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Writers Untie...er, Unite!

PSGarak

Commodore
Commodore
I'm still new enough to have the shiny on the wrapper, so if this sort of thread doesn't belong here, I apologize, but I didn't know where else to start it. I've been enjoying the fanfic I've hit in this forum so far, and I thought it would be nice to have a thread to discuss how we write. How do you come up with an idea? What's your source of inspiration? How long does it typically take for you to go from concept to execution? Things along that line.

I also thought that perhaps specific questions or challenges could be addressed here, not the contest challenges, but writing challenges, such as writer's block, passive vs. active voice, how to deal with word limits, etc. So, anybody up for some writing talk? And if this is the wrong place to put this sort of thread, any suggestions on the right place to start it?

I'll go first on the subject of word limits, since that often can be a challenge, particularly if you have more concept than you have room to depict. My solution is usually first just to write. Get the whole thing out there so I can look at it and start trying to organize. If I'm way over the word limit, I start looking for sections that aren't vital to the story I want to tell.

They may be appealing, and they may have merit, but long descriptions or excess characters can really kill you if you need to stick to a limit. I'm ruthless at this point, going sentence by sentence. If it doesn't serve the narrative whole, it's gone.

After the initial pruning process, if I'm still over the count, I examine phrasing. Is there a more succinct way to say what I want to say? Have I over-used any particular words or phrasing? Is there anywhere I'm repetitive or redundant? At this point, descriptions will also still be the first to go. Large blocks of description can run a narrative down to a screeching halt.

If the above solutions still don't cut it, it may be time to rethink the concept or to narrow the time frame of what is being depicted. Think of the word limit as your friend, because it forces you to be a lean, mean writing machine. Any other takers? :)
 
I haven't participated in anything with a word limit yet. I am a fan of editing down, though. Less can often be more.

I'll share how I came up with the idea for my (so far only) story and developed it. My inspiration was a single picture done by Rabbittooth and posted in the Photoshop thread, showing Icheb from Voyager in an updated Starfleet uniform, sitting in a command chair on the bridge of a starship with a really intense expression on his face. The way it was edited made him look considerably older than he did on the show, and it just sort of captured my imagination. I started wondering what he would have been like as an officer -- I mean, anybody who watched Voyager knew he wanted to go to the Academy, where he obviously would have been a star student. But I also started thinking about his childhood and how deeply messed up he probably was under all the ambitious Borg-child perfection.

I mean, can you imagine? You're engineered before birth as a biological weapon, then raised for a few years by seemingly loving parents who suddenly feed you to the Borg. Your cube is destroyed, but you survive with a few other kids, only to learn that the Borg don't want you, either (and we won't even talk about all the people you and your little mini-collective end up butchering during assimilation attempts gone horribly wrong). Then Janeway decides to make you her project (or, more accurately, Seven's project), so you get to undergo massive surgery to remove all your Borg implants and are subjected to Seven of Nine as your guardian. You live in a cargo bay full of boxes of spare junk. After a while, they find your good old mom and dad and return you pretty much against your will, where you're allowed to have an afternoon with your old friends before Mom and Dad hold you down, tranquilize you and try to feed you to the Borg again. Luckily, your little adopted sister back on Voyager has a big mouth and an encyclopedic Borg memory, so your parents are exposed as the liars they are and you get saved, only now you feel guilty for not fulfilling your parentally-approved "destiny" to kill more Borg.

Now, Seven is your fake mom again. And you kind of think she's hot, quoting Oedipus to her because you're just that messed up. When Jocasta, oops, I mean Seven, almost dies due to a cortical node malfunction, you rashly risk your life to give her yours and undergo more gene resequencing, enduring tremendous pain. No one ever really mentions it again. Your only friend is an omnipotent punk who calls you Itchy, kidnaps you and gets you killed. Thankfully, his equally omnipotent dad saves you right before you actually die, but not before promising loudly not to help you, as if your life is meaningless as anything other than a lesson for his jerk son.

So it pretty much sucked to be Icheb. Obviously, I think there was way more to the character than we ever got to see on the show. There were hints here and there - Icheb showed a fiery temper at times and some of the things he said were really disturbing when looked at a certain way (quoting Oedipus to Seven, the whole "Perhaps it was my destiny" thing). By giving this entire fictional situation much more thought than any rational person probably should, I eventually came up with a whole post-Endgame backstory for the character after he arrived in the Alpha Quadrant, trying to parse out what I think the natural conclusions of some of the loose ends of his character were. Then I started writing Tesseract. As far as how to keep the writing going, I'm always writing in my head and I have a good memory, so when I have time, I write it down. I try to listen to music that fits the theme of the story to keep my mind in the right place.

