Wrath of Kahn vs first contact:which is better?
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B.S.
All Picard did in that spacewalk was walking down to the deflect dish, input some commands and shot some borg. How is that out of character compared to his actions in that cave in Chains of Command?
As for the holodeck, it's human nature. Picard was losing his ship to the borg and its understandable after what he went through in BOBW. It's silly to say it's out of character for him when we never saw him in that kind of situtation. Everybody slips and blows up. It was a very stressful time for Picard. Even Spock lost his cool more than once, both on the show and in the movies.
As for the Enginnering in the end, the only action he did was swinging around, but what would you have him do when all of that gas was on the floor? He was very calm the whole time, talking to the queen and the data. He didn't pull a Bruce Willis in that scene.
As for the face off with Worf- so what? Worf questioned his judgement. Picard was taking the whole situtation personal which is understandable seeing what the Borg did to him. Picard doesn't always make the best judgement. Nobody does.
As for the planet, They should have known how far from the sun the planet should be. They should already have the orbital positions calculated in the computer. If we are able to calculate where the planets would be at a given date, surely a 23rd Century starship computer would be able too.
Star Trek: First Contact review
Why would anybody pick an uncharted system to perform a project of this magnitude. They couldn't risk picking a planet that is claimed by someone else. It would cause problems (they might claim the technology for themselves since it was used without permission). Picking an unhabitable planet in a familiar and safe territory would make sense.
And there is no way Kirk wouldn't tell Starfleet. He'd be liable if later down the road, someone decides to check it out for colonization. How can he be sure no ship comes by if he doesn't tell Starfleet?
Because it's a trap!
Because Joe Normal Spacefarer is less likely to be in a system where the only available information is "It's Boring"?
Also I'd assume that -region- of space was plotted at least well enough for Starfleet to know it was within their domain, though they apparently didn't know (or lost) the specifics.
As far as Kirk not necessarily being entirely forthright with Starfleet...well, this wouldn't be the first time...or last.
Also I'd assume that -region- of space was plotted at least well enough for Starfleet to know it was within their domain, though they apparently didn't know (or lost) the specifics.
As far as Kirk not necessarily being entirely forthright with Starfleet...well, this wouldn't be the first time...or last.
No. Spock and McCoy would not have Kirk get away with it this time. I'm not talking about joe average trying to reach Risa. I'm about colonization efforts or research missions by Starfleet or other agencies. Kirk did that kind of thing with a good reason. But not telling Starfleet about Khan would not fit Kirk's style.
Okay, then as suggested in "To Reign in Hell" one or more factors led to Reliant's crew not receiving information they should have had on the Ceti Alpha system.
In any event, it's no worse than asking why the Borg bothered fighting their way all the way to Earth to time travel when they could just as easily have done so in their own territory. Or why the Borg only bother sending one ship at a time, provided their goal actually is to assimilate Earth.
In any event, it's no worse than asking why the Borg bothered fighting their way all the way to Earth to time travel when they could just as easily have done so in their own territory. Or why the Borg only bother sending one ship at a time, provided their goal actually is to assimilate Earth.
Exactly. You can nitpick practically any classic movie, but a great film is more than the sum of its plot holes. FIRST CONTACT is easily the best of the TNG movies, but KHAN is probably the best TREK film ever . . . .
Uh, erm, why does it have to be Godfather II?
I liked the first better, although, I did enjoy Robert DeNiro's part as a young Vito Corleone...(Michael Corleone's scenes int the second were kinda boring, although--don't get me wrong--GF2 is not a bad film by any means).
Maybe we can look at T'wok as the Empire Strikes Back of Trek films. (Now, I will say this: ESB is better than T'wok, even though I am more of a Trek fan than SW fan...)
I say that because ESB kinda upped the ante in terms of story, music, ambiance....the same that T'wok did....
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Khan...by far.
rob
rob
trevanian
Rear Admiral
B.S.
All Picard did in that spacewalk was walking down to the deflect dish, input some commands and shot some borg. How is that out of character compared to his actions in that cave in Chains of Command?
As for the holodeck, it's human nature. Picard was losing his ship to the borg and its understandable after what he went through in BOBW. It's silly to say it's out of character for him when we never saw him in that kind of situtation. Everybody slips and blows up. It was a very stressful time for Picard. Even Spock lost his cool more than once, both on the show and in the movies.
