And then there was that line about how this should settle the debate about it being a planet.
Or something. I haven't read it in a while.
Wow - Just read "Before Dishonor" - what a thrill ride! (Spoilers)
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And then there was that line about how this should settle the debate about it being a planet.
Or something. I haven't read it in a while.
Christopher,
I'm curious about how the decision to write characters or decide their fate is done by TPTB. I might be mistaken I believe you wrote that the decision to write out Leybenzon and T'Lana was made after their depiction in Before Dishonor. But wouldn't those character arcs be decided before the book was written? Or was Mr. David given some leeway to take the characters in that direction and the editor (s) later on decided about the characters' fates?
I do agree with you that there could've been some redemption for T'Lana. Of the new characters introduced from Resistance onward, I liked T'Lana the best and was disappointed to see her go.
I'm curious about how the decision to write characters or decide their fate is done by TPTB. I might be mistaken I believe you wrote that the decision to write out Leybenzon and T'Lana was made after their depiction in Before Dishonor. But wouldn't those character arcs be decided before the book was written? Or was Mr. David given some leeway to take the characters in that direction and the editor (s) later on decided about the characters' fates?
I do agree with you that there could've been some redemption for T'Lana. Of the new characters introduced from Resistance onward, I liked T'Lana the best and was disappointed to see her go.
^While editors generally have certain key points they want to hit in a given book, the bulk of the plot and character development is left to the writers. So writers will often come up with ideas that take the series in an unexpected direction. For instance, in Titan, there was no master plan for Riker and Troi to decide to have a kid; I just realized while I was writing Orion's Hounds that circumstances were pushing Deanna toward considering it, so I had her bring up the possibility at the end simply because it fit the way the story was flowing. I kept it tentative, and I wasn't sure I'd even be allowed to keep in that much. But it got through just fine, and subsequent writers decided to run with it.
I doubt there was any specific arc in mind for T'Lana, Leybenzon, Kadohata, or whoever; they were just introduced as characters who were intended to have certain personalities, backstories, relationships with other characters, etc., and then it was up to the writers to figure out what to do with those characters.
I doubt there was any specific arc in mind for T'Lana, Leybenzon, Kadohata, or whoever; they were just introduced as characters who were intended to have certain personalities, backstories, relationships with other characters, etc., and then it was up to the writers to figure out what to do with those characters.
And then there was that line about how this should settle the debate about it being a planet.
Or something. I haven't read it in a while.
That was my favorite part of the book!! Seriously ... people didn't like that???!!
I thought it added a great moment of humor, while still making the Borg seem insanely menacing and all-powerful. It was at this point that I actually worried that Peter David might actually have them destroy Earth!
Like I said, I found the humor and human moments made the story less grim and more like Star Trek, without losing the suspense. I found First Contact far too grim, like it was trying to give Star Trek a grim "Aliens - in space, no one can hear you scream" feel to it. That just isn't Trek to me. From the original series on, there was always a small element of humor or irony in even the grimmest situations. Shakespeare recognized that in even the darkest tragedy, there must some slight comic relief to de-stress the audience, as in MacBeth, where he placed a soliloquy by a comical castle guard between two very grim, horrific scenes. The audience needs this, and I feel Peter David understands that better than most of the Trek novel writers.
The Pluto scene worked perfectly well for me.
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My problem with Before Dishonor and the humor is that, while I agree with you about the small element of humor/irony (to a point), this book was too much like a New Frontier novel, with quite a bit more than a small element.
And I can only speak for myself, but I didn't really want humor in this story. Irony works, but not humor. We're talking about a giant Borg Supercube that has the possibility of succeeding where other Borg vessels have failed. If I had been working in the Operations Center (or wherever Jellico and Nechayev were) and hearing the two senior-most Starfleet officers talking like that, I'd have gone "What the f***?!" I thought it was a bit inappropriate, and reinforced my not take anything seriously about what he was writing. Part of why Destiny worked for me is because I could take it seriously. While I didn't think it would be endgame for the Federation, part of me was always thinking "Crap, this could be the end of the road..." all the time.