Right now I'm working through a tough transition. I've written three versions of the next chapter (I have the next three after that done, it's just the next one that's giving me trouble) and I'm not completely happy with any of them. If I can't work this out by tomorrow, I may PM someone for a fresh perspective -- I did that the last time I was stuck and got some wonderful perspective from Gibraltar. Sometimes you just get too close to something you've written and it's hard to evaluate objectively anymore.
 
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I wish I just had the time to finish some of the fic I've got going on...both fan fic and several short stories.

Time is the writer's worst enemy (hmmm...that gives me yet another idea for a story I won't finish :lol:)
 
There are some really great writers on this site who should be writing professionally. I am not one of them, I freely admit. You read their material and you feel as if you are in the story, or reading a big time book. They really amaze me, they really do.

I like writing seralized stories that just keep going. Usually I have no idea where its going, but do in a general way.

Writers block is definately a problem. Two fight this I try to have two stories going at the same time. My current stories, Phase Two the Voyage Home and Phase Two Sector 001 have two different cast of characters going on, so if i tire of one, i can spend time on the other...

I have my favorite writers on this site. I read their stuff all the time to see how they do things. I will not meniton them here, because if I leave one or two off they might wonder why...so..lets just say..the ones who really put in the detail,and set the scenes, are my favorites. TREKBBS, and AD ASTRA I should mention, are two great websites. I have been to other TREKFANS FIC sights, but these two are the best IMO..

Rob
 
I'll give some of my inspirations for my would-be magnum opus, The Ancient Destroyer Cycle :

1 - How do you restore the 10-year old's sense of wonder watching those old monster movies? (King Ghidorah)

2 - What If The UFP in the 23rd Century found itself in the same position the USA did after Oklahoma City? The hardcore haters never went away, and a lot more of them are running things than was cared to think (The Order Of The Ancient Destroyer)

3 - What happens when the child must be more responsible than the parent? (Peter Kirk vs. Sam+Aurelan)

4 - In the ST2 novelization, Saavik told David that, if Spock were her father, i.e., one of the captive Vulcans used by the Romulans on Hellguard, it would be a source of great shame to him. What if this were the truth, and his captivity enervated him?

5 - What happens when two seeming Mary Sue characters must save the universe, but are messed up? Not quite Shinji/Asuka messed, and with positive role models, but still needing to get it together? (PeterK/Saavik)

6 - What If The Admiralty were really as crazy as they always seemed?

The hard part is, and I am trying this on the re-edit, is separating out What If's with potential from 'neat ideas' that go nowhere.
 
Great start to the thread, and it seems like we've hit a lot of familiar themes that most writers wrestle with at some time or another with their work.

1.) Too close to the material. That's a huge one, particularly if you spend a lot of time thinking about and taking notes for the story. I like the idea of taking a step back and talking to another writer whose work you admire, or a close friend who knows how you think and can give you an outside perspective. Some really good collaborations can come from such conversations, too. Collaborative writing is a lot of fun, but it also takes a lot of trust.

2.) Not enough time to write. It can boil down to genuinely being too busy or not having a disciplined schedule, but yeah, I can relate to that one.

3.) Writer's block. Just the term sends chills down my spine. Frustrating condition, to say the least. I'm not good at working on more than one project at a time, but I may just try it the next time it happens to me. Anything to shake things up a little.

I also like the idea of taking what if's and running with them for inspiration, and of focusing on a character that just really speaks to you and deciding to get into his or her head. Unfortunately, I think there are probably more neat ideas that go nowhere than really sound story concepts for the average writer, but those neat ideas sometimes sit and percolate at the back of the brain for a while, later to explode into something you never expected.

Kes7, you've managed to make a plot line/character from VOY sound very interesting to me. I'm looking forward to when that's ready to read, and I'm enjoying seeing what goes into the creative process around here overall. Anybody managed to conquer any really bad habits? Procrastination used to be a big one for me.
 
PSGarak, the first eight or nine chapters of the story are already up if you want to get started reading it. The story is called "Star Trek: Tesseract" and I think it's still on page one.

I, too, really like the idea of the "what if" method Gojirob is using. I might try that for a different story.

My worst habit is too much thinking, not enough writing. But since I write for a living (not fiction), I've had to learn that getting something -- ANYTHING -- down in print is step one. It can be horrible, it's just a draft. Just put the ideas down as they come to you, no matter how ridiculous they seem. As you edit and expand, you'll see what works and what doesn't. But actually writing something down is the key to breaking writer's block.
 
