Xindi Arc Question

[Danny99]

I'm watching Zero Hour on Space as we speak and it brought up a question I've had for a while.

I know that the Xindi questioned the Sphere Builders, but why in the last episodes are the characters played by Tucker Smallwood and Rick Worthy, in addition to Degra's crew suddenly take orders from Archer.

These people seem to be begging to be led by anyone.

 

[Shatnertage]

Yeah, it seems there were some inconsistencies there. I guess you could say the Xindi evolved as the show went on. Degra, for example, was just a scientist when he first appeared, but by the end was a key political figure as well.

The more I think about it, the more I wish we'd seen more of the Xindi in season 4. It would be nice to have at least one episode where we get a sense of how they cope with being complicit in the murder of 7 million humans, and how they try to rebuild their society after being led down a blind alley by the Sphere Builders.

I also wanted Archer to face some consequences for his actions. Instead of being told that he did unethical things, but did them for a good cause so it's OK (saw "Home" last night, Soval's speech is fresh in my mind), why not have him try to find the ship he marooned and make restitution to those he wronged?

 

[I am Surak]

Yeah, it seems there were some inconsistencies there. I guess you could say the Xindi evolved as the show went on. Degra, for example, was just a scientist when he first appeared, but by the end was a key political figure as well.

The more I think about it, the more I wish we'd seen more of the Xindi in season 4. It would be nice to have at least one episode where we get a sense of how they cope with being complicit in the murder of 7 million humans, and how they try to rebuild their society after being led down a blind alley by the Sphere Builders.

I also wanted Archer to face some consequences for his actions. Instead of being told that he did unethical things, but did them for a good cause so it's OK (saw "Home" last night, Soval's speech is fresh in my mind), why not have him try to find the ship he marooned and make restitution to those he wronged?

Well said Shatnertage.
I - Surak - was disturbed by the marooning of the ship. A first contact that was handled very badly. At least a mention should have been made that these people were helped. For all we know they may still try to get home.

 

[JiNX-01]

Yeah, it seems there were some inconsistencies there. I guess you could say the Xindi evolved as the show went on. Degra, for example, was just a scientist when he first appeared, but by the end was a key political figure as well.

The more I think about it, the more I wish we'd seen more of the Xindi in season 4. It would be nice to have at least one episode where we get a sense of how they cope with being complicit in the murder of 7 million humans, and how they try to rebuild their society after being led down a blind alley by the Sphere Builders.

I also wanted Archer to face some consequences for his actions. Instead of being told that he did unethical things, but did them for a good cause so it's OK (saw "Home" last night, Soval's speech is fresh in my mind), why not have him try to find the ship he marooned and make restitution to those he wronged?

Well said Shatnertage.
I - Surak - was disturbed by the marooning of the ship. A first contact that was handled very badly. At least a mention should have been made that these people were helped. For all we know they may still try to get home.

They weren't completely marooned. They still had impulse power. Loss of their warp core meant they were 2-3 years from home. If Archer hadn't taken that desperate step, the crew of Enterprise would have been eternity from home.

 

[I am Surak]

With all that "what makes us human" talk in every episode I find it strange that Archer, now with full access to the Xindi fleet only a few hours after raiding that ship, would not tell his new allies about what he had to do and ask to dispatch help.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Yeah, it seems there were some inconsistencies there. I guess you could say the Xindi evolved as the show went on. Degra, for example, was just a scientist when he first appeared, but by the end was a key political figure as well.

The more I think about it, the more I wish we'd seen more of the Xindi in season 4. It would be nice to have at least one episode where we get a sense of how they cope with being complicit in the murder of 7 million humans, and how they try to rebuild their society after being led down a blind alley by the Sphere Builders.

I also wanted Archer to face some consequences for his actions. Instead of being told that he did unethical things, but did them for a good cause so it's OK (saw "Home" last night, Soval's speech is fresh in my mind), why not have him try to find the ship he marooned and make restitution to those he wronged?

Well said Shatnertage.
I - Surak - was disturbed by the marooning of the ship. A first contact that was handled very badly. At least a mention should have been made that these people were helped. For all we know they may still try to get home.

They weren't completely marooned. They still had impulse power. Loss of their warp core meant they were 2-3 years from home. If Archer hadn't taken that desperate step, the crew of Enterprise would have been eternity from home.

What I want to know is why Archer and co. were jacking around on Earth when they could have easily traveled back to the former Expanse and given that ship another warp coil, thereby un-marooning them? And making the aliens not think humans were total assholes.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^Yeah, that. I understood why he was justified to commit one crime (stealing, marooning) to prevent the destruction of earth and the murder of billions of people. But besides agonizing over the decision, he never faced the consequences of it.

It could have been fixed with one line of dialog--"the Xindi Aquatics have located the ship, and they're sending a ship to fly them back home." You know, the way they did with Enterprise.

 

[JiNX-01]

^^^Yeah, that. I understood why he was justified to commit one crime (stealing, marooning) to prevent the destruction of earth and the murder of billions of people. But besides agonizing over the decision, he never faced the consequences of it.

It could have been fixed with one line of dialog--"the Xindi Aquatics have located the ship, and they're sending a ship to fly them back home." You know, the way they did with Enterprise.

