Xon, Decker, Ilia vs. the rest of the cast

[pfontaine2]

I always thought it strange that Roddenberry felt the need to include Xon, Decker and Ilia when Phase II was being considered as a new TV show.

The inclusion of Xon makes sense if only to have another Vulcan on the Enterprise and free up the role of first officer.

Decker was there to replace Shatner in case Shatner became too expensive or as leverage when salary negotiations came up.

Ilia is there to fill the vacant spot left by Chekov because Chekov was being moved to the weapon's station. She also added story potential given her empathic abilities and certain cultural differences.

If you read any of the existing Phase II scripts, Xon, Decker and Ilia play huge roles in each episode relegating Uhura, Scotty, Sulu and Checkov to the same subordinate roles they had before.

Three new, important characters were being wedged between the three lead characters and the four subordinate characters making a large cast even larger.

If I were one of the four subordinates, I'd be happy for the job but I wonder if any of them ever felt slighted by the addition of the three new characters. Is there any mention of this in their biographies?

 

[Orphalesion]

Well what I understand of Phase II Xon was supposed to replace Spock, because Nimoy didn't want to commit to another series. He was really a Vulcan proto-version of Data with the wish to understand and experience human emotion.

Illia was there for sex appeal, since Nichols was aging by that time.

Decker was there because Shatner was aging and to possibly replace him.

I think Decker, Illia and Xon were to be groomed as the new main characters once/if Shatner left, hence their prominence in the scripts. Possibly other roles would have been replaced with younger cast as well if the actors decided to leave.

If Phase II had happened I hope they would have eventually grown out of the "three main characters and the rest are glorified extras" routine an gave every character their time of the day, like it happened in TNG after Season 1.

 

[EnriqueH]

Man, that makes me wish we had a season of Phase II!

If they had focused more on Xon, Ilia, and Decker, that would've meant expanding the mythology and core group.

If they had made movies after Phase II, it would've been cool.

Can you imagine Ilia and Xon helping search for Spock?

 

[Maurice]

Having read some Phase II scripts, some of which also include Rand, the show's cast would have been huge and none of the minor characters from the TOS days would have fared well. They really should have dropped some of them.

 

[EnriqueH]

You probably could've promoted Sulu and Uhura to another ship. Sulu could've made captain by 1980!

Don't get me wrong, in this theoretical universe that has Phase II, I still would've loved to have Sulu and Uhura, but they could've been relegated to guest stars that occasionally drop by. To make it all more realistic. (Chekov was the youngest, so it's viable he'd still be aboard, albeit promoted.)

Sounds like they had a contingency in place for Kirk to have been relegated to minor character status and have Decker take over.

Who was going to be First Officer in Phase II if Kirk had moved on? Did they get that far?

Scotty would've probably opted to remain chief engineer.

It would've been cool to have Uhura, who was fourth in command during TOS, as I recall.

 

[Therin of Andor]

There's no way to predict "break out" characters. Frakes got higher billing (and salary) than Spiner, but Data was in more important story arcs (and got a pay rise in the movies).

Who would have thought Nog, Rom and Garak would get so many stories in DS9, and they weren't even in the opening credits?

 

[EnriqueH]

True.

I was thinking that this is more for like Phase II Season II, but fan reaction would determine that, I guess.

Still, TOS has always been great at casting new talent. They just weren't good at following through and doing cool stuff with a few of them.

 

[Lance]

My impression is that Gene intended to correct a perceived wrong of TOS (the "big three do everything" notion), and instead diversify the cast to a much broader ensemble to let everyone have their slice of the pie at one point or another. And looking through the Phase II stories that did make it, it all comes across as a very proto-TNG: Kirk's still there, and very much the determinator of every script, but his actual screen presence in plot terms seemed lessened, as he wasn't on as many landing parties, in the thick of things, etc.

It's impossible to say what would have happened had those scripts actually ended up in front of the cameras. TOS itself actually started out with similar ideals at the very beginning, and much of Season One reflected that, but it leeched onto the trimutive by about the mid-point of the first season and never let go. Maybe something similar might've ended up happening on Phase II, or maybe not.

Phase II is one of Star Trek's great "hypotheticals".

I've always wondered if a number of things in the Phase II concept were designed as "trapdoors" in case Shatner's ego got out of control again. Decker is the obvious one, but making the whole supporting cast much larger, and writing the scripts with Kirk in a very different dramatic role to that he played on TOS, all seems to be there as a counter to Shatner taking directors aside and whispering in their ear about bolstering Kirk's part, like he often did on the set during TOS...

 

[HigHurtenflurst]

Is there a link anyone can provide to the actual scripts? I can't seem to find anything but short summaries. Thx!

 

[Dukhat]

I've always felt that they should have made this series instead of TMP. I think it would have worked so much better on so many levels. A true transition between the original cast and a newer, younger cast.

 

[EnriqueH]

It would've been cool to see the series dynamic evolve without Spock (as much as I love Spock).

I can see Kirk and McCoy having more screen time, kinda like in STIII.

 

[Mudd]

I don't believe that more than one or two of the cast were being offered season-long contracts on Phase II.

 

[Leviathan]

...I was really expecting this to be more of a "Who'd win in a fight" thread.

On that line I'd have to give it to these 3 young'uns.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Having read some Phase II scripts, some of which also include Rand, the show's cast would have been huge and none of the minor characters from the TOS days would have fared well. They really should have dropped some of them.

