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Worst tos episode

I watched a couple of episodes of STC. I appreciate that there are people out there who love TOS so much that they make a labor of love like this. But I can't do it. I can't watch it. The acting isn't good, those people look nothing like they're supposed to, it is NOT GOOD. I want to like it. I can't.
There's always a certain hurtle that's necessary to overcome with fan films, to be sure.

I will say that a particular stand-out amongst the cast was Todd Haberkorn as Spock. From the jump, he had the character down in a way that feels authentic to Spock, but isn't a copy of Nimoy or Quinto's performances. I honestly think he's right up there with all the official Spocks.
 
There's always a certain hurtle that's necessary to overcome with fan films, to be sure.

I will say that a particular stand-out amongst the cast was Todd Haberkorn as Spock. From the jump, he had the character down in a way that feels authentic to Spock, but isn't a copy of Nimoy or Quinto's performances. I honestly think he's right up there with all the official Spocks.

I disliked Quinto as Spock, and it would be a really tough call between Peck and Haberkorn. I would have to see Peck playing 5YM Spock to really compare, though.
 
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I watched a couple of episodes of STC. I appreciate that there are people out there who love TOS so much that they make a labor of love like this. But I can't do it. I can't watch it. The acting isn't good, those people look nothing like they're supposed to, it is NOT GOOD. I want to like it. I can't.
I am in the same boat, especially with Spock and McCoy. It doesn't land.
 
"Way to Eden" is by no means a great episode, but imo it has a few decent elements that save it from being among the worst of the worst... I like that Chekov gets some more backstory.

It oddly fits. "Season 3 Chekov" aside as his personality was tweaked to be more serious and less jokey/buttofjokes as backhanded compliments, etc, he went to the Academy and Irina was there. She dropped out. It's a perfect little subplot, even if - among other changes - Irina was supposed to be Joanna (McCoy's kid), but nixing the familial association keeps the too-indulgent small universe syndrome from overtaking anything else. And this story was loaded with too much that none of its ideas got explored effectively. Even the hippies, between the sincere, the insane, and the opportunistic. The veneer is there but with no chance to explore. What little we do get becomes a feast for supposition. Shame everyone hates the bloody episode as otherwise there's more fun to be had in discussing any of the following:
  • ill-fated love interest instead of a how-to for fawning for codependence
  • religion (Herbert Armstrong, y'all, it's way too much a coincidence with his published book, and excesses that arguably teeter into cult territory too)
  • too much technology
  • the cool cats who try to understand, like Spock
  • too little technology ain't no picnic either
  • synthetic diseases and the potential for transmission
  • cults and the facets within (e.g. the hippies, and arguably Herbert - in arguably multiple ways, even the facets have facets...)
  • turncoat officers (only this time for an ideal, and not for merely having the hots for the leader, thank you Lt McGivers but at lof us still resemble your remark, hehehehe!)
So much potential. So little gelled. :(

I like that Spock, of all people, somewhat sympathizes with the hippies, which adds an interesting facet on his feeling of alienation (no pun intended) due to being trapped between the cultures. And although the hippies are mostly a cliché, I find their portrayal historically immensely interesting (the episode *is* a document from 1968/69, after all).

It's subtle enough for sure. Spock knows and in a unique way, while remaining clinical enough to observe from a more logical point of view.

The hippies alone easily could have had the hour devoted to nuances within their ranks and motivations. We know Sevrin is insane. In observation, who the sincere and unfortunate followers are, vs opportunists like Rad*, are hinted at but never dived into and it's a shame. But screen time was limited, and the phony drama about "muh neutraaallll zooonnneeee!" combined with exploring Chekov's pants had to be given that screen time with his bickering against his former-yet-not-quite-former lovebunny interest (Irina) over dropping out and all that.

* no relation to the 80s term, but that ties into another point below...

