They've written over the original X-Men trilogy and the two Wolverine movies, it'd be nice think they've got a clean slate now. But as long they keep killing off some good villains like Sebastian Shaw and keep coming back to Magneto. Maybe once Wolverine is recast they can make the X-Men movies a more ensemble type of movie.
X-Men films: where do we go from here?
- Thread starter RoJoHen
- Start date
This was never explained on-screen in any way, shape or form.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Maybe they can use the comics explanation/retcon used to bring back Jean in the late 80s-that Phoenix wasn't the 'real' Jean, but a cosmic entity that took her form (although it thought it was Jean) with the Real Jean buried/recovering underwater from the solar radiation. Of course over the years that's become a bit more complicated with stuff like clones, alternate reality future sons and daughters, time-displaced Jeans, Grant Morrison's run and of course the Avengers vs. X-men events. The Cyclops/Jean Grey 'family tree' is probably one of the most complicated continuity messes in comics.
Of course though there's that whole thing in X3 about movie Phoenix being an alternate personality of Jean's, but I suppose they could just ignore that.
Of course though there's that whole thing in X3 about movie Phoenix being an alternate personality of Jean's, but I suppose they could just ignore that.
But consider that some of the events came about due to outside influences.
X3-- Worthington Industries still may have created the mutant cure, which may have caused Magneto to still attack Alcatraz. Without the events of X2 f'ing up Jean, the X-Men would have had a full complement to take down Magneto.
The Wolverine-- Logan's WW2 history is still intact, so therefore Yashida would still have sought out Logan when he was dying, thus intiiating the same chain of events. Logan may not have been a hermit in the Canadian wilderness, but otherwise...
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
The idea sounds similar to Grant Morrison's X-men run where Charles had an evil twin, except it was a woman.
I have actually heard the same thing. Maybe it was in the script, but not in the dialogue? I've also heard that the man in the bed is actually played by Stewart, but my own observations on that have been inconclusive. Anyone have a big screen and X3 on Blu-Ray?
I have actually heard the same thing. Maybe it was in the script, but not in the dialogue? I've also heard that the man in the bed is actually played by Stewart, but my own observations on that have been inconclusive. Anyone have a big screen and X3 on Blu-Ray?
Pretty sure it's explained in the commentary track. Not that it makes it OK, it's still pretty shoddy storytelling and one hell of a cop out.
Yeah, I was wondering where the fuck Anwar got that from.
I have actually heard the same thing. Maybe it was in the script, but not in the dialogue? I've also heard that the man in the bed is actually played by Stewart, but my own observations on that have been inconclusive. Anyone have a big screen and X3 on Blu-Ray?
Pretty sure it's explained in the commentary track. Not that it makes it OK, it's still pretty shoddy storytelling and one hell of a cop out.
But unlikely to be referred to again now the timeline's been reset and X3 didn't happen...
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Yeah, it's likely the Professor X seen at the end of the film is in his "original" body.
Have to wonder how the new timeline affected "Mckellan" Magneto and "Romjin" Mystique. We know all the X-men at the end are alive again; and McAvoy says something about 'we'll all be together" or something like that. But the fate of the "Brotherhood" is up in the air, especially since Mystique's sort of a better person now and not the killer she became in the old timeline.
Have to wonder how the new timeline affected "Mckellan" Magneto and "Romjin" Mystique. We know all the X-men at the end are alive again; and McAvoy says something about 'we'll all be together" or something like that. But the fate of the "Brotherhood" is up in the air, especially since Mystique's sort of a better person now and not the killer she became in the old timeline.
What? Personal preferences aside, this is nonsense. Guardians benefited from having a larger audience to draw from and having superior word of mouth than DOFP (which still had good WOM). The reason GOG crushed DOFP at the box office was because it was marketed to appeal to a larger general audience and it had much better legs. Xmen's appeal is mainly limited to younger males and superhero groupies. Guardians popularity extended to other groups.
Sorry, Guardians was winning the casual moviegoer (which you may not understand because you are NOT the casual moviegoer). Even if DOFP had won the fanboy crowd, eventually Guardians still trounces it over time. Both movies would have had lesser opening days if they had gone head to head but GOTG's broader appeal guaranteed a higher box office. DOFP only made 2/3rds of GOTG. If they open the same day maybe GOTG makes $20-30 million less and DOFP makes $15-20 million less. Its still the same relative dominance.
Revisionist history at its best. Wolverine did not perform to studio expectations and continued the revenue slide of the series. If DOFP had not performed so well this franchise could very well have slipped into obscurity. How do you not understand the drop in popularity the series had dropped off dramatically before DOFP? You act like Xmen was making money hand over fist on a consistent basis and MCU was hit and miss. The truth is the opposite. Though First Class was well received critically it did little to reverse the franchise trend at the box office. It hardly revived the series from a revenue or attendance standpoint.
