Xbox gone crazy. 9000 people sacked

[Owain Taggart]

It's better for all those who are fired to start up new studios and make new games.
Depending on those large Publishers isn't going to work.
The AAA model is too volatile and we need smaller companies to make Single-A & Double-A games.

That's one way of looking at it. Especially as AAA games have become more and more expensive and publishers become less and less risk averse. Smaller studios are able to take more of a chance, as long as they're given the support, unlike what happened with Daedelic and the Gollum game which they really had no business doing as they had no experience with doing such a game when they were mostly familiar with point and click adventures. They were sent to drown off the deep end.

But yeah, the cycle is usually smaller studios headed by industry veterans that they themselves end up getting gobbled by a larger company.

We'll see, but MS has been on "Cruise Control" for a while and the Xbox division is the one that has been the most badly beaten, but also one of the most important.

PC Gaming is the lynch pin that holds the DeskTop OS popularity for MS Windows in tact.
No matter how they feel about it, the VAST majority of PC gaming sits on MS' shoulders.
And that's why many people still buy Windows OS.
If they lose that, that can start a avalanche they can't stop.
Right now, there's A LOT of excess Snow Build Up that hasn't been cleared out.
If you know what I mean!

Maybe that's why they've contracted out ASUS and their ROG line for the XBox branded handheld. It sort of bridges the gap between something like a Steam Deck, and maybe it's a test market to see if it's viable for them. It's obvious the Steam deck really caught their attention.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That's one way of looking at it. Especially as AAA games have become more and more expensive and publishers become less and less risk averse. Smaller studios are able to take more of a chance, as long as they're given the support, unlike what happened with Daedelic and the Gollum game which they really had no business doing as they had no experience with doing such a game when they were mostly familiar with point and click adventures. They were sent to drown off the deep end.

I don't understand why they weren't making game types they were familiar with.
What was the point of that?
An exercise in "Setup for Failure"?

But yeah, the cycle is usually smaller studios headed by industry veterans that they themselves end up getting gobbled by a larger company.

Hopefully they grow from a small company to a medium company and be happy with what they built.

Maybe that's why they've contracted out ASUS and their ROG line for the XBox branded handheld.

That's more of their initiative to make a Xbox Launcher Interface for PC to standardize Gaming on PC.
I guess it's better "Late than Never" mentality from MS.

It sort of bridges the gap between something like a Steam Deck, and maybe it's a test market to see if it's viable for them. It's obvious the Steam deck really caught their attention.

I'm just surprised that they were this fast to respond, it only took them 3 years to respond which by MS standards is "relatively fast".

 

[Owain Taggart]

don't understand why they weren't making game types they were familiar with.
What was the point of that?
An exercise in "Setup for Failure"?

Yeah, tell me about it. I knew what they were familiar with, as they've put out some excellent games in the genres they were good at. From what I understand, their parent company needed someone to do a LOTR game, and because of their moderate success, they were given the game to do, with no context as to the kinds of games they had been doing. I feel bad for the studio because in the right genre they've often nailed it, but because they were given a genre they weren't comfortable with, they got lambasted when it got released through no fault of their own, then they got promptly canned.

That's like telling a point-and-click developer to go develop a GTA-like open world game. One can just imagine just how out of their depths they'd be.

Hopefully they grow from a small company to a medium company and be happy with what they built.

Yeah, same here. Though it seems to become more difficult just to survive without a lot of funding and support from a bigger company.

That's more of their initiative to make a Xbox Launcher Interface for PC to standardize Gaming on PC.
I guess it's better "Late than Never" mentality from MS.

Though it does make me wonder if maybe Steam can be installed onto it or if it's merely a cloud-based machine to access Gamepass. If it's the latter, then that that doesn't really fix anything.

I'm just surprised that they were this fast to respond, it only took them 3 years to respond which by MS standards is "relatively fast".

Yeah, me too. I've always found MS to be a little slow to join the trends, then they wonder why they're not catching on. I've also found them to give up a little too soon on things.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yeah, tell me about it. I knew what they were familiar with, as they've put out some excellent games in the genres they were good at. From what I understand, their parent company needed someone to do a LOTR game, and because of their moderate success, they were given the game to do, with no context as to the kinds of games they had been doing. I feel bad for the studio because in the right genre they've often nailed it, but because they were given a genre they weren't comfortable with, they got lambasted when it got released through no fault of their own, then they got promptly canned.

