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Would the Doctor Who DVD/Confidential approach work with TOS?

23skidoo

Admiral
Admiral
I need to explain a little before I ask my question, for those who might not be familiar with Doctor Who. With no disrespect intended to Trek, Doctor Who is the most comprehensively covered TV series ever released on DVD. The original 1963-89 is being released with each serialized story being given its own separate DVD. With only a handful of exceptions, these DVDs include a 20-45 minute documentary on the making of the story, sometimes a featurette spun-off from some element of the story, original promo ads where available, and other archive footage. Oh, and PDFs on the DVD-ROM side of things like the original TV listings, etc. There's also been a few releases that included both the original version of the story and an enhanced version with new SFX (sound familiar?)

The 2005-present revival hasn't gone that route, but in the UK every single episode has a documentary produced about its making, which airs in 45-minute timeslots as Doctor Who Confidential right after the main show, and on DVD release these are cut down to 10-15 minute featurettes. But there's still one for every episode.

For TOS to equal this, this would mean the creation of about 77 documentaries (my number might be off by a couple - I would assume The Menagerie counts as one). But I see no reason why it couldn't be done. Between the cast members, the fact every episode of TOS has been studied and dissected by fans and scholars, every episode has a story behind its creation, many were written by notable authors, etc. there's no reason that they couldn't do a "Star Trek Confidential" if they wanted to.

I'm not suggesting I'd like to see Star Trek reissued episode by episode (like they did back when DVD first started). They have the box sets, and they even included the original versions of the episodes alongside the altered ones. But if they ever were to do a new release of the episodes - maybe for download or iPad or something - would you like to see every episode of TOS be given the whole-hog Doctor Who treatment?

Alex
 
TOS has been so well documented over the years I doubt these episode documentaries would bring out anything new.
 
I need to explain a little before I ask my question, for those who might not be familiar with Doctor Who. With no disrespect intended to Trek, Doctor Who is the most comprehensively covered TV series ever released on DVD. The original 1963-89 is being released with each serialized story being given its own separate DVD.
first let's clarify. do you have a link to the announced Dr. Who DVD product?

I think with Paramount Home video having releases in 1998 on DVD as 2-episode DVDs, then in 2004 releasing entire seasons, then in 2007 releasing entire seasons again (remastered) TOS, then on Blu-ray in 2009 TOS has had their run of sales on DVD.

I think TNG and ENT are the next Trek properties to really pull some additional profits out of using the Blu-ray as a product to sell. TNG-R will have a large investment though.

after those two then remastered versions of the Trek feature films on Blu-ray other than STII:TWOK to come out by 2015.

Once 2015 hits I think Blu-ray will be on the downward slope with on-demand HDTV & Internet-based streaming and downloaded content gaining to be the primary way of viewing HD content not on linear TV.
 
I need to explain a little before I ask my question, for those who might not be familiar with Doctor Who. With no disrespect intended to Trek, Doctor Who is the most comprehensively covered TV series ever released on DVD. The original 1963-89 is being released with each serialized story being given its own separate DVD.
first let's clarify. do you have a link to the announced Dr. Who DVD product?

This is on the original Dr. Who series DVDs including voice and text commentaries. I don't think it could work with the Star Trek DVDs, it would mean a yet another rerelease of what's been released some three times over with regard to TOS.

Now if there's a new Star Trek series it might be a good idea to add more the DVD releases.
 
Viewing youtube, there seems to be a lot of interviews from both the Sci-Fi Channel airings and one of the VHS releases of the episodes. A good, supplementary feature could probably be produced without filming any new material. That said, it would mean yet another release of the series on home video, which I could do without.

It would certainly be nice to see this kind of treatment for further Trek releases, though.
 
I don't know about the Blue Ray release of TOS, but the extras in the DVD sets sucked. Anything would be better than having to watch Shatner prance around on a horse. Shatner's equestrian display lasted so interminably long that I started to fear that I had somehow slipped into the Nexus.
 
The Blu-Ray has a few new features, but most everything has been ported over from the DVD release. Including that Shatner feature with the horses.
 
