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Would you say Picard is prime timeline or part of the Discoverse?

One aspect I did like from Enterprise was how they used the Soong story arc to explain away the human looking Klingons that we saw earlier in TOS, they really shouldn't have tried to splice augmented human DNA into themselves.

It made a lot of sense at the time and I half expected that to be revisited in Discovery, perhaps showing that the Klingons had the virus under control, enabling all of the various houses to finally reunite on their home world after they were forced to abandon it to stop the spread.

Didn't go that way though. :shrug:

We got T'Kuvma instead.

PS Picard is prime all day long just like Discovery.
 
One aspect I did like from Enterprise was how they used the Soong story arc to explain away the human looking Klingons that we saw earlier in TOS, they really shouldn't have tried to splice augmented human DNA into themselves.

It made a lot of sense at the time and I half expected that to be revisited in Discovery, perhaps showing that the Klingons had the virus under control, enabling all of the various houses to finally reunite on their home world after they were forced to abandon it to stop the spread.

Didn't go that way though. :shrug:

We got T'Kuvma instead.

PS Picard is prime all day long just like Discovery.

We could assume the DSC Klingons were the result of overcompensation vs the augment virus. They went too far trying to restore themselves and some of them took on more ancient features. There could still have been human looking Klingons, but they were out of power at the time of DSC.

Things can change pretty quickly in an empire based on who killed who last.
 
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Would could assume the DSC Klingons were the result of overcompensation vs the augment virus. They went too far trying to restore themselves and some of them took on more ancient features. There could still have been human looking Klingons, but they were out of power at the time of DSC.

Things can change pretty quickly in an empire based on who killed who last.
Or the Disco Klingons could have been the result of unavoidable inbreeding due to the limited gene pools available when all the different houses went their separate ways trying to avoid the virus.
 
How about the Season 2 redesigns?

Their heads shrank. Well on most of them. The few (mostly) bald klingons we saw kept the elongated Skull, but L'Rell's head was smaller then what she had in Season 1.

Also this is kinda getting off topic.
 
I have no idea what this word salad of a reply is supposed to be arguing.



You seriously gonna try to tell me that this



is not a major redesign from this?



You gonna claim that the Trill going from this



in TNG to this



in DS9 is not a major, major redesign on par with the DIS Klingon redesign?

How is it not a major redesign to go from this in TOS



to this in TNG



to this in ENT?



How is it not a huge change to go from three digits in TOS



to five digits in ENT?



(Funny how the TOS Tellarite's eyes look totally disconnected from his face...!)

Hell, ENT totally redesigned the Coridanites from one episode to another. The Chancellor of Coridan in "Shadows of P'Jem"



has a completely different apparent biology from the Coridanite ambassador in "Demons!"



And hey! The skeletal structure of the Gorn from ENT



is oriented completely differently from the skeletal structure of the Gorn from TOS!



Did the entire Gorn species develop Gorn scoliosis somewhere along the line?

All of of these redesigns are as major as the Klingon redesign in DIS. But only one of them has fans claiming it's a continuity violation or means the later production can't be in the Prime Timeline. Pure hypocrisy.




Viruses do not re-design entire skeletons. It's pure fantasy nonsense, on par with killing someone by pointing a wand at them and shouting "Avada Kadavra" in Harry Potter.




Every Trek fan does that, because if they didn't, they'd have to reconcile the dozens upon dozens of major continuity contradictions Trek has accumulated in its 50-odd year history. What, we're supposed to pretend "The Alternate Factor"'s depiction of anti-matter is in any consistent with the rest of the franchise?



Nothing in "Divergence" provides an explanation for why Klingons went from Fu Manchu/Yellow Peril stereotypes to a single boney ridge along the center of their foreheads. The topic is never addressed.



You mean this guy,



this guy,



and this gal?



Yes, I remember them.



Yes, they are offensive! Especially Marab, who is a virtual re-creation of the racist stereotype that was the Klingon makeup design of TOS. All three of them look like a disturbing combination of brownface and yellowface. It's totally offensive, it has the (I'm sure unintended) impact of supporting white supremacy, and it was a fundamentally bad idea to even go there.



That is a textbook ethnocentric response.

Skin tone isn't irrelevant in a white supremacist society like the United States. You don't get to dress white actors up as a combo of racist stereotypes of Asians, Arabs, and African Americans, and then pretend that that's a totally innocent thing no one else should object to. You really need to read up on the history of racial coding and Blackface/Brownface/Yellowface if you think otherwise.

* * *

You know what the kicker is?

I don't subjectively like the Klingon makeup design on DIS! I wish they hadn't extended the backs of the heads, I think they should have had hair in S1, and I think the difficulty the new lower facial prosthetics gives the actors in enunciating properly outweighs the importance of having a makeup that does not only cover the top half of the head in this era of HD television.

But I damn well respect that 1) it's no bigger a continuity problem to redesign the Klingons today than in the past, and 2) the producers, by giving Klingons a variety of skin tones not present in real-life humans, worked very hard to separate their Klingons from the racial coding that had previously (unconsciously during the TNG era -- the TOS Klingons were consciously designed to evoke Fu Manchu and were described in the script as "Orientals," so, yes, the TOS Klingons were an intentionally racist creation) affected the Klingon designs.

