Poll Would you purchase a legit remaster of DS9?

[Captrek]

If we can wait until the tech is mature, an AI upscale could actually be better than a remaster from the original elements.

The props they used for batleths were not particularly sharp, and why should they be? You want untrained actors swinging sharp blades around when you can’t tell the difference on the TVs of the day?

On the 85” set I have today, the bluntness of the props is quite apparent, even with the crappy video quality. A remaster from the original elements would make it even more obvious. An AI upscale, with humans overseeing the process to tell it that batleths should be sharp, can give us batleths that look like batleths and not like props.

Cheap props representing supposedly valuable merchandise are common in the series. An AI upscale, when the tech is mature, can make them look like what they’re supposed to look like instead of the cheap props that were used on set. I don’t really need to see Quark drooling over colored bits of plastic.

 

[Tosk]

A remaster from the original elements would make it even more obvious. An AI upscale, with humans overseeing the process to tell it that batleths should be sharp, can give us batleths that look like batleths and not like props.

Sounds to me you don't actually want a remaster. You want a rebuild that only resembles the original show.

 

[Captrek]

Sounds to me you don't actually want a remaster. You want a rebuild that only resembles the original show.

Label it however you want. When they replaced the effects in TOS, they called it a remaster, not a rebuild, and that’s the terminology I’m using. The fine tuning I’m suggesting is far less drastic. It’s just about making it look good on modern TVs, which the original props were never intended to.

 

[Leviathan]

 

[Honshu]

DVD vs Blu-ray.

View attachment 48664View attachment 48666View attachment 48665

Looks like the old unsharp mask, wielded at large... I agree, not sure it would be an improvement

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That depends when they do it. Do they wait until the tech is mature or do it as soon as it’s possible? AI will get to the point where it can do an excellent job, it’s just a matter of time.

That might happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More often than not, AI is used as an excuse for subpar work that removes the critical eye of a human and undermines the archiving of old film materials.

 

[Captrek]

That might happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More often than not, AI is used as an excuse for subpar work that removes the critical eye of a human and undermines the archiving of old film materials.

That’s because of the limitations of today’s technology. AI tech is developing rapidly.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That’s because of the limitations of today’s technology. AI tech is developing rapidly.

No.

Without the original footage and effects files, AI is nothing more than an Adobe transformation tool. It does nothing to preserve the footage. And without the human eye, especially the original creators, it will only ever be a guess about the look of the show.

 

[Captrek]

No.

Without the original footage at effects files, AI is nothing more than an Adobe transformation tool. It does nothing to preserve the footage. And without the human eye, especially or original creators, it will only ever be a guess about the look of the show.

Without the human eye? Who said the AI would be unsupervised by humans?

It’s true that the original elements have detail that isn’t present in the current show. And maybe those original elements could be used in the remastering. But a lot of that detail was never meant to be seen. If you really want to see how the bat’leths are not real weapons and how the fancy jewelry Quark drools over is really cheap plastic, then the original elements obviously have the most accurate information about how it looked on set. But if you want something that looks more like Deep Space Nine than like a studio in California, AI will eventually be able to do a better job.

 

[Tosk]

Looks like the old unsharp mask, wielded at large... I agree, not sure it would be an improvement

You will not get the image on the right by simply un/sharpening the image on the left.

The fine tuning I’m suggesting is far less drastic.

Do you stop there, or do you replace/fix make-up too? How about the set extensions? Uniform gaffes?

Those are rhetorical questions. You're talking about using Ai to replace the props in actors hands. I guess we'll just to have to agree to disagree on how drastic an alteration that is.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But a lot of that detail was never meant to be seen.

That is almost entirely the point. The masters we have lack detail for modern televisions. Remastering would retrieve that detail, not just the lines, but the color and textures that AI can only guess about.

 

[Captrek]

That is almost entirely the point. The masters we have lack detail for modern televisions. Remastering would retrieve that detail, not just the lines, but the color and textures that AI can only guess about.

I’m OK with an intelligent guess. I don’t need to see what it looked like on set, as long as it looks good and is consistent with the show as it exists. I’m not looking to get behind the scenes.

 

[Dukhat]

They’re not going to use AI to change props in actors’ hands. They’re going to make DS9 in HD in the cheapest and least time-consuming way possible.

 

[kkt]

If we can wait until the tech is mature, an AI upscale could actually be better than a remaster from the original elements.

The props they used for batleths were not particularly sharp, and why should they be? You want untrained actors swinging sharp blades around when you can’t tell the difference on the TVs of the day?

On the 85” set I have today, the bluntness of the props is quite apparent, even with the crappy video quality. A remaster from the original elements would make it even more obvious. An AI upscale, with humans overseeing the process to tell it that batleths should be sharp, can give us batleths that look like batleths and not like props.

Cheap props representing supposedly valuable merchandise are common in the series. An AI upscale, when the tech is mature, can make them look like what they’re supposed to look like instead of the cheap props that were used on set. I don’t really need to see Quark drooling over colored bits of plastic.

I think I'm okay with suspending my disbelief in the sharpness of the batleths. Maybe I'll just buy another DVD set for when the ones I've got wear out.

 

[Ragitsu]

"AI" ("pattern-producing software", in reality) - at least, how it is presently used - cannot create detail where none exists; original film stock is required for a genuine remaster. I would never pay for an "AI"-enlarged version of Star Trek...or any other television show/film, for that matter.

 

[Captrek]

"AI" ("pattern-producing software", in reality) - at least, how it is presently used - cannot create detail where none exists; original film stock is required for a genuine remaster. I would never pay for an "AI"-enlarged version of Star Trek...or any other television show/film, for that matter.

Any detail a future AI cannot discern by watching the entirety of the show is a detail you cannot discern by watching the entirety of the show, so you’ll never know it’s missing. It’s a detail that existed on the set, never on Deep Space Nine.

The AI can imagine any texture for the fabrics it wants that is consistent with what we see on screen in the existing show. Any judgment calls can be guided by humans. It doesn’t have to match exactly what was seen on set because all they cared about at the time was how it looked on TVs of the day.

Of course we’re not talking about existing AI tech, but it’s not far in the future.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yes, mediocrity is closer than we think!

 

[Ragitsu]

Any detail a future AI cannot discern by watching the entirety of the show is a detail you cannot discern by watching the entirety of the show, so you’ll never know it’s missing. It’s a detail that existed on the set, never on Deep Space Nine.

The AI can imagine any texture for the fabrics it wants that is consistent with what we see on screen in the existing show. Any judgment calls can be guided by humans. It doesn’t have to match exactly what was seen on set because all they cared about at the time was how it looked on TVs of the day.

Of course we’re not talking about existing AI tech, but it’s not far in the future.

In the interest of ensuring properly informed consumers, any use of pattern-producing software in the creation of a product should be made public information.

 

[Captrek]

In the interest of ensuring properly informed consumers, any use of pattern-producing software in the creation of a product should be made public information.

The use of cutting edge tech is probably something they’d want to advertise anyway. The buyers and streamers lost to philosophical objections over AI would probably be matched by those interested in the new tech. Anyway, I agree the consumer should know what they’re buying.