I didn't own the DVD's and wanted the remastered so love the BD set for that alone. Not really interested in special features as much as I am in PQ and AQ in my home theater (60" 1080p and 7.1 Denon/Polk).
 
In my opinion, it's probably too late to do it for TOS. With the re-boot of the franchise, you might be able to do it for TNG. Post-TNG series are too soon. Here's why:

Unlike Doctor Who (which, I agree, is an awesome program and the 2005-to-present series are fantastic), Star Trek has a mythos within its own fandom. We are, as a group, a bunch of elitists about our program.

As near as I can tell, this grew out of an idealism of the 1960s youth to seek The Truth. TOS became part of fans' personal "Truth."

This was heavily capitalized-upon by Roddenberry primarily and the actors secondarily. Roddenberry used his status as creator to install himself as a de-facto leader of a movement in which TOS was prominent.

And, let's face it, he lied a lot about the show. He consistently highlighted his own contributions (which were naturally many, as the show's creator and producer) while at the same time downplaying or never mentioning the contributions of others.

The actors did it, too. They found themselves also at the center of attention in a movement, being anointed de-facto leaders. For most of them, the only way they were making any money was by telling TOS anecdotes and signing autographs.

There is consequently a great deal of nonsense about how TOS was produced. TMOST -- written during production -- has some of the best, most immediate information on the series. However, even that shows signs of Roddenberry's fingerprints -- up to and including that all his major quotes be capitalized and indented. It's as though his were meant to be the Word of God or something.

Now, the reality is that some of the factors that go into making artistic decisions are not at all artistic. A lot of the time, it's just plain money. Other times, it can be personality quirks showing themselves. In any venture with more than one person, there are politics and interpersonal squabbling.

No series made about a show while the show is in production can afford to be 100% truthful. In TOS' case, TMOST is a decent book because the author primarily focuses on the physical mechanics of making the show. He doesn't get into how episodes are written except in a general way. Where he gets specific, it's amusing rather than malicious.

To look at this another way, because Doctor Who Confidential is a series about a series that is currently in production, there are things it's not telling you. There are people it cannot afford to piss off. There is internal politics and squabbling that is entirely normal but that might make the show's runners appear petty to viewers. This could, in turn, impact the ratings of not only Confidential, but the program itself.

TMOST was the same way. It could talk about factual mechanics of making a TV show. It could tell some of the more amusing stories. It could not tell the story about Nichelle Nichols being caught waiting for Roddenberry under his desk. It couldn't talk about how he had not just one (Majel) but at least two (Nichols) mistresses -- and that some of his casting choices had clearly been made with Roddenberry's hormones.

Those stories can be told now, because almost no one of consequence from the time is still working in Hollywood. In fact, a lot of them are dying of old age. You can tell the story about Nichols now and it doesn't matter: he's dead and she's a great-grandmother. If Majel and Nichols are upset about it, who can they complain to? Nobody -- it just doesn't matter any more.

Now would be a great time for an in-depth treatment of TOS -- except that people are dying. I'd personally have used Bob Justman and Herb Solow pretty intensively, and now Justman is dead. I don't know Solow's health status, but he's an elderly man at least.

Who do you call that has in-depth knowledge of the facts, can actually remember them, and is willing to talk about it? Roddenberry didn't tell the straight story when he was alive. The actors have been embellishing in minor ways for 40 years at cons. I'm sure that even they believe the minor embellishments after all these years. Most of the actors remain hung up on Shatner, too -- and the reality is that while important, the actors' contributions to a show actually come last. They're also the least-utilized, at least in a low-ratings show like TOS that had no Big Name Star. Shatner could command some attention by being the lead, but I guarantee that James Arness commanded a great deal more over on Gunsmoke.

Anyway, a lot of TOS has become more dogma than truth, and there's no longer anyone alive who can really remember how it all got done. They have half-century-old memories of a period of three years where they worked really hard. Some of the harder work they'll remember -- but how vividly?

In short, for TOS, I think damned near all has been said that can be said. It'll be the work of the next half-century to piece together all that's been said and attempt to find the common truth in them.