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Thanks, guys. Here's another thought : If you are doing a series, at some point you will lose that easy accessibility for new readers. You have to avoid one of my major mistakes, particularly in earlier ADU stories, of reffing your own stuff so much that you lose the reader. I take pains now to make other stories in the cycle not so much stand-alone, but so that reading the other stories is an option, not a requirement, though enjoyment will be enhanced by doing so. Its a fine line, and all too easy to stray from. If you are somehow writing about year 30, and readers are reading it, then these are your readers, no longer entry-level. If years 28 and 29 contain those entry-level stories with enough background about an established character to skip over the stuff every fan knows (you don't need to be hardcore Voy to know that Naomi/Icheb is an alt-future possibility) then you're good. So you both must try never to make your stories so dense within their series that they scare the reader off, but nor can you always write stories that people can just walk into. Your best hope, and this is one I've used with my M*A*S*H* stories, is to have a guide directing a new reader where to start.

Also, you have to accept misinterpretation of your intent as a fact of life. I had people slamming on a 'MASH meets Hanna-Barbera characters' piece w/o getting that it was a parody! I write some weird stuff, but if you see Sidney Freedman analyzing Yogi and Ranger Smith, I think the word 'parody' might come to the mind of most. But apparently not.
 
Thanks, guys. Here's another thought : If you are doing a series, at some point you will lose that easy accessibility for new readers. You have to avoid one of my major mistakes, particularly in earlier ADU stories, of reffing your own stuff so much that you lose the reader. I take pains now to make other stories in the cycle not so much stand-alone, but so that reading the other stories is an option, not a requirement, though enjoyment will be enhanced by doing so. Its a fine line, and all too easy to stray from. If you are somehow writing about year 30, and readers are reading it, then these are your readers, no longer entry-level. If years 28 and 29 contain those entry-level stories with enough background about an established character to skip over the stuff every fan knows (you don't need to be hardcore Voy to know that Naomi/Icheb is an alt-future possibility) then you're good. So you both must try never to make your stories so dense within their series that they scare the reader off, but nor can you always write stories that people can just walk into. Your best hope, and this is one I've used with my M*A*S*H* stories, is to have a guide directing a new reader where to start.

Also, you have to accept misinterpretation of your intent as a fact of life. I had people slamming on a 'MASH meets Hanna-Barbera characters' piece w/o getting that it was a parody! I write some weird stuff, but if you see Sidney Freedman analyzing Yogi and Ranger Smith, I think the word 'parody' might come to the mind of most. But apparently not.

I actually got an interesting letter from an interesting 'third party' to stop my STAR TREK INSIDE OUT story. To suffice, I am going to honor their wishes. If you do parody, just becareful. There are some interesting eyes that are all seeing..all knowing.

I love your GODZILLA stuff!! Just today we got the SMOG MONSTER figure at toy-r-us.

Rob
 
I actually got an interesting letter from an interesting 'third party' to stop my STAR TREK INSIDE OUT story. To suffice, I am going to honor their wishes. If you do parody, just becareful. There are some interesting eyes that are all seeing..all knowing.

Rob

:eek:
 
When doing something I don't think about it too much. I doubt many will read it, I get surprised when someone does, so it's there for my amusement... or to let something get out my head that's been in there for months.

I hadn't written or sold any fiction for a number of years before deciding to do it again for my own amusement... I don't think I'm good enough, or even as good as I used to be - but now I've been talked into putting it on my site I'm a lot more conscious of what people think of certain elements and feel the need to add notes explaining how certain things came to be etc.

Ideas for what I'm uploading now (which is a ridiculous length) came from various places. A conversation with a charity worker gave me a lot of ideas and she never even knew it, theres a lot of my personal life in there, characters based on people I've grown up with... some idea's shamelessly stolen... but overall I just decided to write about my Trek frustrations... let flaws in their world tear it apart and still find a source of hope in there.

My problem is trying to avoid sounding repetitive, trying to remember everything and thinking too much - I have excessive notes detailing the structure of the world I'm writing so that I can jump back to them if I need to change something. It's all very frustrating on my girlfriend and she should be commended for not locking me out.
 
For me, I truly believe it's the foreign perspective that frees me to write fanfic. I have kind of a strange "relationship" with the Trekiverse: it really fires my imagination, but I simply cannot see it as the idyllic paradise that some people do, and I simply can't shoehorn myself into some of the philosophies that some insist have to come with being a fan. I understand that sometimes you have to write characters and actions that you disagree with...but it is my strong belief that if, when you step back and look at your work as a whole, you cannot agree in the end with the aims you had when writing, and the overall message, then you are in a way betraying yourself.

Writing the Trekiverse as an alien allows me to say and do things I never could if I wrote from a fully Starfleet perspective. This allows people to feel they are at liberty to disagree, but if they do, they can simply write it off as being an alien view, not something they "have to" accept. Of course, I recognize that the Cardassians are also far from perfect. But at least the ones I have written are capable of seeing that.

