the movie industry would look at fantasy and SCIFI that way, there is surely no lack of commentary sorely needed now more then ever or not, it's there in droves.. it would be refreshing to not see it once and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

That's really all I got to say on it. I don't begrudge anyone for disagreeing with me, to each their own. But I still think, Disney and JJ went the wrong way with their series. There was so much more they could have done to be original and continue the story of the universe without destroying the original series plots. But whatever. What's done is done. Enjoy the movie, I hope my commentary on the whole Disney franchise doesn't ruin it for you. There will just be one more seat at the theatre for you and your friends. :-)
~Cheers

 

[Ithekro]

I just can't understand you not seeing the blatant scene for scene rip off of a New hope!

Because it wasn't. It was thematically similar, but it was also similar to parts of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Probably to get the all out of they way so they can move forwards after getting people back into the OT spirit of things. We will know for certain in six months.

 

[starsuperion]

Because it wasn't. It was thematically similar, but it was also similar to parts of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Probably to get the all out of they way so they can move forwards after getting people back into the OT spirit of things. We will know for certain in six months.

We'll see..
but here is my friend's scene for scene critique showing yea, its a total rip off..

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I respect your opinion.. but still call it a rip off.

We'll see how TLJ takes Empire and rips it off or not. I'll ask my friends or wait to see it on red box for 1.00

 

[Reverend]

^Congratulations, you and your friend have the ability of basic pattern recognition. Any other neat tricks like imagination, critical thinking or independent thought? No? Oh well, too much to ask all at once I suppose.

 

[Gaith]

This thread:

Also, the news was being discussed just fine in the existing Solo movie thread, thanks.

 

[JD]

I never said Diverse Casting was the issue. No..
My issue is with making the entirety of the Remnant, sorry First Order all white with Minorities portrayed in the position of the hero against the rich, wealthy, space NAZI empire. In the original Trilogy yes, there could have been more diversity, however look at the time It was produced in context. demographics, and the amount of minority actors at the time (who also happened to be free to do the movie without scheduled conflicts.) it is easy to pick at the original trilogy but there are factors that should be pulled in to legitimately examine that, rather then look back with todays standards and not include other factors that may have made that lack of more diversity an issue. I know one thing that Brit actors in the late 70s and early 80s were cheap, it is not until the standards of movie and TV shows in Britain has come on par with our Hollywood corporate monstrosity, that more actors in the UK are now being paid much more then the 1970s-early 80s would allow for. these things should be brought into the discussion to give the classic trilogy a proper look.

Ok, I'm not trying to accuse them of being purposefully racist, but that doesn't change the fact that they were pretty damn white movies, and there are plenty of other more diversely cast movies out from the same era. And there definitely were a whole lot more than five actresses capable of speaking roles.

The dichotomy set up in this new series is offensive to white people, and yet that seems to be acceptable. it shouldn't be. There should have been the opportunity to have more minorities in the First Order, and more Prominent Aliens in the Resistance as leads in the new series. But they took the politically motivated way out. It was and is offensive. Just as it was offensive to make the Black Guy a Women chasing Sanitation worker and coward, who still gets his butt handed to him at the end of the movie. john Boyega deserved more..

It's really, really not offensive. Sure they could have gone in different directions with things, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the way the decided to go. We need more diverse heroes in our sci-fi and fantasy, and that's what they've done. White people have gotten plenty of time as the heroes in these kinds of stories, so if they want to make a point of giving us more diverse heroes in these movies I fully support it. This stuff has been behind the scenes anyways, and hasn't really impacted the actual stories we're getting in the movies themselves.

the EU was a great wealth of stories and ideas, and now those ideas, that work all that time and effort and items sold on it, now mean jack.. that's a pretty crappy way to slap fans in their face.. The CCG Star Wars Cards Incident comes to mind.. still pissed about that! sure.. you can support that. Again, I respect your view.. but disagree whole heartedly..