You might be able to get away with a Confidential-style treatment for TNG. The people who made it are still alive, they probably remember a lot of it, and they might be willing to talk about the "bad parts" now. I would be very interested, for example, in hearing more about Roddenberry and Leonard Maizlish. Maizlish was Roddenberry's attorney. The way I've heard various stories makes it sound like that by TNG's second season, Roddenberry had basically turned his affairs over to Maizlish and this caused all kinds of problems.

There've been hints at that for years ... I spoke to both Peter David and Jeanne Dillard about it personally in about 1991 -- after they'd both had a little to drink at the Michigan City Star Trek festival. At the time, Maizlish was running roughshod over Pocket Books, and neither of them were very happy about it.

I'd like to hear about that side of things, now that the principals are fairly irrelevant.

Later than TNG, and you get into people who are still working in the industry, so telling those stories accurately becomes more difficult. No doubt somebody on Enterprise was getting hummers under the desks from somebody else -- but those people are still working. Tell the stories now, and it could undermine one's career.

What would be really grand would have been a series of hidden cameras all over the Desilu lot -- even in Lucille Ball's office. If they'd done that, then stored everything in a vault (not to be opened until, say, after Leonard Nimoy's death), we could finally get a true account of how and why everything was done the way it was. Short of that ... well, the story we've got is probably the one we're stuck with.

I'd advise anyone connected with the JJ-verse Star Trek to keep a detailed, logged, accurate account of their involvement. Take tons of pictures, video records, etc. Measure and record everything. Spend twice as much time documenting as you do performing real work. Then, when you're about 65, release it and make a fortune. :)

Dakota Smith
 
I met Bjo for the first (and to-date only) time at the Michigan City Star Trek Festival in 1991. It was the same con where I talked privately with Peter David and then Jeanne Dillard (separate conversations) about Leonard Maizlish.

I doubt Bjo would remember me after all this time, but I passed on a message from Marshall Presnell, who was a friend we had in common. She gave me the reply and passed a question back via me.

It's my one real claim to any fannish fame: I once acted as messenger for Bjo Trimble. ;)

Dakota Smith
 
Gene was very badly served by his inner circle of Maizlish (ptui!), Richard Arnold, and Susan Sackett, although Susan was probably the least of the offenders (except maybe in Majel's opinion, but that's another matter). If they hadn't driven away the old guard of Bjo, Dorothy Fontana, Bob Justman, David Gerrold, and probably some others, I think things would've been a lot happier for all concerned. TNG might not have been quite so leadfooted in those early years, GR wouldn't have been so depressed about having been abandoned by his old friends...hell, he might even still be alive today if the stress from all of the above hadn't eaten away at him.
 
Richard Arnold -- there's another name I haven't heard in a while. David and Dillard sort of talked around Maizlish. I think that as an attorney they were a little afraid to name his name very often.

Richard Arnold was another matter entirely. They had all sorts of things to say about him, because apparently he was the guy reading (and requiring re-writes on) their novels and it just about drove them insane. The moment I used Arnold's name, both of them were happy to talk. Maizlish scared them, I think. Possibly they simply saw more of Arnold than Maizlish and so had more to say.

I honestly don't know, but I'd like to. The only stories I've heard outside of David and Dillard are third-or-worse-hand. When discussed, Maizlish is usually just characterized as, "Gene's attorney" with some general reference to him having too much power.

As I say, I'd love to hear more about that from the people who were actually involved. Unfortunately, they don't seem to care enough 20 years later or they don't feel comfortable doing it. I can hardly tell which it is from Iowa. ;)

I've always been rather curious about Susan Sackett. Learning that she was one of Roddenberry's mistresses didn't shock me when I found out, though it put all the work he'd done while she was his secretary in a new light. Knowing that the author was sleeping with GR puts a different kind of read on The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, for example. I can certainly imagine that Majel would dislike Sackett under the circumstances. ;)

To be honest, in my middle years and having seen more than one man with more than one mistress, I have to wonder just how many TOS female guest stars GR may have been sleeping with? Diana Muldaur, for example: two guest shots in TOS and a recurring part in S2 of TNG? Knowing that GR slept around a lot and given how attractive Muldaur was in the 1960s, I simply have to wonder ...

Dakota Smith
 
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