That's like telling a point-and-click developer to go develop a GTA-like open world game. One can just imagine just how out of their depths they'd be.

This is what happens when Publishers are run by people who've never developed games in their lives and only knows a spread sheet.

Yeah, same here. Though it seems to become more difficult just to survive without a lot of funding and support from a bigger company.

That's the entire Game Industry since near the beginning, the amount of funding it takes to get enough talent to make a game is always tremendous.

Building up a team that is good enough is always expensive.

Though it does make me wonder if maybe Steam can be installed onto it or if it's merely a cloud-based machine to access Gamepass. If it's the latter, then that that doesn't really fix anything.

These are basically Steam Deck competitors, not Cloud Access Machines like Sony's hand held unit.

Yeah, me too. I've always found MS to be a little slow to join the trends, then they wonder why they're not catching on. I've also found them to give up a little too soon on things.

That's what happens when you deal with one of the most massive companies on Earth.
The bosses have too simple expectations w/ immediate results.
They don't realize that it takes a long time to get things going.

 

[FPAlpha]

I think long term the XBox is done, it just doesn't make financially sense to constantly burn money racing behind the Playstation.

We are perhaps seeing the first signs of MS winding down the XBox division or possibly transforming it rather into a partnership with other companies to focus elsewhere in the gaming market like handheld consoles.

Maybe they will try a last hurrah with a new generation console but i don't have faith they will at least sell as well as the PS, they made too many mistakes and all the exclusives that drove sales like Halo are gone and not relevant anymore, so they have nothing special to offer over the Playstation.

 

[F. King Daniel]

AAA gaming is toast. Burnt toast.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

ASUS branded hardware is somewhat so so

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

ASUS branded hardware is somewhat so so

It's more "Hit or Miss" depending on which model you get.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It's more "Hit or Miss" depending on which model you get.

Indeed....... I never ended up getting the Rog Ally like I wanted. Instead got a TUF laptop which is going really well, my friend got the Rog Ally and it had problems within 6 months something to do with overheating regulators

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Indeed....... I never ended up getting the Rog Ally like I wanted. Instead got a TUF laptop which is going really well, my friend got the Rog Ally and it had problems within 6 months something to do with overheating regulators

The original RoG Ally also had SD Card melting issues.

Spoiler: ASUS ROG Ally - How to avoid burning out your SD cards

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[Gingerbread Demon]

The original RoG Ally also had SD Card melting issues.

Spoiler: ASUS ROG Ally - How to avoid burning out your SD cards

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Yikes..

Did Asus ever fix the issue?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yikes..

Did Asus ever fix the issue?

In their 2nd Gen.

If you bought their 1st Gen, you might be "Out of Luck".

 

[Rincewiend]

^^The PS3 bc is also more annoying because here in the EU/UK, we never even got the PS3 with PS2 bc, so we also got another "unlucky chumps" from Sony way back at the PS3 launch......Sony just seems to hate us over here for some reason. ha

Actually we did...
I had a launch PS3 and it was PS2 BC...

PlayStation 3 models - Wikiwand

The PlayStation 3 (PS3) video game console has been produced in various models during its life cycle. At launch, the PlayStation 3 was available with either a 2...

www.wikiwand.com

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I had a launch PS3 and it was PS2 BC...

So did I, but in the end:
- I'd rather just play the PS1 games on my PS1 & PS2 games on my PS2.

So it wasn't a real benefit for me.

 

[Owain Taggart]

This is what happens when Publishers are run by people who've never developed games in their lives and only knows a spread sheet.

Yeah, I pretty much expect that's exactly what happened. Seeing a succcessful developer in one genre and the higher-up going, "So, you're successful, you can do this, right? It's only one of the biggest franchises on earth. And we'd like to trust you with it".

That's the entire Game Industry since near the beginning, the amount of funding it takes to get enough talent to make a game is always tremendous.