You clearly do not follow the box office. Xmen was closer to becoming a second rate series like The Fantastic Four became or Spiderman was slipping towards than anything close to what MCU had become. Think of how abysmal the Star Trek theatric series had become before the reimagining and you will have a closer idea to where Xmen was heading than this laughable fantasy vision you maintain in your mind of the state of the XMen Movie Universe.
^ How did the Wolverine not met studio expectations? Before DOFP came out, The Wolverine was the 2nd highest grossing film behind X3.
The current ranking now is
DOFP: $750 million
X3: $455 million
The Wolverine: $415 million
X2: $408 million
XMO: $380 million
First Class: $354 million
X-Men: $296 million
Critics were only sour on two of the 7 films. X3 and XMO. The X-Men series is a success.
With how successful the X-Men films have been it's not a surprise that Fox has put Gambit, Deadpool and Apocalypse in to production and according to Jackman and Stewart a 3rd solo Wolverine movie too.
It's not MCU level of success but it's enough to keep X-Men out of Marvel/Disney's hands.
The current ranking now is
DOFP: $750 million
X3: $455 million
The Wolverine: $415 million
X2: $408 million
XMO: $380 million
First Class: $354 million
X-Men: $296 million
Critics were only sour on two of the 7 films. X3 and XMO. The X-Men series is a success.
With how successful the X-Men films have been it's not a surprise that Fox has put Gambit, Deadpool and Apocalypse in to production and according to Jackman and Stewart a 3rd solo Wolverine movie too.
It's not MCU level of success but it's enough to keep X-Men out of Marvel/Disney's hands.
When judging how a movie performs at the theater you have to adjust for inflation (ticket prices). A better indicator would be using tickets sold as one way of analyzing a particular film's popularity compared to previous iterations.
Even so. Lets look at Domestic grosses and then adjust to 2014 dollars per BOM and understand that such adjustment is just ballpark.
X-men 2 (XU): $215 million in 2003, $291 million adjusted.
X-men 3 (TLS): $234 million in 2006, $292 million adjusted.
Wolverine 1: $179 million in 2009, $197 million adjusted.
X-men 4 (FC): $146 million in 2011, $149 million adjusted.
Wolverine 2: $132 million in 2013, $138 million adjusted.
Its impossible to use international revenue to judge a series because the overseas markets have exploded only in the past 3-5 years. Take Iron Man for instance (the best of the series IMO). IM made $266 million overseas in 2008. Iron Man 3 ,which sold about 4 mil more tickets (44 mil to 48 mil), increased about 10% in patrons domestically yet its international box office increased 330% to $806 million. So in reality Wolverine was a major disappointment for a studio that was hoping to take advantage of a market that was greatly expanding. They specifically targeted Japan where it definitely underperformed expectations. Don't think that all foreign revenue is just extra gravy either. Marketing costs overseas are additional costs, the revenue percentages can vary in foreign markets, etc. The people at Fox did not share your excitement when Wolvie 2 which had been partially targeted to Asian audiences ended up 14th on the yearly list in foreign revenue and under performed in several Asian markets. It didn't FLOP mind you, it generated profit . . . just much less than was hoped for.
On another note, X-men 3 sold around 36 mil tickets while DOFP sold 28 mil tickets domestically. But compared to First Class (18 mil) this is still a hefty increase!
I didn't take budget into account but its also a key player. Wolverine 2 had about the same budget as X2 yet made only 2/3rds domestically. It made more overseas but . . . (again . . . a market that had become a completely different scale in the decade in between) . . . it also incurred a lot more marketing cost to promote it overseas.
I think the pattern is pretty obvious. Critical praise doesn't necessarily dictate box office success. The series was on a serious and steady decline until DOFP. NOW, Fox hopes the ship has been righted (and is banking on it) and will continue to maintain its recent growth overseas.
Last edited:
^ You can't not include international markets. The bean counters at these companies/studios judge success in total dollars made and not in adjusted gross for inflation. If they did then Star Trek TPM would still be the highest grossing Trek film. Even though STID made the most in total dollars.
The international market is something companies are vying for. Look at the other mega franchises, Transformers, Twilight, MCU films, The Hobbit trilogy etc. The foreign box office grosses are what are responsible for their success.
For example. Let's look at recent comic book films.
Thor TDW made $200 million domestically but $440 million internationally.
Captain America TWS made $251 million domestic and $455 million internationally.
GOTG did $333 million domestically and $441 million internationally.
MOS made $291 million domestically and $377 internationally.
Domestically GOTG is number 1 and MOS is number 2. With Capt coming in 3rd and Thor bringing up the rear. Including the international grosses though. GOTG is 1st, Capt 2nd, MOS 3rd and Thor 4th. That's what the executives see. Total dollars made by their products. The lessons for WB for their next film project is to market their film overseas more. MCU films have a foundation and a brand they can market. Just getting people out to the theaters domestically is their focus. I mean a Superman reboot (after it's predecessor failed to fly domestically and internationally) outdid Capt 2 and Thor 2 domestically. Capt and Tho who each had a solo outing and Avengers to add wind to their sales in terms of brand and name recognition. And with the way MOS divided audiences and critics, one would imagine Thor and Capt would rank higher domestically at least.