The Andorians had a great makeover on Enterprise, it was a nice subtle change. The rest of the pics you show are no where near as extreme as the Discovery redesign.(well maybe the Gorn) All nice minor updates and also except for the Romulans all the rest of the depicted races have not had that much screen time. That picture of all the different Klingon designs, a page back, the only one that sticks out like a sore thumb is the Discovery pointy head..
 
The Andorians had a great makeover on Enterprise, it was a nice subtle change. The rest of the pics you show are no where near as extreme as the Discovery redesign.(well maybe the Gorn) All nice minor updates and also except for the Romulans all the rest of the depicted races have not had that much screen time. That picture of all the different Klingon designs, a page back, the only one that sticks out like a sore thumb is the Discovery pointy head..
The Trill is a 100 % make over. Nothing was preserved from the TNG version.

Koloth and Kras are the "sore thumbs" for the Klingons. There's nothing alien about them. The Disco Klingons have the ridges. Ridges are Klingon.
 
I love so much hearing from people about how much ENT looks like it fits in. I'm neutral on the subject. But I wish I could bring some posters in 2001 forward to 2020. If they saw this being said, I think we'd need to call an ambulance because they'd have an aneurysm.

I don't feel like waiting the usual 20 years for a Star Trek series to be accepted. So I'll just skip right over that and say they'll have an explanation for anything people find "objectionable" about DSC. I have "faith of the heart" they'll come up with something. Not that I think they need to, but they'll feel compelled to anyway. Then we'll have it. And that will be that.

Just one thing, Alex. When you handle it, please do it better than Rick. No need to make it into a two-parter. Thanks.
 
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I guess if TMP had used this design we might have avoided the DISCO Klingon controversy. ;)
RfYLmad.png
 
Koloth and Kras are the "sore thumbs" for the Klingons. There's nothing alien about them. The Disco Klingons have the ridges. Ridges are Klingon.

How did that even happen in the first place? I know videotape weren't readily available in the 60s, but didn't they keep reference photos around?
 
Iirc the changes in the Trill make up was because they didn’t want to cover Terry in prosthetics.
Also, I think she had an allergic reaction to the forehead prosthetic when she tried it out.
How did that even happen in the first place? I know videotape weren't readily available in the 60s, but didn't they keep reference photos around?
No one gave a shit back then, and they didn't expect the audience to either.
 
visualized earlier:

Dude, if you can't actually articulate yourself, just say so.

romulans 1 piece changed (watch PIC for the reason)

The in-universe reason does not matter. What matters is that the alien design change was just as significant as the change to DIS Klingons, but you declare one to be irrelevant and the other to be cause for claiming DIS is another continuity.

Your behavior is arbitrary and hypocritical.

If you don't like the DIS Klingon design, just say that. Don't play these fucking "I have an objective standard I adhere to" bullshit.

genes can do a lot of things. biology and magic are very different.

Yeah, bullshit. It was a magic virus powered by handwave-ium and technobabble that meant nothing IRL. "We've got to [tech] the [tech]!" in a million Berman-era ST scripts is not real science.

perhaps you should watch it again.
Antaak: "I'll need to find a new specialty – perhaps cranial reconstruction!"
Phlox: "I have a feeling that's about to become very popular."

That is a creative interpretation that may well be used to justify the inconsistency in your own personal interpretation of the work. That's fine if that's how you want to interpret it!

But nothing in that exchange addresses why Klingons in TMP look different from Klingons in every other production both before and after. The characters do not say, "Yes, the crew of the IKS Whatever all had a skinny bone ridge down the center of their foreheads because they chose a particular cranial reconstruction artist but most Klingons chose something different." A creative interpretation of the text is not the same thing as actual textual content.

what is offensive and disturbing about antaak?

They are all influenced by yellowface and brownface makeup traditions, which you would know if you read up on the damn subject before opening your mouth to spew ignorant blather.

laneth is the only one that was clearly darkened with makeup. marab is k'vagh's son, so his tone makes sense, and the actor could simply have that tone anyway. all actors should be free to be cast as klingons no matter what their actual skin tone is. what's "yellow" about them?

Look up the history of yellowface, brownface, and blackface. Please. Stop pretending there's nothing fundamentally offensive about Fu Manchu designs.

what does that have to do with aliens on a sci-fi show?

They are not aliens on a sci-fi show. They are actors wearing makeup in the real world, and that makeup is designed by people from a white supremacist culture.

Here, start with this and then go do more research afterwards:

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The Andorians had a great makeover on Enterprise, it was a nice subtle change.

They have huge forehead bumps, and the antennae are much shorter and lack the insectoid-looking phalanges. It's a huge change that's easily on par with the DIS Klingon change, and 20 years ago fandom was screaming about it.

The rest of the pics you show are no where near as extreme as the Discovery redesign.

This



looks absolutely nothing like this.



Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
 
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