Building up a team that is good enough is always expensive.

And thank goodness for the recent development in unions. I have no idea how the games industry has withheld for so long against unions.

These are basically Steam Deck competitors, not Cloud Access Machines like Sony's hand held unit.

Ok, that makes sense. And come to think of it, I think I heard there was a possibility they would try to block Steam installs. No idea of GOG either.

That's what happens when you deal with one of the most massive companies on Earth.
The bosses have too simple expectations w/ immediate results.
They don't realize that it takes a long time to get things going.

That's perhaps one of the most frustrating things about it. Wanting immediate results, and without wanting to put the time and effort behind it. We've seen this with Google Stadia and Netflix, both of which bought game studios, then canned them before letting things come to fruition. Well, what did they expect exactly?

And MS has repeated this, and each time, it lands them in this very situation where they have nothing to show for it. The best I can think of is the Indiana Jones game that came out recently, and maybe Avowed, and outside those two, nothing else comes to mind.

We are perhaps seeing the first signs of MS winding down the XBox division or possibly transforming it rather into a partnership with other companies to focus elsewhere in the gaming market like handheld consoles.

I don't know that they're winding down, so much that they've made bad decisions that have led them to lose faith in the hardware, but as I've said before, it's not so much the hardware that's at issue, but rather their development issues regarding the games and studio purchases, and even if tbey wind down their hardware, that won't fix the issues they have with the games themselves. You can't have a roster without putting work into it. And Gamepass (what they've been advertising with their 'everything is an XBox' campaign) is at most, a distraction to the real issue.

Maybe they will try a last hurrah with a new generation console but i don't have faith they will at least sell as well as the PS, they made too many mistakes and all the exclusives that drove sales like Halo are gone and not relevant anymore, so they have nothing special to offer over the Playstation.

It's still so weird for me to see games like Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon available on the Playstation. The whole Forza series was one of their most recognizable assets and seeing Turn 10 dumped, one of their core pillars, is abysmal.

I have a feeling those from Turn 10 will start up a new studio and go working for Sony making a new racing game exclusive. I've always thought that Sony should have an open-world Gran Turismo, although I see the irony given that this is Turn 10 rather than Playground.

 

[FPAlpha]

I don't know that they're winding down, so much that they've made bad decisions that have led them to lose faith in the hardware, but as I've said before, it's not so much the hardware that's at issue, but rather their development issues regarding the games and studio purchases, and even if tbey wind down their hardware, that won't fix the issues they have with the games themselves. You can't have a roster without putting work into it. And Gamepass (what they've been advertising with their 'everything is an XBox' campaign) is at most, a distraction to the real issue.




It's still so weird for me to see games like Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon available on the Playstation. The whole Forza series was one of their most recognizable assets and seeing Turn 10 dumped, one of their core pillars, is abysmal.

I have a feeling those from Turn 10 will start up a new studio and go working for Sony making a new racing game exclusive. I've always thought that Sony should have an open-world Gran Turismo, although I see the irony given that this is Turn 10 rather than Playground.

Their bad decisions resulted in less than desired sales, which in turn may made them lose faith in the hardware, a downward spiral if you will. I'm no expert in the console market, it's been a decade or so since i owned a PS4 and much longer since i had an XBox but i loosely follow the news and it just never seemed to truly work out for them.

Sure some games hit like a brick, i mentioned Halo already, but that is ancient news and what news actually breaks through to a casual like me seems to mostly come from Sony and their Playstation.

Once the exclusivity bullshit basically went away i don't think there's too many reasons to go for an XBox nowadays than a PS because a PS has a much broader range of games available, which is what is ultimately important to gamers.

So basically i am sure MS is seeing the writing on the wall, no profit ever from the sales of the hardware and a diminishing importance in the games themselves doesn't speak well for the brand. I think we will see where Microsoft stands around the time when Sony announces the PS6 and if there's crickets from the MS camp we will know what's up.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Their bad decisions resulted in less than desired sales, which in turn may made them lose faith in the hardware, a downward spiral if you will. I'm no expert in the console market, it's been a decade or so since i owned a PS4 and much longer since i had an XBox but i loosely follow the news and it just never seemed to truly work out for them.

