Yay! Star Trek! [spoilers]

[xvicente]

At last I saw Into Darkness! just only yesterday.

Now I can join this board again. What's up?

where are the threads for:

1 -isn't it unethical to capture Khan alive just to harvest his blood (then freeze him)? is that legal in the future?

Maybe I'm just old, but it bothers me movies these days seem to like the HEROES as cold killers. Kirk in ST2009 executed Nero just like "He cant escape now. Fire All weapons!". Shatner's Kirk would never do that. Compare the ending of "Balance of Terror". Other example just so you get the idea is Optimus Prime in Transformers 2: "any last words Decepticon? *boom* shoots him in the face". The heroes of my childhood were more nice.

2- Nimoy's cameo was so useless. And I love Nimoy. So many people got angry by the utter senseless destruction of Vulcan in 2009 and now its the same planet for all purposes and intents, just called New Vulcan instead. Cheap handwave.

3- I used to hate the Enterprise being built on Earth, but the underwater scene and liftoff was awesome. More so than the recover from the dive at the end of the movie.

4- the 3D wasnt great. I read the film was filmed in 2D thne converted. That must be the problem. The last movie I saw in 3D was TRON and that was awesome beyond awesome.

5- Carol Marcus in underwear is HOT. All 3 seconds of it. A true Star Trek Babe.

6- Why Khan, after the 72 torpedoes exploded, thinking all his comrades were dead, decided to hit Starfleet with his ship? what is his problem with Starfleet? He had a problem with Robocop, but he had already killed him. The logic alternative was for him to do like Nero and "fire everything" at the Enterprise. But Nero was lame so that could be a stupid ending for the movie. Khan should rather try to hide and make plans to conquest the galaxy alone than die.

7- Hoorray for casting Robocop as Kirk's father-in-law. When I saw him I thought it would be a short cameo because he was on Enterprise(the series) and he would sign orders and disappear from the movie. But I loved to be wrong.

8 - And the adventure continues

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Yay! Star Trek!

1 - I suspect the next film will begin with Khan being thawed for trial, and escaping.

2 - I loved it. Far better and with more gravitas than watching the crew Google "Khan" (which we already saw the 1960's equivalent of in "Space Seed")

6 - he responded in kind, exactly as he did when he thought Marcus had killed his people earlier - but on a far bigger scale. Earth and Starfleet was important to Marcus, and to the Enterprise crew too. Khan hurt it.

Also Khan likely knew he would survive the crash, as Spock knew.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Yay! Star Trek!

1. No one was a cold killer (except Khan). Spock was in a rage when he went after Khan, but he must've been trying to take him alive, because he tried the neck pinch on him. Not exactly a killer move. As far as "harvesting" his blood goes, don't see the problem with that. Khan probably had a trial and his sentence was to be refrozen. That has two advantages. First, he's not alive on a penal planet somewhere plotting an escape. Second, it is a more humanitarian "Star Trek-like" ending. He's with his family, again.
As far as what Kirk did to Nero, that's been talked to death, but remember that this Kirk is not the seasoned veteran we saw in TOS, yet. Spock's behavior in that scene wasn't exactly what one would've expected from him, either.

2. Nimoy's appearance was kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation for the writers. I thought it wasn't crucial to the story, but handled well. It answered the question begged by the end of ST09: would anyone rely on Spock Prime for information? We now know he said he wouldn't interfere, but he still gave Spock at least some information in this case. Nimoy must've truly liked his experience in ST09 and the people around him to have come back for that short cameo.

3. It was built where it was built, and we live with it. Years ago, Trek starships flying around in the atmosphere made me uncomfortable, too. But frankly, in this day and age, with fly-by-wire airplanes that aren't even aerodynamic and would fall like rocks without the computers keeping them aloft, why can't a 23rd century starship also be an atmospheric vehicle?

4. I liked the 3D, myself. YMMV, but I found it nonintrusive but impressive in some scenes.

5. Yes, but she's no Helen Noel.

6. After 72 torpedoes went off inside his ship (shouldn't 72 torpedoes going off inside the ship have completely destroyed it, right there?) the ship was probably too damaged to be useful. Whether or not he planned to live through crashing the ship into Starfleet is problematic, but it was obviously the act of a very pissed off man seeking some immediate form of vengeance for what he believed happened.

