Would Riker get away with calling Picard "JL"?

[fireproof78]

The thing about a nickname is that it's received either willingly or unwillingly, and it says something about both the giver and the receiver. Clearly it was received willingly, in that Picard had the power in the relationship, but I find it hard to imagine him doing so. Even if he was being friendly, I would expect a "Please call me Jean-Luc."

It's possible to invent potential scenarios when this could have come about, but that's the same as making up stuff to explain away Discovery's plot holes. Just not my bag.

I don't know...? I have a boss whom I call "Boss" but she didn't like the nickname at first. It warmed over time but it wasn't an immediate willing reception. It just kind of stuck.

Life is weird. I don't need to invent "possible scenarios" when I live them.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Picard is European - so it would be Jean-luc - not a single one of my students, PhD or otherwise refer to me as Prof. Zhang.

Practices vary from institution to institution, country to country. At the university where I earned my PhD, some grad students felt comfortable calling the faculty by their first names; the rest used "Professor." When I teach now, everyone is expected to call each other "Doctor" when in the office (it's really annoying). In Germany, everyone expected "Dr." or "Dr. Prof.", although a few waved this away. In France, I was told to use "Monsieur" (at least in the archives and at the university).

Personally, I'm not taken aback by Picard being called "J-L." It's just a shorthand for where he was in his life and the relationship with his immediate subordinates. At 4:20 pm, everyone must have been first-naming each other.

 

[Cake]

Picard is European - so it would be Jean-luc - not a single one of my students, PhD or otherwise refer to me as Prof. Zhang.

I really don't think you can conclude from your own experience to the whole of Europe of today. A random 20 year old student being informal with his/her 50 year old professor and calling him/her by his/her first name would be weird to me. There is just this hierarchy of position and the age difference is also a factor. I mean sure some professors especially young ones might want that their students are informal with them, but a lot not and it would be totally disrespectful in this case for a student to call him/her by his/her first name. Not sure how it is specifically in France nowadays though.

That said PIC plays far in the future and a lot of things can have changed and Musiker was also not the student of Picard. They were work colleagues and while he had a higher rank she was an officer with years of experience herself. And obviously they were also friends in the past. They definitely didn't have just a formal relationship. They liked each other. So being informal in private with each other fits.

 

[ITDUDE]

Complaining about nicknames, are we?

 

[Takeru]

In Germany, everyone expected "Dr." or "Dr. Prof.", although a few waved this away.

That's not my experience at all, Dr., Prof. etc. are usually ignored, it's either first name or Herr/Frau Last name and there's no waving, Doctors and Professors have no right to demand to be addressed like that by their students or anyone else in germany.

I really don't think you can conclude from your own experience to the whole of Europe of today. A random 20 year old student being informal with his/her 50 year old professor and calling him/her by his/her first name would be weird to me.

And it's normal to me.

 

[The Wormhole]

You don't "lighten up" that much with age,

I don't know, just compare Picard of AGT with Picard of Farpoint. He'd lightened up a good deal in just seven years, why can't he mellow more over the next 20+?

 

[Yistaan]

I don't think Picard lets people get away with calling him JL normally (such as the normal course of operation in TNG). But Raffi joined up with Picard in a high stakes evacuation situation and I guess Picard didn't bother quibbling with the nickname because Raffi was good at her job and more important things were at stake.

 

[saladdays]

While it may seem odd, at least at first, for Raffi to call him JL, the fact she does helps to define her character (and possible changes in Picard) in a way that more exposition may not even be able to.

 

[Longinus]

Picard is my favourite Trek character and I'd claim I understand him pretty well. This did not seem particularly odd to me. Picard is not nearly as rigid as many here seem to think and certainly already showed obvious signs of mellowing during TNG.

 

[Yistaan]

Picard is my favourite Trek character and I'd claim I understand him pretty well. This did not seem particularly odd to me. Picard is not nearly as rigid as many here seem to think and certainly already showed obvious signs of mellowing during TNG.

And for all we know JL started as a code word. To say Picard has a tense history with the Romulans is an understatement, and perhaps in early negotiations he was called JL to not shock the Romulans that Jean Luc Picard, genetic twin of ousted Praetor Shinzon, foiler of the invasion of Vulcan, etc. was the one entering Romulan space and leading an evacuation.

 

[Hythlodeus]

The question is: Would Riker ever call Picard JL? Because he wouldn't. That wasn't his personality. Raffi, of course is not Riker and Picard is not the "no kids on my bridge" Picard of TNG S1 any longer

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It's out of character for him to be OK with a junior officer calling him "JL", almost as much so as the Nemesis driving scene.



She didn't, I was just using it as an example to call him JL in a really casual manner.

You don't "lighten up" that much with age, it's a personality trait transplant.

Why are you so bent out of shape over what one fictional character calls another? And why do you care when the fictional character being called the affectionate nickname doesn't care? Come on let's get to the heart of the issue.

 

[Yistaan]

Why are you so bent out of shape over what one fictional character calls another? And why do you care when the fictional character being called the affectionate nickname doesn't care? Come on let's get to the heart of the issue.

Because many remember in Nemesis in a deleted scene, arguably the last time we saw Picard, he had a bad reaction to his new first officer calling him Jean-Luc.

 

[Longinus]

Because many remember in Nemesis in a deleted scene, arguably the last time we saw Picard, he had a bad reaction to his new first officer calling him Jean-Luc.

Madden really didn't have the cadence or confidence to pull it off.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Because many remember in Nemesis in a deleted scene, arguably the last time we saw Picard, he had a bad reaction to his new first officer calling him Jean-Luc.

a) this was a new First Officer he hardly knew and b) JL most certainly knew Riker was pulling the new guy's leg

Raffi served with JL for many years and earned that right, which Madden at that point simply hadn't

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Because many remember in Nemesis in a deleted scene, arguably the last time we saw Picard, he had a bad reaction to his new first officer calling him Jean-Luc.

You're comparing someone who had known him for all of 2 seconds to someone he had apparently been working with for some time. Plus it's a deleted scene which means it probably doesn't count

 

[Yistaan]

You're comparing someone who had known him for all of 2 seconds to someone he had apparently been working with for some time. Plus it's a deleted scene which means it probably doesn't count

a) this was a new First Officer he hardly knew and b) JL most certainly knew Riker was pulling the new guy's leg

Raffi served with JL for many years and earned that right, which Madden at that point simply hadn't

You're making the assumption that Raffi "earned" anything especially as the Picard comic strongly implies she always called him JL.

Also, as a man, I myself acknowledge that men often let women get away with things they wouldn't let men do. It's not fair or equal, but it happens.

@Agony_Boothb @Hythlodeus Wesley proved himself over multiple times and wasn't believed when he said Data was replaced with Lore. So much for "earning" rights huh? Meanwhile Dahj's outrageous story is believed first time.

It comes down to dislike or like that's it. A coworker I "knew" for years and proved myself to over repeatedly won't accept a facebook friend request. Someone else I meet first time gladly accepts it.

 

[BillJ]

Also, as a man, I myself acknowledge that men often let women get away with things they wouldn't let men do. It's not fair or equal, but it happens.

There it is!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

So much for "earning" rights huh?

Is that in quotations because it's a codeword for SJW?

 

[Hythlodeus]

@Agony_Boothb @Hythlodeus Wesley proved himself over multiple times and wasn't believed when he said Data was replaced with Lore. So much for "earning" rights huh?

At that point, Wesley was part of the bridge crew for one, maybe two weeks and even his own mother didn't believe him