Writing an AU is similar...it gives me a chance to "fix" things that went wrong in the canon universe, for instance. In my case, I would say the biggest one is redeeming Dukat...or more accurately, having a version of him that never fell in the first place. I love the what-if exercise, to see what he would have been like without getting so screwed up like the canon one did.

The irony, however, is that AU Dukat would have more of an excuse to be screwed up, given all that's happened to him, and yet although he does have certain symptoms from his experiences, AND he also has to face his mental illness in a much more direct manner than the canon Dukat (I have written both Dukats as bipolar) due to conditions on his world, he is fundamentally a much stronger and better person than the canon Dukat.

My biggest challenge is...time, and laziness. I do have a full-time job, but when I DO get time to write, it's very easy to get sidetracked and not do any productive writing in that time.
 
I find one of two things trip me up-either I know exactly where I'm going before I start and I get bored and don't feel like finishing or I don't have a clue and write myself into a corner. I do best with an idea and a vague sense of the ending. Like, I want to start here and I think I'm goiing there-but the middle is the mystery.
 
I find one of two things trip me up-either I know exactly where I'm going before I start and I get bored and don't feel like finishing or I don't have a clue and write myself into a corner. I do best with an idea and a vague sense of the ending. Like, I want to start here and I think I'm goiing there-but the middle is the mystery.

I agree with this, in my limited experience, so far. I've got a beginning and an end in mind, plus a few waypoints -- this seems to be pretty motivating, like following a map, but without crushing the creative, fun feeling of writing.
 
Road maps are a good thing, provided you have the motivation to actually get where you're going. ;) At present, my Gibraltar series has three stories in varying degrees of completion. Two are crossovers with characters from other series, and the one presently on hiatus is a stand-alone series tale that I hit the writer's block wall on about 6 months ago. :(
 
Road maps are a good thing, provided you have the motivation to actually get where you're going. ;) At present, my Gibraltar series has three stories in varying degrees of completion. Two are crossovers with characters from other series, and the one presently on hiatus is a stand-alone series tale that I hit the writer's block wall on about 6 months ago. :(

agreed...My RMS ENTERPRISE hit that wall back in march, I think. I am in the final stages of finishing that one off very soon. I had a road map for that one all along; just getting it done has been taxing; BUT IT WILL BE DONE!!! I will not stop!!

Rob
 
...but I simply cannot see it as the idyllic paradise that some people do, and I simply can't shoehorn myself into some of the philosophies that some insist have to come with being a fan.

I understand that totally. A lot of whta I've written recently is about peopel fed up with the bullshit of the Federation.

I tend to create my own corner of the universe to do such a thing though... I'm not one for writing, or re-writing someone elses character.

I find one of two things trip me up-either I know exactly where I'm going before I start and I get bored and don't feel like finishing or I don't have a clue and write myself into a corner. I do best with an idea and a vague sense of the ending. Like, I want to start here and I think I'm goiing there-but the middle is the mystery.

I have that too.. though I also have a weird thing with characters. When I flesh one out I tend to pre-plan the end of their story, whether it be a happy ending or death etc.
 
...but I simply cannot see it as the idyllic paradise that some people do, and I simply can't shoehorn myself into some of the philosophies that some insist have to come with being a fan.

I understand that totally. A lot of whta I've written recently is about peopel fed up with the bullshit of the Federation.

I tend to create my own corner of the universe to do such a thing though... I'm not one for writing, or re-writing someone elses character.

Interesting...sounds like your characters and mine might be likely to get along! (That is, as long as yours don't have a mad-on against Cardassians. ;) )
 
I find one of two things trip me up-either I know exactly where I'm going before I start and I get bored and don't feel like finishing or I don't have a clue and write myself into a corner. I do best with an idea and a vague sense of the ending. Like, I want to start here and I think I'm goiing there-but the middle is the mystery.

I agree with this, in my limited experience, so far. I've got a beginning and an end in mind, plus a few waypoints -- this seems to be pretty motivating, like following a map, but without crushing the creative, fun feeling of writing.

I too, always seem to have a great beginning idea, and I know my conclusion, but get bogged down in the middle, whether it be my fan fic or my short stories. Some 'middles' go better than others and practically write themselves! Others are like pulling teeth :lol:
 
Oh, NG, everyone loves Cardassians! :) True, they've got a bad rap the past few decades with all the fighting and occupations and the like, but every species goes through their own troubled times.

Lar'ragos especially loves Cardassians, with a little yamok sauce, of course! :lol:
 
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