The EU was way to complicated by the time we get to the era the new movies are taking place, and there was no way they could have used all of that with alienating the non-fans who hadn't followed it. They haven't completely disowned the EU, there are taking some concepts from it here and there.

as for the Sorely needed now more then ever?? really?? We've had commentary in pop culture for the last 30 years, rather then take the road less traveled and enjoy pure scifi without all the political drama, they took the easy and quite offensive way out, and made a series of movies set with Minority VS White drama set in space, and it is offensive. More diversity for me would have been to take the EU track line, and make Humans or multi color (given this is a new slate for Disney to try a new thing) and go that route, and add more Aliens into the resistance, thereby turning Star Wars into a Xenophobia Commentary something we don't see as we have yet to have an alien invasion or refugee issue, then to turn it into a White on Minority commentary set in space. Again.. offensive..

In a time when racism has become so rampant in the country that we've elected somebody like Donald Trump to the Presidency, then it is more important than ever to make sure that we see more than just a bunch of white dudes as the heroes in our pop culture.

Correct, But you can't as a writer write movies according to a quota of diversity.. that would make the story suffer because ultimately it's someone else's story, not a diversity quota to satisfy some metric. It's called art for a reason. It's not perfect. It's not supposed to be.

No writing according to a diversity quota just to have one is not good, but that doesn't mean you can't write roles for more than just white people or cast more than just white people.

The Story of TFA is the story of Luke, a droid with plans, a desert planet, a blown up death planet killing weapon, and the death of a father or mentor figure just before the small port is hit destroying the station/planet.. it's the SAME plot. Just they gave Rey all the training in the world that we took a journey with luke on, but just gave it to her because well.. I am sorry to say it.. She's a Mary Sue..

Yes they did take some of the plot points from ANH, but the specifics of how things played out were different enough that I was happy with it.

Rogue One.. Again, All White people are the enemies..

What about Jyn, her mother, Mon Mothma, General Dodonna, Leia, Galen, and the Rebel pilots? As far as I can remember none of them were the enemy.

At least with Amidala She was responsible for the entire planet of Naboo, and sought out the Gungans to defend their world against droid invaders, which was a novel concept, and then the clones versus droid wars, brought it all home when Luke was speaking to Obi Wan in a New Hope, and the C3PO turn away at the cantina explains much why droids are still disliked in the future from those prequels. Say what you may about the Prequels, but they were original. bad or good. Lucas wasn't scared to try something new.

Sure, and Rogue One was something new, and I'm pretty sure The Last Jedi, and Episode IX will be too.

Rogue One, TFA, TLJ will be rehashes. I think there was an article recently that even said it was going to be like Empire Strikes back. Corporate Disney.. pffft!!.. I wish they did things differently.. all I can do now is just ignore the movies (even if Carie Fisher's last scenes are in it) and move on to better and less offensive scifi.

Rogue One was not a rehash of anything from the OT, and based on what I've read, it sounds like TLJ will be pretty different too.

I don't follow any Ideology. It keeps me free for new ideas to entertain, and dismiss.. there's always new data, and to be ideological or married to one philosophy or the other means you can dismiss new data without looking closer into it, or being influenced to see something thru someone else's point of view. Not being a conservative, or Liberal for example, frees you up to see things objectively. I wish the movie industry would look at fantasy and SCIFI that way, there is surely no lack of commentary sorely needed now more then ever or not, it's there in droves.. it would be refreshing to not see it once and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I don't really see that much political commentary in the movies themselves, like I said before, everything you've talked about has been going on behind the scenes. It's not like we're getting characters giving big drawn out speeches about the evils of racism or something.

