wwe vs tnt anyone watching?

[Admiral_Young]

I've got a question for everyone...was discussing the possible return of the nWo with two of my friends last night/this morning. They're both against returning the stable. My one friend thinks I'm reaching despite all the evidence that the WWE has stated and the dirt sheets speculating and the article on WWE.com. The use of Nash he says is to help elevate Punk, and the Awesome Truth. I couldn't disagree with him more. Nash isn't being used to elevate those three. They don't need elevation. They're superstars in their own right. Also they've used Nash extremely sporadically because of his film shoot. I guess my question is...have I been reaching? I am being too much of a mark? I conceded that we could very well see something new but I don't think so. There have been too many clues.

 

[timothy]

whenever kevin nash is involved it's never anything new. so what was everyone's favorite match last night and which was there worse match?

favorite the big show vs mark henry/ zack ryder vs dolph ziggler
worse match I soppose the diva match

 

[Mr Silver]

I've got a question for everyone...was discussing the possible return of the nWo with two of my friends last night/this morning. They're both against returning the stable.

I am as well, but only because it just won't be able to reach the height of the original and by naming any stable "nWo" - it's putting a ridiculously high expectation upon it. Every incarnation following the original 1996-1998 incarnation has bombed because the names that made the storyline a success have not been present.

My one friend thinks I'm reaching despite all the evidence that the WWE has stated and the dirt sheets speculating and the article on WWE.com.

There is definitely some teasing going on, but I think it's designed as a way to get long time fans into the mindset of where they are going with the "conspiracy" angle - namely a new ultra heel stable.

The use of Nash he says is to help elevate Punk, and the Awesome Truth. I couldn't disagree with him more. Nash isn't being used to elevate those three. They don't need elevation. They're superstars in their own right.
Also they've used Nash extremely sporadically because of his film shoot.

Whilst Nash is there to act as a veteran in order to help get the current superstars over, he's not being used solely in that position as evidenced by last night's angle with Triple H.

I guess my question is...have I been reaching? I am being too much of a mark? I conceded that we could very well see something new but I don't think so. There have been too many clues.

I wouldn't say reaching, as a long term fan you hope to see something that was incredibly popular in the past, return to the modern product. That's not too much to expect at all, given that WWE spent the 2009-2011 period destroying the product they had cemented in order to tone it down and attract business from family friendly organisations.

Now that PG has peaked, WWE is bringing back it's "edge" and despite the PG environment, they can still put together popular, exciting and unpredictable storylines akin to the one's they've done so well in the past.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I should clarify that both my friends stated their commentary without having watched or knowing what happened at Vengeance. The only reason that I am marking out about a possible return of the nWo as I've stated before is because for me personally it would be a satisfactory pay off in what was once a perfectly executed arc solely involving CM Punk now has spiralled out of control and seemingly involving everyone. It has made no logical sense. I still feel like they have dropped the ball with Punk and it is obviously at least to me they've lost a lot of momentum that they had in the summer time when this all began in June or July. So for me personally getting the new world order is at least something. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

 

[Mr Silver]

CM Punk will be absolutely fine, he's signed a multi-year contract that includes perks such as first-class travel and a bus (a'la Randy Orton). He's also got the ear of Vince McMahon and Triple H and it's been reported that he and Vince sit backstage and bounce ideas of each other. Following Survivor Series, he's going straight into a program with Alberto Del Rio over the WWE Championship. It has also been reported that Punk's merchandise sales are surpassing Cena's. Unless you are John Cena, you've got to take losses from time to time. Look at Triple H, he spent most of late 2009 and early 2010 jobbing out to the likes of Legacy, Sheamus and Randy Orton.

I worry more about The Miz and R-Truth. Their backstage segment last night was just terrible and really juvenile. I think they both need to adopt a harder edge that reflects their actions in interfering in matches and attacking other superstars at random. R-Truth's insane gimmick has been one of the best gimmicks of the year and his instability as a conspiracy theorist needs to be further emphasised. I like how they are both portrayed as equals and that neither is the "Jannetty" of the team. Asides from the crappy promos - they really do remind me of The Outsiders.

I still think that John Cena is likely to retire before he is 40 - probably to try his hand at acting and maybe have a go at music. Cena has the distinction of getting over very quickly and being at the top for longer than anyone in recent memory. He doesn't need to continue wrestling until his old age and I think that he'll want to try his hand at other things whilst he's still relatively young. It should also be noted that John Cena has a personal wealth well into $20 million.

 

[Admiral_Young]

How creative has been handling Miz has concerned me since he dropped the belt to Cena after Wrestlemania. I still don't know why that was done. Punk will be fine in the long run but they've dropped the ball concerning the momentum he brought in for them. They had the hottest angle in years with him and messed it up. I'm guessing by overwriting. Punk was champion for less than a month? That being said Del Rio has been a fine heel champion. He really does remind me of a better and more refined heel Rick Martel.

