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Would Something Like Section 31 Exist in Real Life?

I think the phrase you want is "goody two-shoes".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_Little_Goody_Two-Shoes

Most of the time the CIA overthrew governments, assassinated people, etc., it was by order of the president or at least with his general authorization.

The CIA's power shrank quite a bit in the late 1970s, in reaction to Vietnam, Nixon, Cambodia, domestic surveillance abuses. The CIA didn't like it at all. They did not stage a coup, though.
No they didn't, they did do drug running to make up for lost funding and just in the past five years have devoted something like 10% of their budget to toppling the Assad government.

The CIA and the other appendant security apparatuses I think do wield some influence over foreign and domestic policy-moving presidents to make decisions they would not make and vice versa, they have dirt on members of Congress(probably).

The state isn't necessarily under the control of elected representatives.

I've even read they influenced French academia and have been behind various efforts to promote STEM or business instead of politics.
 
You think the president didn't give at least tacit approval to toppling the Assad government?
 
Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics? To what end?

Possibly because China is eating our breakfast in those areas. (But not in History, Business, Social Studies or Entertainment of course).

Reality isn't like on TV. You get a rogue cop getting rough with a suspect in interrogation in reality, you get a faulty conviction. IE, an ineffective cop, a lower clearance rate for your whole department, and eventually a new administration.

When you factor in the actual conviction rate vs crime rate, it's already paltry. In other words, within the national borders, your US agency does have laws it must adhere to in order to simply function. Put them abroad in some hellhole, and it's the law of the hellhole. The very premise is faulty, let alone factoring in individual choices.

This is why citizens armed with pens, cameras (and yes, arms) is so important to keeping an informed populace, who in turn do in fact elect the Commander-In-Chief. The moment any state agency acts beyond the law, within its jurisdiction, it forfeits its mandate of authority, and becomes a mechanism of injustice and even tyranny.

Think this is bad? At least we know about the CIA and NSA! How many agencies around the world have we never even heard of, much less hold to any account whatsoever?
 
You think the president didn't give at least tacit approval to toppling the Assad government?
They were about to topple the Assad government in 2013 but popular opposition caused the government of the US and UK to back away.

Then in the midst of the failure and embarrassment Putin offered to save Obama's cred by telling Assad to give up his Chems.

Trust me I remember September 2013.
 
No. I'm wondering about getting them from Marxism to STEM.
Students in the stem fields often struggle to grasp politics and really can't comprehend the world beyond the specific gears in which they study.

Now I'm not a Marxist or even really left wing but I certainly understand why the powers that be want those grasp how to work the machine but can't comprehend that they either don't need to be grinding on it or that they can be controlling said system.

Furthermore STEM graduates are basically a farm system for global MNCs they don't have much in the way of local or national loyalties-the MNCs and the graduates aren't the ones to maintain such loyalties very devotedly.

Those who study literature, history and yes politics are engaged they grasp how the world was what it is and where it is going they have a much firmer grasp of human beings than STEM graduates who often struggle to grasp basic philosophical or literary concepts, are susceptible to technocratic or professionalist appeals(we're so much smarter than the peons!).

Stem graduates often can't comprehend the ends and outs of politics and lack motivation to participate in either civil society or seek to change society for whatever end.
 
Students in the stem fields often struggle to grasp politics and really can't comprehend the world beyond the specific gears in which they study.

Now I'm not a Marxist or even really left wing but I certainly understand why the powers that be want those grasp how to work the machine but can't comprehend that they either don't need to be grinding on it or that they can be controlling said system.

Furthermore STEM graduates are basically a farm system for global MNCs they don't have much in the way of local or national loyalties-the MNCs and the graduates aren't the ones to maintain such loyalties very devotedly.

Those who study literature, history and yes politics are engaged they grasp how the world was what it is and where it is going they have a much firmer grasp of human beings than STEM graduates who often struggle to grasp basic philosophical or literary concepts, are susceptible to technocratic or professionalist appeals(we're so much smarter than the peons!).

Stem graduates often can't comprehend the ends and outs of politics and lack motivation to participate in either civil society or seek to change society for whatever end.
So by pushing STEM, the CIA has "saved" the world from Marxism??? Yeah, not sure I can buy that.
 
So by pushing STEM, the CIA has "saved" the world from Marxism??? Yeah, not sure I can buy that.
Marxism was already dilapidated and broken as a foundation for left wing thought and action and had been since at least the end of WW2 perhaps even earlier with Stalin's actions in the 1920s and 1930s.