That's really all I got to say on it. I don't begrudge anyone for disagreeing with me, to each their own. But I still think, Disney and JJ went the wrong way with their series. There was so much more they could have done to be original and continue the story of the universe without destroying the original series plots. But whatever. What's done is done. Enjoy the movie, I hope my commentary on the whole Disney franchise doesn't ruin it for you. There will just be one more seat at the theatre for you and your friends. :-)
~Cheers

Since I completely disagree with everything you've said, you can rest assured that you have had no impact on how I feel about the movies.[/QUOTE]

 

[starsuperion]

^Congratulations, you and your friend have the ability of basic pattern recognition. Any other neat tricks like imagination, critical thinking or independent thought? No? Oh well, too much to ask all at once I suppose.

Okay while I admit that video isn't really a good fully thought out explanation, I have another one that lays the case for rip off out pretty well. I'll update this post later. Please take time to watch objectively. If you disagree with the points made. I would love to hear them. You see I'm not necessarily married to the idea that the new Star Wars is all crap, but it's gonna take some serious and concise discussions to get me to come over to that side of the fence. Right now with TLJ not out yet, I'm skeptical but not unreasonable.

EDIT: Okay, Here is the Best I have that I have seen that makes all the points and cases I have for the Movie online. It is an hour long. But the reviewer does make good points about the movie, the shooting, the direction, and the acting. Particularly that of Daisy Ridley whom I think sucks as an actress.. But that is my opinion. I would love to hear your thoughts after.

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[starsuperion]

Ok, I'm not trying to accuse them of being purposefully racist, but that doesn't change the fact that they were pretty damn white movies, and there are plenty of other more diversely cast movies out from the same era. And there definitely were a whole lot more than five actresses capable of speaking roles..

Maybe, and Maybe Not. There were other factors that came into play in the making of the original Star Wars movies. Again, those actors of color may have not been available. May have not been able to take a pay cut, and there wasn't a diversity quota back then like there is now. It was and is still a racist town there in Hollywood. regardless of the Progressive messages they try to spout. Hypocrisy runs rampant on Rodeo Drive, and in Burbank and the 90210 zip codes. "pretty damn white movies" if you think that is bad, you should check out all the Bollywood flicks, the Japanese movies, and other countries and their exclusions of races in them. Pretty damn white seems like a statement that says, I don't like seeing white people in a movie. I wonder how BET movies would be perceived from that POV...why the separation? shouldn't there be an all inclusionary vision, instead of separating ones self?

It's really, really not offensive. Sure they could have gone in different directions with things, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the way the decided to go. We need more diverse heroes in our sci-fi and fantasy, and that's what they've done. White people have gotten plenty of time as the heroes in these kinds of stories, so if they want to make a point of giving us more diverse heroes in these movies I fully support it. This stuff has been behind the scenes anyways, and hasn't really impacted the actual stories we're getting in the movies themselves..

JD it's really really not offensive if you are not white or are white and hate yourself as a race. I find it offensive. What they are basically telling you in the movie is that all white people are rich, racist, and evil imperialists.. with a few exceptions. that direction wasn't present in the original trilogy, as you have said it was a pretty damn white movie, so the dichotomy between minorities in the rebel alliance and the empire weren't there. but to remake the series with minorities in the position of oppression by an all white empire remnant, is blatant and offensive and a stereotype of white people in favor of pushing an agenda. I agree, diverse heroes and action in SCIFI is great! I don't think that stuff hasn't impacted the movies, when you have the movie itself showing you twice now, that only white people are in the empire remnant, sorry first order.. and the few whites in the resistance are with minorities. it feels very political, and if not seen, then only those who agree with that POV are unaffected. Hell, even the writers made tweets saying as much.. and that prompted the Disney CEO to have to come out and say it wasn't so after the damage had been done.

The EU was way to complicated by the time we get to the era the new movies are taking place, and there was no way they could have used all of that with alienating the non-fans who hadn't followed it. They haven't completely disowned the EU, there are taking some concepts from it here and there..