7. Keeping Weller under wraps for most of the pre-release publicity was an interesting move. Cumberbatch was both an attraction and a red herring, in some ways. Weller was great in the role, son.

8. Yes. Yes, it does.

 

[xvicente]

Re: Yay! Star Trek!

As far as "harvesting" his blood goes, don't see the problem with that.

No? I must be out of my human mind.

As far as what Kirk did to Nero, that's been talked to death

I'd like to see the thread. Could anyone please point? That ending really took me out of the movie. The Enterprise falling into the black hole for no reason too..

Yes, but she's no Helen Noel.

Please PLEASE a link to Helen Noel in underwear

 

[BillJ]

Likely McCoy took some blood, then the decision to refreeze Khan was made by someone higher up in either Starfleet or the Federation government.

 

[Set Harth]

Shatner's Kirk would never do that.

Shatner's Kirk went after his best friend with a phaser rifle with intent to kill.

 

[BillJ]

Shatner's Kirk would never do that.

Shatner's Kirk went after his best friend with a phaser rifle with intent to kill.

Not to mention he continued firing on Chang's Bird-of-Prey even after it had been dealt a crippling blow.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Shatner's Kirk would never do that.

Shatner's Kirk went after his best friend with a phaser rifle with intent to kill.

Not to mention he continued firing on Chang's Bird-of-Prey even after it had been dealt a crippling blow.

And boot stomped Kruge over a cliff.

 

[BillJ]

And boot stomped Kruge over a cliff.

Not sure he had much of a choice there though. Besides going over the cliff with him.

But then again, I like the boot stomp and the fire everything line from Star Trek 2009.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Plus, Kirk had asked Nero for his surrender twice.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And boot stomped Kruge over a cliff.

Not sure he had much of a choice there though. Besides going over the cliff with him.

But then again, I like the boot stomp and the fire everything line from Star Trek 2009.

That's how TNG Picard would have handled it.

 

[BillJ]

And boot stomped Kruge over a cliff.

Not sure he had much of a choice there though. Besides going over the cliff with him.

But then again, I like the boot stomp and the fire everything line from Star Trek 2009.

That's how TNG Picard would have handled it.

And you just solved the riddle as to why Picard and Gang are no longer on the big-screen.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Not sure he had much of a choice there though. Besides going over the cliff with him.

But then again, I like the boot stomp and the fire everything line from Star Trek 2009.

That's how TNG Picard would have handled it.

And you just solved the riddle as to why Picard and Gang are no longer on the big-screen.

They could always do that TNG reboot with Vin Diesel as Picard.

 

[Clancy_s]

You raise some interesting points.

1. I cannot agree with the proposition that an individual's autonomy should be held sacrosanct at all times. The warp core misalignment happened because Khan fired on the Enterprise once he got his crew back, so Khan was responsible for Kirk's "death" (IMO if it's reversible it's not death but that's not relevant). In that case IMO it's reasonable to take some blood, which does him no significant physical harm, to reverse the great harm he did Kirk.

Freezing Khan was interesting - I doubt he had an open trial, but that's just an impression from the film, I have no evidence either way. Khan had been sentenced to death for war crimes, unspecified in this movie but based on TOS that was mass murder / attempted genocide. Furthermore Khan said to Spock he was going to continue trying to improve the species, implying plans for more 'genetic cleansing'. I don't think he could be considered an innocent victim but one could argue he should have been executed, if they still do that. Maybe the Feds froze him because they don't have the death penalty but consider Khan and his people too dangerous to let loose, maybe they want access to their 'magic blood' if needed...

4. After a bit of experimentation (Avatar, The Hobbit, STID) most of the time I prefer 2D.

5. Undoubtedly, but Carol Marcus deciding to get changed in public was kinda weird, and people not behaving like people bothers me more than physics not behaving like physics. Also arguably sexist since they cut the gratuitous shot of Khan in the shower but left that one in.

6. His crew had apparently been killed by Spock, also star fleet. Also Marcus must have had a fair few willing co-conspirators. Taking out the Academy in San Fran was the best chance Khan had at hitting back at them at that point.

8. Yay!