The CIA did influence political theory in france which in turn influenced Anglo-American academia-leading it into a middle class, well heeled "identity politics" based affair with heavy doses of Foucalt and Fanon's near incomprehensible rubbish and the general demoralization and moral bankruptcy of post-modernism generally.
 
For China, it's sort of the same reason public spaces are all landscaped with flower hills and winding pathways. There are literally far fewer places where crowds can gather. This mentality is very much incorporated into their educational system. Even very well educated history buffs in China have nothing but good things to say, and often adhere to erroneous assumptions such as "China is 5000 years old" (despite a vastly shifting geography through the millennia) and "China has never invaded another country" (patently false), etc. Qualification does not exist once the authorized view has been articulated.

When I said that China is eating our breakfast in STEM, it's not entirely accurate, either. I mean, they are indeed cranking out legions of engineers - but the Confucian-Communist culture sees to it that they are firmly rooted in a reverse-engineering mindset, rather than an anticipatory, problem-solving or innovative one. This goes with the mainland's rote, cookie-cutter education system, and is reinforced by internet censorship and travel restriction. And before anyone apologizes, yes there are exceptions, because reality does not work quite the way communism dictates it.

The current generation in China is an elephant on a rope. It has been chained so long it no longer test its bonds and can be held all the easier.

Not to worry - not only are China's test scores highly dubious - more innovations come from businesspeople and scientists than engineers anyway, especially ones in mundane manufacturing industries. When it comes to China, India et al - a person would be wise to always look beyond the surface numbers; and to observe the negative space in the official accounts.

But let's be clear: while China and North Korea are entirely dependent upon the free world markets, (avoiding in practice a liberal economy or empowered middle class, propping up glitzy international shopping malls no one buys anything from), they do keep the world at arm's (or arms') length for the home audience. Case in point: a bristling unwelcome in one of the heaviest-trafficked international shipping waterways in the world. Ha ha, "free trade" they tout. Sure, for them.

Captive audience. I will only add that I have been in China long enough to recognize it is foot-dragging its so-called modernization to the fullest extent. It could have come much, much further by now if it only chose to. This is because their government is, in fact, protecting their profitable status quo. And instead of freedom, the people are taught to yearn for (xenophobic) ethnic pride, as subsumed by the communist party paradigm - despite "5,000 years" of ethnic existence without the benefit of totalitarian communism.

Cheers!
 
Whether or not the CIA is sufficiently controlled by Congress and the President, the simple fact of the matter is that it exists because of a statute passed by Congress and signed into law, it gets its money from Congress, it could be abolished by an Act of Congress, and there are mechanisms of accountability to the elected constitutional officers. Those mechanisms aren't perfect, and we are arguably now witnessing a slow-motion conflict between the new "President" and the CIA. But the fact is, the CIA isn't above the law and cannot operate on its own, accountable to no one, without being subject to democratic political pressure.

That is vastly different from Section 31. Section 31 doesn't have any authorizing statute, it isn't funded by the Federation Council, it doesn't answer to the Federation President, and there are no mechanisms of accountability to elected constitutional officers. The Central Intelligence Agency's existence as an institution is legitimate; Section 31's existence as a cabal, a conspiracy within Starfleet, is not. That's why Section 31 really cannot be compared to the CIA.

Better comparison:

Section 31 is to the Federation Starfleet in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine as Hydra is to SHIELD in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
 
In recent news its been discovered the CIA can hack your car to perform untraceable assassinations.

The deep state and security services do exist and are quite powerful, there hold over elected representatives and the machinery of the state seems unbounded.

Section 31 is quite possible and I imagine it exists today.
 
Marxism was already dilapidated and broken as a foundation for left wing thought and action and had been since at least the end of WW2 perhaps even earlier with Stalin's actions in the 1920s and 1930s.

In which case why protect us from it with hacked cars?
 
In recent news its been discovered the CIA can hack your car to perform untraceable assassinations.

I mean, if your car has an Internet connection.

You're certainly making a strong argument that the CIA and other intelligence agencies have too much power. But that's still not the same thing as an organization whose existence is both secret and unauthorized by law, and which answers to nobody. Even if the CIA is engaging in abuses of power that it needs to hide from Congress and the public, it still has to present a public face that is acceptable to the public and Congress -- which limits its options for illegal actions (since it has to avoid getting caught). That's vastly different from an illegal conspiracy within the government that does whatever it wants because only a small handful of people even know it exists.

Think less "CIA" and more "Iran-Contra."

The deep state and security services do exist and are quite powerful, there hold over elected representatives and the machinery of the state seems unbounded.

If it were unbounded, I don't think we would see the kind of open conflict between Trump and the CIA that we're seeing today.
 
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