That EU excuse is always trudged out when the criticism flies about their writing and direction they took the movies. Yea, would have been nice to see the Mandalorians invading the galaxy again? sure.. If the writers in Hollywood had any vision these days, they could have written a new series that still left the EU intact, without mentioning events in it, and why even go back to the Skywalkers? George Lucas even said in an interview in 2005, if an episode 7 was to take place, he didn't see it needing to be dealing with those characters, and or trying to restore democracy to the galaxy. There were so many ways to go, but corporate interests wanted the empire to milk again, and gave us a new rehash series. It's not original. neither was Rogue One. With this Han movie.. there may be a way to finally break that trend, since it's a one off. But again, Han's death kinda makes it bitter sweet, knowing the whole time I watch that movie, his emo freakazoid son is going to kill him (as an Obiwan stand in) and that kinda sucks.

In a time when racism has become so rampant in the country that we've elected somebody like Donald Trump to the Presidency, then it is more important than ever to make sure that we see more than just a bunch of white dudes as the heroes in our pop culture...

Rampant Racism? Are you kidding me?? This isn't the Jim Crowe South.. (democrat By the way)..that statement right there assumes everyone thinks the way you do about the President. For a Racist country that voted for Barack Obama twice! I would think that was all put to rest. It couldn't be the liberal Socialistic policies that had anything to do with Trump's election?? No.. racism is the best excuse, cause it's hard to defend.. but only, that's not the reason.. and proof is subjective to the website propaganda on both sides.. I'm neither, but I am not oblivious to the arguments on both sides.. I see the BS being spewed by both POVs and I find it tiresome. which was my main complaint.. why make the First Order all White set against Minorities? Even the writers admitted that? It was a let down for someone trying to escape that crap.. it's just crap.. it's toxic. People need to talk to one another instead of going to their respective corners and attacking one another. diversity of people is wonderful. Diversity of thought seems to be a bad thing.. that is sad.. I am not into group think. I am not a Star Trek Borg.. Left or Right..

No writing according to a diversity quota just to have one is not good, but that doesn't mean you can't write roles for more than just white people or cast more than just white people....

I agree there. I would like to see more Asians in space stories. I used to watch allot of Kung Fu, and Bruce Lee. I always loved Godzilla. But there wasn't much for scifi (American produced) that led to more. George Takei is a fav of mine, and so too was Levar Burton. I remember his reading rainbow stuff shown at my elementary school. to see him be the Chief Engineer of the flagship of Starfleet was awesome. It's not the diversity.. it's the lack of it in the First Order. and the lack of aliens in the resistance.. as it stands.. I feel offended.. Disney and Star Wars is saying to me, your white. so your evil, and only women and minorities will lead the way in the future.

That wasn't even the message in the Matrix Trilogy.. minorities save the world, with a few whites.. that was cool. nothing racist there.. I liked that. But the dichotomy in the new series is just offensive. it just feels that way, and I am sorry, you can't shake that feeling. if Episode 8 is like that, and a ripoff of Empire. I have to say I am done. I'm not alone either..

Yes they did take some of the plot points from ANH, but the specifics of how things played out were different enough that I was happy with it.

What about Jyn, her mother, Mon Mothma, General Dodonna, Leia, Galen, and the Rebel pilots? As far as I can remember none of them were the enemy.


Sure, and Rogue One was something new, and I'm pretty sure The Last Jedi, and Episode IX will be too.


Rogue One was not a rehash of anything from the OT, and based on what I've read, it sounds like TLJ will be pretty different too.


I don't really see that much political commentary in the movies themselves, like I said before, everything you've talked about has been going on behind the scenes. It's not like we're getting characters giving big drawn out speeches about the evils of racism or something.

Since I completely disagree with everything you've said, you can rest assured that you have had no impact on how I feel about the movies.

If you can't see the blatant imagery, then you're probably agreeing with it.. Sad really because it is there.

But can we move from this to Ron Howard?? I am interested in seeing what you think now that the directors are gone and he's coming in.