 

[Mr Silver]

The reason that The Miz lost the WWE Championship early was because John Cena cannot lose more than a couple of matches to any heel, otherwise his gimmick will be contradicted and the younger WWE fans will start to lose faith in their wrestling idol. A character like Cena's is there to demonstrate to the younger generation that good should always prevail - regardless of the odds.

Sure, Cena can lose clean on multiple occasions to other faces but his character works best when he's against a heel. If a World Title is involved in the feud, Cena will have to win it as soon as possible. Cena's character is also the reason that he doesn't tap out and will always win "I-Quit" matches. Until WWE have an equally popular character that provides a moral grounding for the younger fans, Cena will remain a face.

ETA: It should also be added that unless The Rock decides to abandon his movie career for at least a year and return to the WWE, Cena will win their match at Wrestlemania. I would wager that Cena never wanted to portray the character that he does and his interests are rooted in pretty non family friendly things like freestyle rap. Initially, Cena's character was about being a controversial figure and bringing an outsider gimmick into professional wrestling. Ultimately, WWE decided that there was a lot of potential to have Cena appeal to the female and younger audiences and Cena adapted to the role. As far as anyone can tell - he enjoys what he does and doesn't mind the negative reactions because it shows that he's doing his job well. I've not heard Cena speak out about the criticism he receives regarding his wrestling ability, but it stands to reason that he doesn't care too much because he's the most over performer in the business.

 

[Admiral_Young]

So another thing we can blame Super Cena for!! I'm just kidding of course...but yeah he is meant to be the ultimate face. I found it interesting that the Mexico crowd seemed to be more over and less divided towards him than in North America. I also found it amusing all the ladies went ape shit over Randy Orton but that is nothing new lol.

 

[Mr Silver]

Did you know that Cody Rhodes' initial "Dashing" gimmick was inspired by the real life behaviour of Randy Orton? Particulary the grooming tips stuff which Orton is known for being really into.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I missed the end of Raw! On my way home and couldn't watch the last segment. I watched the Awesome Truth's promo and didn't see the ending. The beginning of the show was interesting. Okay I guess I just missed Cena choosing the Rock as his partner for Survivor Series. Maybe they won't be doing the traditional elimination team stuff this year...

 

[Satyrquaze]

I was annoyed that they over-advertized the Rock being in back in action at Survivor Series during every commercial break... yet, when Cena had to choose a partner he waffled a bit to build up the drama, and then finally threw out an offer to the Rock to team up.

It seemed a bit insincere from a 'it's still real to me, dammit!' standpoint. Did Cena miss all those commercials? Had he not been informed that Dwayne had already agreed to work the PPV?

Basically it comes down to if wrestling is real and John Cena is as forthright as he claims he is... is he completely ignorant about everything else going on within the company?

Meh, maybe the average Cena fan wouldn't have caught that...

 

[timothy]

well I am glad that there giving zack ryder a lot of air time I like 'em as a face.
all so looking forward to the building fued between alberto del rio and cm punk.
over all RAW was okay not great.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I've got a question for everyone...was discussing the possible return of the nWo with two of my friends last night/this morning. They're both against returning the stable. My one friend thinks I'm reaching despite all the evidence that the WWE has stated and the dirt sheets speculating and the article on WWE.com. The use of Nash he says is to help elevate Punk, and the Awesome Truth. I couldn't disagree with him more. Nash isn't being used to elevate those three. They don't need elevation. They're superstars in their own right. Also they've used Nash extremely sporadically because of his film shoot. I guess my question is...have I been reaching? I am being too much of a mark? I conceded that we could very well see something new but I don't think so. There have been too many clues.

No, I don't think you're being too much of a mark. I don't think it's the kind of thing that's going to elevate anybody, but do I think it has potential (if it that indeed was the direction creative took) to be a fun bit of business? Sure.

What can Cena say to that criticism? I certainly don't think he's on the wrestling level of Punk or someone like that, but I have believed for a long time that he's better than he gets credit for from some people, and I also think his style, while limited, lends itself well to a lot of other styles. Cena isn't spectacular at any one particular approach, but he's fine at a bunch of them, and that allows him to work what I feel tend to be pretty solid matches with a wide range of performers.

That's just me though.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Rock and Cena team up is being promoted on the Survivor Series posters as Never Before and Never Again. I am assuming that the end of the tag match against The Awesome Truth will result in something happening that "re" ignites their feud and sets the stage for Wrestlemania 28.

Loree Bischoff has written a 110 page book called "Common Sense Happiness" for which Hulk Hogan provided a forward. Interesting. That must've been an interesting conversation.