As for the Enginnering in the end, the only action he did was swinging around, but what would you have him do when all of that gas was on the floor? He was very calm the whole time, talking to the queen and the data. He didn't pull a Bruce Willis in that scene.
As for the face off with Worf- so what? Worf questioned his judgement. Picard was taking the whole situtation personal which is understandable seeing what the Borg did to him. Picard doesn't always make the best judgement. Nobody does.
Yeah, but when Kirk isn't on his prime game command-wise, he does admit "you're not exactly catching us at our best."
NOTHING in FC rings true for me, to TNG or TREK (and I do consider them separate entities, for TNG repeals and/or reneges on a lot of what I found captivating in TOS.)
FC doesn't show Earth as pulverized or devastated, so there is no sense of bootstrapping us skyward with the phoenix ... it is just something that happens that we're told is significant, but the setting doesn't reflect the huge shift humanity is supposed to be in for. No nuclear winter or autumn, precious few clouds period, and the devastation is less visible ... well it is pretty much INvisible.
Picard as action-figure isn't that troubling to me (Picard in general is not of interest to me, outside of Q WHO and a few moments in YESTERDAY'S E), but Picard as emotional type is, because between SAREK and GENERATIONS, Stewart's worst scenes are the emotional ones. When he goes low and underplays, fine, but 'the line must be snorted here' is just funny/sad.
The exchange with Worf would have been great ... if this were a MirrorUniverse installment.
I think you have to ask the question "did this bother me the first time I saw the film".
If the answer is no then it is not really an issue. When I first saw TWOK the planet thing did not occur, when I first saw FC I didn't think that much about the "action Picard" thing or the "could have travelled in time miles from the massive fleet of starships" thing.
BUT - when I first saw Insurrection I thought it was boring and silly, and when I first saw NEM I thought it was silly and ripped off TWOK.
Khan is equal parts King Lear, Paradise Lost with a little bit of Moby Dick thrown in. FC has some of the Moby Dick elements, but in essence is an action movie. Where thematically Khan has more going on.
I love both movies, but i do think Khan is better. I could watch that one on a weekly basis, but i couldn't do that with FC.
It's hard to choose between the two because I like them both for the same reasons - interesting villains, fascinating interactions between characters, exciting action sequences, and stories with themes, ideas, and events that are intelligent and emotionally powerful. The main difference is how well each achieves these qualities.
They both have good action sequences, but "First Contact" has way better special effects. They both have conversations between characters that are poignant and/or stirring, but the ones in "The Wrath of Khan" are longer and more thoughtful because the movie is more leisurely paced. I appreciate that because it makes the movie more intelligent and deeper philosophically, but I think "First Contact" is stronger on a visceral level because its fight sequences feel more epic.
The final battle with Khan just looks kinda cheap and lame. "First Contact" may not delve as deeply into its characters and it doesn't have the insights or an ending that is as immensely moving, but at least its climax doesn't look so poor.
I think "The Wrath of Khan" is more eloquent and 'feels' more mature, but its sub-par effects make its climax disappointing, unlike "First Contact" which I find enthralling from start to finish. In short, "The Wrath of Khan" is the classier of the two, but "First Contact" is pound for pound better. It's like comparing something that's sometimes amazing and profound, but sometimes weak with something that's always good, but never quite reaches the same heights, and I'll go for consistency.
They both have good action sequences, but "First Contact" has way better special effects. They both have conversations between characters that are poignant and/or stirring, but the ones in "The Wrath of Khan" are longer and more thoughtful because the movie is more leisurely paced. I appreciate that because it makes the movie more intelligent and deeper philosophically, but I think "First Contact" is stronger on a visceral level because its fight sequences feel more epic.
The final battle with Khan just looks kinda cheap and lame. "First Contact" may not delve as deeply into its characters and it doesn't have the insights or an ending that is as immensely moving, but at least its climax doesn't look so poor.
I think "The Wrath of Khan" is more eloquent and 'feels' more mature, but its sub-par effects make its climax disappointing, unlike "First Contact" which I find enthralling from start to finish. In short, "The Wrath of Khan" is the classier of the two, but "First Contact" is pound for pound better. It's like comparing something that's sometimes amazing and profound, but sometimes weak with something that's always good, but never quite reaches the same heights, and I'll go for consistency.
First Contact by far but I love TWOK too.
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