I agree. Except for Kirk and McCoy, the rest of the characters should've been brand new. Hell, even the movies should've started dropping the secondary characters and replacing them with new blood, keeping only Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

My impression is that Gene intended to correct a perceived wrong of TOS (the "big three do everything" notion), and instead diversify the cast to a much broader ensemble to let everyone have their slice of the pie at one point or another.

There was no perceived wrong to correct. Television shows in the 1960s weren't completely centered around an ensemble the way they are today. Sure, there were one or two. But "Star Trek" was never really designed to be that despite what Nichelle Nicolas or George Takei might say. The show was designed around the captain and the decisions he must make. William Shatner was clearly the lead. Leonard Nimoy, the co-star. Then De Kelly co-starred in the second and third season.

Quite frankly, reading the scripts for "Phase II" like Maurice, you can see the stories still centered around a "Big Four" — Kirk, Xon, Ilia and Decker. More often than not, it was Kirk, Xon and Ilia. The secondary cast was still that — secondary.

TNG never really knew how to handle an ensemble — a lot of its story construction was similar to 1960s shows. Television had moved on and TNG really should've looked to "Hill Street Blues" on how to handle an ensemble.

I remember reading that Roddenberry even in the late 1980s didn't understand ensemble shows. He came from a different era of television writing.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Decker, Ilia and Xon would've been the "hot, young stars" to attract new audiences, so it makes sense to focus on them.

 

[Ithekro]

In TNG what would translate to Riker, Troi, and Data. Yet the focus stayed with Data and shifted to Worf. Troi and Riker not so often as staying with Picard, Worf, and Data.

If that was Phase II, that means the focus would have remained on Xon and Kirk, but the plots would have moved away from Ilia and Decker to maybe Chekov if they coulld come up with some backstory. Or if they had introduced another alien to the crew, that character (Worf managed to get a lot of stories because exploring Klingons is interesting...exploring Vulcans would not have been quite as interesting with Xon since we did a lot of that with Spock already) If Ilia's people were interesting enough (and the whole planet wasn't like Risa) she might have gotten some story arcs based on her people. Otherwise? Probably focus on Kirk, Xon, maybe McCoy and Scott.

 

[Orphalesion]

I agree. Except for Kirk and McCoy, the rest of the characters should've been brand new. Hell, even the movies should've started dropping the secondary characters and replacing them with new blood, keeping only Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

Why even replace them if all they're gonna do is work as one-line background extras to the three crusty guys? Seems like a waste of perfectly good characters. Unless you meant that the new characters could play larger roles.

There was no perceived wrong to correct. Television shows in the 1960s weren't completely centered around an ensemble the way they are today. Sure, there were one or two. But "Star Trek" was never really designed to be that despite what Nichelle Nicolas or George Takei might say. The show was designed around the captain and the decisions he must make. William Shatner was clearly the lead. Leonard Nimoy, the co-star. Then De Kelly co-starred in the second and third season.

To me that seems like a wrong in want of correction, also Phase II was going to be a late 70s TV show. I agree with Nichols in asking "where is the Uhura Episode?" If someone's not interested in Kirk or Spock then TOS is not for them.

Quite frankly, reading the scripts for "Phase II" like Maurice, you can see the stories still centered around a "Big Four" — Kirk, Xon, Ilia and Decker. More often than not, it was Kirk, Xon and Ilia. The secondary cast was still that — secondary.

Yes, very much so, and while Xon and Ilia do sound more interesting to me than Spock and McCoy it's still somewhat limited in my eyes.

TNG never really knew how to handle an ensemble — a lot of its story construction was similar to 1960s shows. Television had moved on and TNG really should've looked to "Hill Street Blues" on how to handle an ensemble.

I agree with you when it comes to the First, and possibly the Second Season of TNG, but from the Third one onwards they (slowly, very slowly) did get better about it. At least every character got their focus episodes as well as a first and last name (except Data, obviously) It never quite mastered the ensemble cast like DS9 did, but compared to TOS it was leaps and bounds of improvement.
Weirdly TNG did just throw out the Ensemble cast again once it came it came to the movies. The movies where pretty much Picard and Data having adventures between talking props - and suffered for it. Note that a lot of the TOS movies actually expanded on the secondary characters.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Except for Kirk and McCoy, the rest of the characters should've been brand new. ...

... But "Star Trek" was never really designed to be that despite what Nichelle Nicolas or George Takei might say.

It's important to remember where the push for "Phase II" was coming from: panels at conventions in the 70s. Shatner and Nimoy were often working and not in attendance, but Roddenberry, Barrett, Takei, Nichols, Doohan, Koenig - and even Whitney (it was at a convention that Roddenberry apologised for her being dropped all those years ago), would all be there, listening to fans talk about how each of the underlings needed more to do.

Sure, a new TV series could have had a whole new cast of characters, but the convention attendees were telling Roddenberry that they wanted the old group back, as more of an ensemble.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

With Hill Street Blues, there were multiple multi-episode arcs going on simultaneously, one or more for each main character. A single episode would tend to visit each arc and advance it, and plus the characters would interact in events particular to each episode. It was very much like a soap opera in that respect, but with high production values, locations, and so forth, so ready for prime time.

With TNG, there was this annoying A/B plot structure. One of the plots was generally banal, and it rarely had anything to do with any other episode. That's like a road map for the wrong way to handle an ensemble cast, because the banal plot is just filler for the other.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And yet, one of the strengths of TOS in repeat syndication: most episodes could be (and were) shown in any order.