Sure some games hit like a brick, i mentioned Halo already, but that is ancient news and what news actually breaks through to a casual like me seems to mostly come from Sony and their Playstation.

Once the exclusivity bullshit basically went away i don't think there's too many reasons to go for an XBox nowadays than a PS because a PS has a much broader range of games available, which is what is ultimately important to gamers.

So basically i am sure MS is seeing the writing on the wall, no profit ever from the sales of the hardware and a diminishing importance in the games themselves doesn't speak well for the brand. I think we will see where Microsoft stands around the time when Sony announces the PS6 and if there's crickets from the MS camp we will know what's up.

MS kept doubling-down on "All You Can Play" GamePass and they wonder why nobody is "Buying their games".

How developers aren't getting "Enough Money".

The VERY DUMB decisions by the higher ups is what started this.

And it was all because they wanted "Gaming Subscriptions" to be a thing.

The ONLY thing they can do to 'Save Face' is to "Cancel Game Pass".

Apologize to the Gaming Industry, and declare Subscription Based models as Un-Sustainable and bad for ALMOST ALL Industries!

 

[Haggis and tatties]

God help consumers if the console business follows the pc GPU business and we end up with just Sony being the only console hardware maker, because can you say £1000 ps6, or £1500 PS6 pro, £120 for a video games, £150 for a standard joypad, as history has shown us monopolies always end up the same, a never ending ceiling of costs to the consumers.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Maybe the Video Game industry needs a crash to sort itself out

 

[Owain Taggart]

Their bad decisions resulted in less than desired sales, which in turn may made them lose faith in the hardware, a downward spiral if you will. I'm no expert in the console market, it's been a decade or so since i owned a PS4 and much longer since i had an XBox but i loosely follow the news and it just never seemed to truly work out for them.

Man, it never having worked out for them is such an understatement. I guess you're right with the downward spiral. They keep making decisions that have ended up hamstringing themselves. I'm not going to count them out just yet, as they might surprise us during the next gen. But that might require a rethink on their part.

MS kept doubling-down on "All You Can Play" GamePass and they wonder why nobody is "Buying their games".

How developers aren't getting "Enough Money".

The VERY DUMB decisions by the higher ups is what started this.

And it was all because they wanted "Gaming Subscriptions" to be a thing.

The ONLY thing they can do to 'Save Face' is to "Cancel Game Pass".

Apologize to the Gaming Industry, and declare Subscription Based models as Un-Sustainable and bad for ALMOST ALL Industries!

Yes, this is defnitely a part of it. Their 'Everything is an XBox' campaign was not only confusing messaging, but seemed to double down on the mistakes that got them there in the first place. That's not how you build confidence and loyalty in a brand that has been spinning its wheels. I agree that a rethink of the gamepass model is needed, but I'm not sure they can even recognize it as being an issue, unless some changes happen from higher up.


And regarding Gamepass, I came across this doozy of an article, claiming that Gamepass may not be as profitable as they've been claiming as they haven't been including the cost in first-party titles.

In a thread spotted by ResetEra user Smitch, Dring adds his analysis of Xbox's Game Pass model and explains what he has been told about how it operates.


"So costs associated with the Game Pass business is fees paid to third-parties, marketing, service costs… and by that measure, it’s profitable," he writes. "What they don’t count is the lost revenue that Xbox’s first-party studios are seeing as a result of the service. I have to imagine if first-party studios received similar compensation, that profitability might not be correct."


Basically, this means that if you only count the cost of getting third-party games on the service, as well as marketing and actually keeping Game Pass operational, then it does make money. However, if you factor in how much money Xbox put down to make games like Starfield and Avowed - and how much money it may have lost in sales by having them on Game Pass from day one - then there's a chance that it does bleed money.

Turns Out Game Pass Might Not Be Profitable, As Xbox Apparently Doesn't Include Development Costs Of First-Party Games

Xbox might be bending the truth when it says that Game Pass makes more money than it loses.

www.thegamer.com

If this is true, then it could certainly account for the problems they've been having and why they've been bleeding so much money, and explains why this model doesn't work very well.