The international market is something companies are vying for. Look at the other mega franchises, Transformers, Twilight, MCU films, The Hobbit trilogy etc. The foreign box office grosses are what are responsible for their success.
For example. Let's look at recent comic book films.
Thor TDW made $200 million domestically but $440 million internationally.
Captain America TWS made $251 million domestic and $455 million internationally.
GOTG did $333 million domestically and $441 million internationally.
MOS made $291 million domestically and $377 internationally.
Domestically GOTG is number 1 and MOS is number 2. With Capt coming in 3rd and Thor bringing up the rear. Including the international grosses though. GOTG is 1st, Capt 2nd, MOS 3rd and Thor 4th. That's what the executives see. Total dollars made by their products. The lessons for WB for their next film project is to market their film overseas more. MCU films have a foundation and a brand they can market. Just getting people out to the theaters domestically is their focus. I mean a Superman reboot (after it's predecessor failed to fly domestically and internationally) outdid Capt 2 and Thor 2 domestically. Capt and Tho who each had a solo outing and Avengers to add wind to their sales in terms of brand and name recognition. And with the way MOS divided audiences and critics, one would imagine Thor and Capt would rank higher domestically at least.
There's a difference between "made a lot of money" and "met expectations". The Amazing Spider-Man 2 made a lot of money, but not as much as Sony wanted it to, therefore it is a failure for Sony. It's not just the total dollar amount, it's how the total dollar amount compares to the goal set by the studio.
TASM 2 was the lowest grossing Spider-Man film since the franchise started back in 2002.
Unadjusted gross ranking of the films is
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man
TASM
TASM 2
Amy Pascal told investors that TASM 2 would be a billion dollar gross. Of course that didn't happen and critics were split on the film. While I don't think TASM 2 is as bad as it's reputation, I do think the low gross has more to do with Sony choosing to adapt "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" more than anything else. We're talking about the same consumers who have consistently swallowed Bayformers and made every film (minus the first one) a billion dollar movie. So the story problems of TASM 2 aren't what audiences took umbridge with. Moreso that a popular female character was unceremoniously killed off. I can imagine parents not taking their children to see a film repeatedly because Spider-Man (a hero) failed to save his sweetheart.
Unadjusted gross ranking of the films is
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man
TASM
TASM 2
Amy Pascal told investors that TASM 2 would be a billion dollar gross. Of course that didn't happen and critics were split on the film. While I don't think TASM 2 is as bad as it's reputation, I do think the low gross has more to do with Sony choosing to adapt "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" more than anything else. We're talking about the same consumers who have consistently swallowed Bayformers and made every film (minus the first one) a billion dollar movie. So the story problems of TASM 2 aren't what audiences took umbridge with. Moreso that a popular female character was unceremoniously killed off. I can imagine parents not taking their children to see a film repeatedly because Spider-Man (a hero) failed to save his sweetheart.
Yes and no. Even if you don't take inflation into account (Which accountants and analysts do. Nobody is going to say American Sniper is a much bigger hit than the Empire Strikes back because it made $100 million more at the box office when released.) you need to remember that production budgets have been spiraling out of control over the past decade and marketing costs have gotten higher every year as theaters attempt to lure in as many patrons as possible. Especially overseas marketing. Marketing is usually included as a distribution cost and not included as part of the production budget though it can easily tack on another $60-100 million for large budget films (and the same amount added again for overseas marketing).
Well the 1st thing that has to happen (if you go past the point of where X1 should be) is how the timeline changed (as unless the director has a secret book somewhere no one really knows) because so much must not have happened:
Obviously Jean did not die if X2 did happen, though if it did not happen what has Magneto been up to since DOFP, likewise X1 and liberty island as if the events of X1 did happen X2 would have played out in much the same way, maybe just to the point of Jean not sacrificing herself.
Rogue ended up at the academy in X1 purely because Magneto was after her in X1 (see above but if magneto was "quiet" would she have still found herself there actually ditto Logan) but also means that the "cure" must not have been invented (or yet) as she is seen there at the end of DOFP.
It was like some sort of "fairytale" ending with no idea how they could get to that point.
Appologies if this is jumbled or not making any sense but time travel gives me a headache.
Obviously Jean did not die if X2 did happen, though if it did not happen what has Magneto been up to since DOFP, likewise X1 and liberty island as if the events of X1 did happen X2 would have played out in much the same way, maybe just to the point of Jean not sacrificing herself.
Rogue ended up at the academy in X1 purely because Magneto was after her in X1 (see above but if magneto was "quiet" would she have still found herself there actually ditto Logan) but also means that the "cure" must not have been invented (or yet) as she is seen there at the end of DOFP.
It was like some sort of "fairytale" ending with no idea how they could get to that point.
Appologies if this is jumbled or not making any sense but time travel gives me a headache.
Similar threads