I agree that there should have been some consequences for Archer and Co., but we were stuck with a stupid cliffhanger that had to be resolved (tho' I think it could have been done in an hour rather than wasting two). That way maybe we could have gotten a decent 2 part homecoming story that would address stuff that happened in the Expanse:

-- T'Pol's mainlining trellium should have come out.
-- The Lyssarians object to their larvae being used to make clones. Imagine how they'd react if they learned that Phlox created a clone in order to harvest his brain tissue (and he murdered him to get it).
-- The piracy to get a warp core.
-- Hoshi should be suffering from post-traumatic stress, not heading off to a Chinese restaurant.

Those are just four things that should have been addressed.

 

[jolene_b_fan]

there may have been a change in writers during the season, taking the Xindi arc in diff directions, or things done for sweeps or in response to viewer comments or ratings. So, the direction may have changed due to that.

 

[shatastrophic]

The entire Xindi arc was bad and a waste of a season...

 

[AMQ]

I agree that there should have been some consequences for Archer and Co., but we were stuck with a stupid cliffhanger that had to be resolved (tho' I think it could have been done in an hour rather than wasting two). That way maybe we could have gotten a decent 2 part homecoming story that would address stuff that happened in the Expanse:

-- T'Pol's mainlining trellium should have come out.
-- The Lyssarians object to their larvae being used to make clones. Imagine how they'd react if they learned that Phlox created a clone in order to harvest his brain tissue (and he murdered him to get it).
-- The piracy to get a warp core.
-- Hoshi should be suffering from post-traumatic stress, not heading off to a Chinese restaurant.

Those are just four things that should have been addressed.

I agree with everything but especially Hoshi part... Actually all of them were almost killed, I mean they almost lost the home planet and the only one dealing with it is Archer and even he gets over it, they should've given them more time... And I never understood how they never mentioned their families, basically they came back home and still they hang out only with each other. Or Trip saying he has no one to go home to... Didn't he have parents and a brother I think(?) that were still alive

 

[Jack Bauer]

The entire Xindi arc was bad and a waste of a season...

And I thought it was the best thing to come out of Trek since DS9's Dominion War.

 

[SFRabid]

I'm watching Zero Hour on Space as we speak and it brought up a question I've had for a while.

I know that the Xindi questioned the Sphere Builders, but why in the last episodes are the characters played by Tucker Smallwood and Rick Worthy, in addition to Degra's crew suddenly take orders from Archer.

These people seem to be begging to be led by anyone.

Well, Archer and crew did discover the real intent behind the sphear builders and discover a way to stop them. That should be reason enough.

 

[SFRabid]

...
-- The Lyssarians object to their larvae being used to make clones. Imagine how they'd react if they learned that Phlox created a clone in order to harvest his brain tissue (and he murdered him to get it).
....

Was their ever indication that Lyssarians are sentient?

 

[LS650]

-- The piracy to get a warp core.

I think that if Enterprise had not been cancelled, that would have made for a great follow-up episode. Maybe Archer would have been arrested or punished in some way for that act - but since TPTB cancelled the series, we'll never know...

 

[Danny99]

I'm watching Zero Hour on Space as we speak and it brought up a question I've had for a while.

I know that the Xindi questioned the Sphere Builders, but why in the last episodes are the characters played by Tucker Smallwood and Rick Worthy, in addition to Degra's crew suddenly take orders from Archer.

These people seem to be begging to be led by anyone.

Well, Archer and crew did discover the real intent behind the sphear builders and discover a way to stop them. That should be reason enough.

But if they have been told that these people are coming to wipe out the rest of your race, would you trust them if they told you the sky was blue?

 

[AMQ]

But if they have been told that these people are coming to wipe out the rest of your race, would you trust them if they told you the sky was blue?

Well Archer and Hoshi had a meeting with that high counsil or sth like that where there were representatives of all four Xindi species. They presented them with evidence and even that medical hologram of the sphere creator. They couldn't opose that.
They even showed them Xindi they found on Earth.
There was also that that thing that belonged to Xindi in the future that Daniels gave to Archer.
They had to admit Enterprise crew was right and later when they destroyed spheres and all - they knew they were right.
Archer did a great job to convince them that by destroying humans they are destroying themselves, too.
They couldn't get against that, not with all those evidence..

 

[JiNX-01]

...
-- The Lyssarians object to their larvae being used to make clones. Imagine how they'd react if they learned that Phlox created a clone in order to harvest his brain tissue (and he murdered him to get it).
....

Was their ever indication that Lyssarians are sentient?

T'Pol told Archer that the Lyssarians had a protocol prohibiting the use of desert larvae to create clones (presumably because their lives are severely shortened).

AMQ:

I agree with everything but especially Hoshi part... Actually all of them were almost killed, I mean they almost lost the home planet and the only one dealing with it is Archer and even he gets over it, they should've given them more time... And I never understood how they never mentioned their families, basically they came back home and still they hang out only with each other. Or Trip saying he has no one to go home to... Didn't he have parents and a brother I think(?) that were still alive

I was very ticked off that we didn't see Trip go home to his parents in either The Expanse or Home. It's ridiculous that I know more about Travis' family than I do about the Tuckers.

 

[AMQ]

I was very ticked off that we didn't see Trip go home to his parents in either The Expanse or Home. It's ridiculous that I know more about Travis' family than I do about the Tuckers.

Yes, I think we would meet Mayweather's grandmother before we would meet the Tuckers We only had a glimpse on Elizabeth... both of them