"Hey Terry, Loree has written a book. She wants to know if you'd write a forward for it?"

"Sure brother. What's it called?"

"Common Sense Happiness."

"That sounds cool. I'll send something over Eric."

"Thanks Terry."

I actually wouldn't mind Bischoff writing another book. His first book was quite informative. He has been through quite a bit since then obviously.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I wouldn't mind either. The first one was actually pretty interesting. I certainly didn't agree with all of it, but he's a bright guy, not quite the monster people make him out to be, and I'd love to hear/read some more.

 

[Mr Silver]

Loree Bischoff has written a 110 page book called "Common Sense Happiness" for which Hulk Hogan provided a forward. Interesting. That must've been an interesting conversation.

"Hey Terry, Loree has written a book. She wants to know if you'd write a forward for it?"

"Sure brother. What's it called?"

"Common Sense Happiness."

"That sounds cool. I'll send something over Eric."

"Thanks Terry."

That's probably pretty close to how the conversation actually went down.

I really enjoyed Eric Bischoff's first book also, it was gave a real insight into his success as a businessman and the approach he took when he found himself in professional wrestling.

***

I've been thinking about the awful range of finishing moves currently being performed in WWE. I know that many of them are designed to minimise risk to the recipient and that's perfectly acceptable - but there are many other moves floating around out there that look spectacular and carry the same low risk. Here's a selection of moves in WWE that are just plain unacceptable as finishers...

Wade Barrett's "Wasteland" - which is nothing more than a common transition move used frequently in Lucha Libre as a transition for moves like the moonsault.

Dolph Ziggler's "Zig Zag" - which looks like a botched jumping neckbreaker.

John Cena's "Attitude Adjustment" - a move that was initially a death valley driver and has slowly turned into nothing more than a fireman's carry bodyslam.

Zack Ryder's "Rough Ryder" - a running leg lariat that is more suited to the "3 or 5 moves of doom" sequence than as a finisher.

Husky Harris' "Running Senton" - exactly what it says on the tin, looks ridiculous.

R-Truth's "Shut Up" - something which has been done to death as a finisher and has become the new overdrive.

Heath Slater's "E-Minor" - it's a reverse DDT! Only Sting can make such a move work as a finisher these days.

It's pretty shameful that WWE chooses (yup, you get issued a finishing move or have to clear what you want to use with management in the company) unspectacular finishing moves for it's talent.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah there aren't very many innovative finishing moves these days. I suppose this is why some of the wrestlers like Jericho and Angle have been bitching about others "stealing" their moves. Of course we should include Big Show, Kane, and Undertaker all using the chokeslam as a finisher. Both of the Rock's finishers are simple finishers as well. An over dramatized elbow to the sternum (which is kind of the point of it) and basically a modified chokeslam using his entire arm around the neck area (The Rock Bottom).

 

[Mr Silver]

Well from around late 2001, The Rock phased out using "the people's elbow" as a finishing move and it became more of a link in the three moves of doom (spinebuster > people's elbow > rock bottom). The ock ottom itself is nothing more than a diving urinage, although it takes a considerable amount of athleticism from both performers in order to make it work. The recipient has to jump and grab onto The Rock whilst he dives, which requires a considerable amount of strength.

The Stone Cold stunner is pretty demanding for the recipient too. Some like The Rock oversell it (and this works!) by executing a flip or flailing around the ring. The most common way to take the move is to use the knees to bounce up, mimicking rebound impact on the jaw. The most awesome sell of the move I've seen was from Scott Hall at Wrestlemania 19 where he took one stunner and stayed upright followed by a second where he squat jumped backwards. It looked incredible!

 

[Jetfire]

I like R-Truth's finisher.

My favorite finisher was the one Wrath(WCW) used...the Meltdown.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kJwypve9YY[/yt]

Meltdown(Pumphandle Slam)

Wade Barrett doing it but just isn't as cool.

[edit] CM Punk needs a finisher he can actually hit...he never hits the GTS it seems.

 

[Mr Silver]

Ahh the pumphandle slam, it's a very underrated move and requires a hell of a lot of strength to execute. The late Andrew "Test" Martin used it as a finisher and then a signature move and of course, Wrath who made it famous as "the meltdown". Wade Barrett's version is ok, although that's actually known as a pumphandle drop which was made famous by Brian "Road Dogg/BG James" Armstrong.

There are several variations of the pumphandle hold which look pretty awesome. Several wrestlers have used a sidewalk version of the move which is usually followed by a cover. Some wrestlers use a fallaway slam variation and others even turn the pumphandle into a backbreaker.

Not many use the pumphandle as a submission or wear down hold these days. It seems to have fallen out of favour for the similar - but more popular - abdominal stretch.