With Before Dishonor, I kept thinking "What the hell? Why did that happen? Jeez..." In the review thread I had posted a while back, I mentioned how, every time I read any book, but especially Trek Lit, I have snacks of some sort. The less I enjoy the book, the more snacks I need to get in order to power through the book. Before Dishonor set the record for the most snacks needed to get through. It got to the point where as soon as I was done, both reading and eating, I went and vomited (not because of the book, but because of the food).
And I can only speak for myself, but I didn't really want humor in this story. Irony works, but not humor. We're talking about a giant Borg Supercube that has the possibility of succeeding where other Borg vessels have failed. If I had been working in the Operations Center (or wherever Jellico and Nechayev were) and hearing the two senior-most Starfleet officers talking like that, I'd have gone "What the f***?!" I thought it was a bit inappropriate, and reinforced my not take anything seriously about what he was writing. Part of why Destiny worked for me is because I could take it seriously. While I didn't think it would be endgame for the Federation, part of me was always thinking "Crap, this could be the end of the road..." all the time.
With Before Dishonor, I kept thinking "What the hell? Why did that happen? Jeez..." In the review thread I had posted a while back, I mentioned how, every time I read any book, but especially Trek Lit, I have snacks of some sort. The less I enjoy the book, the more snacks I need to get in order to power through the book. Before Dishonor set the record for the most snacks needed to get through. It got to the point where as soon as I was done, both reading and eating, I went and vomited (not because of the book, but because of the food).
I haven't read New Frontier yet (although I plan to get and read the lot of them some day), but I remember thinking that Before Dishonor's humor was very much like Stargate SG-1's.
do i consider myself a janeway fan? yes. to the level of militancy? not even close. but, i still hesitate to voice my opinion for fear of being blithely dismissed as another MJF.
anyway, i think my problems with this book is not only was she killed in a TNG book where big bad borg janeway is killed by the ever noble federation savior picard, but they were both (IMO) written wildly out of character. picard laughs and jokes at a funeral? really? i've always found him to be much more reverent than that.
however, some of janeway's arguable flaws were consistently highlighted and even exaggerated. i certainly thought it was weird until a few fans told me that mr. david admitted to hating janeway. if true, then i can understand why he wrote her in such a poor light. on the other hand, to me, that also presents a conflict of interest in terms of fairly portraying a character and that should have disqualified him from writing it. although, in retrospect, i guess ms. clark thought he'd have the easiest time of killing her off.
so, yes, while i am disappointed that janeway was killed off (?) so early in the post-series novels i have been absolutely enjoying the last voyager novels and look forward to the third.
anyway, i think my problems with this book is not only was she killed in a TNG book where big bad borg janeway is killed by the ever noble federation savior picard, but they were both (IMO) written wildly out of character. picard laughs and jokes at a funeral? really? i've always found him to be much more reverent than that.
however, some of janeway's arguable flaws were consistently highlighted and even exaggerated. i certainly thought it was weird until a few fans told me that mr. david admitted to hating janeway. if true, then i can understand why he wrote her in such a poor light. on the other hand, to me, that also presents a conflict of interest in terms of fairly portraying a character and that should have disqualified him from writing it. although, in retrospect, i guess ms. clark thought he'd have the easiest time of killing her off.
so, yes, while i am disappointed that janeway was killed off (?) so early in the post-series novels i have been absolutely enjoying the last voyager novels and look forward to the third.
^Well, it just goes to show how perceptions differ. I thought Janeway came off rather well in Before Dishonor, certainly better than her stock-obstructionist-admiral portrayal in Resistance, and I felt her final exertion of will to sacrifice herself to save Seven and humanity was very heroic and touching, albeit maybe a bit too heavy on the slash subtext.
Yeah, I have to say, I didn't much care for the book either, but having heard how much PAD dislikes Janeway, I was surprised at how well she came off. My biggest problems were the cartoonish elements people have spoken of, the handling of the "mutiny," and the 2-dimensional characterizations of T'Lana and Leybenzon.