Plus, Kirk and Spock are called "Herbert", which I find somewhat funny, despite its silliness. 🤪

Silly to us, without a frame of understanding. As the times change, new or existing words can and do change meanings. Using an actual person's name as a pejorative designation regarding an action/attitude is not too much different. Some people do think it's a sick idea, but back in my day we were on the porch in rocking chairs saying "bad means good" so what else is new. 🤪 :devil::guffaw:
 
Zooming in on the womens’ butts was the directors’ questionable and unusual choice for artistic flare…

mudds-women-br-124.jpg


…as was having crewmen leer at those same butts.

mudds-women-br-123.jpg
And in the "enlightened" 80s they had a lot of close ups on Troi's breasts in the early seasons. Until she got a proper uniform or until GR had less to do with it?
My worst episode is "That Which Survives". Spock is such a d^#*^&bag. Kirk isn't much better. Mark of Gideon is pretty stupid too.
I like Plato's Stepchildren. Its one of my favourites. I don't know why everyone hates The Alternative Factor.
However every episode of TOS is really great and I wish there were 100s more. :cool:
 
I hesitate to say "worst," but three that, having viewed them, bear little resemblance to whatever it is that Star Trek means to me are:

Who Mourns For Adonais; Plato's Stepchildren; The Way to Eden

Only three out of seventy-nine, or whatever the number is, is pretty darn good. YMMV
 
I hesitate to say "worst," but three that, having viewed them, bear little resemblance to whatever it is that Star Trek means to me are:

Who Mourns For Adonais; Plato's Stepchildren; The Way to Eden

Only three out of seventy-nine, or whatever the number is, is pretty darn good. YMMV
Solid point of view and I understand it. I like "Who Mourns?" a lot, but I can see why it would fall short in that regard.
 
Solid point of view and I understand it. I like "Who Mourns?" a lot, but I can see why it would fall short in that regard.
Everybody has his own Star Trek. I give "Who Mourns" high marks, myself. The music is great, Michael Forest and Leslie Parrish are fantastic, and Shatner is in top form as Kirk.

Also regarding the guest stars: the cinematography that captures their striking looks is rich and vivid. You'll never see this on Adam-12. "Who Mourns" is more like a painted masterpiece.

Fred Steiner, who composed the score, liked this episode too and said so.
 
[Regarding sexism in TOS], it was the 60s I guess
In the 90s I used to hear people say, "well that was in the 60s. It was a completely different time." I thought, "Yeah, you can't compared anything modern with that ancient time period."

But now I hear the same thing about the 90s being completely different. Many things look the same if you remember them in 4k.
 
I am in the same boat, especially with Spock and McCoy. It doesn't land.

The first couple episodes with Larry Nemecek i completely agree on McCoy, but the guy they replaced him with is pretty good; I just wish they had used him properly with the other two, but that dynamic was ruined with McKenna. I really, really enjoyed Todd Haberkorn's portrayal of Spock, and think that it nailed a certain layer of the characterization that most other versions have missed completely. There were times that Vic looked so much like Shatner it was downright creepy, but then he'd talk and sound like Archer instead. lol.
 
The relationship between Kirk and Spock is something the NV/Phase II films kinda missed. Maybe because of the revolving door Spock's and the emphasis on the higher level guest actors but STC did a better job. But you can't recreate natural chemistry.

Vic was too old and sounded like he sucked helium before shooting but he gave it his all without a lot of overt Shatner imitation.
 
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"The Alternative Factor" is really weird, to the point of flawed, and "And the Children Shall Lead" aggravating, to real bad, but at least they do seem to know they are and deliberately go into that.

Don't get hate for "The Way to Eden", also really out there but I think overall mixed success but pretty successful, a lot more than you would think either from the basic concept or the reactions, I think did well in showing why, how many people found hippies to be obnoxious and at the same time many others found them to be admirable, really appealing, at very least interesting, think it was about as sympathetic to them as it could be (and also as they are offputting as it kind of had to be).

I do think "Metamorphosis" is real bad, really overrated, but the worst are very much "That Which Survives" and "Spock's Brain".
 
THE EMPATH, REQUIEM FOR METHUSELAH and METAMORPHOSIS and 74 other episodes could never be as bad as AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD. But while there are indeed dramatic elements in those first three, they represent a pinnacle trilogy of overall dullness only 95 percent of TNG episodes could match.

I left out SPOCK'S BRAIN, ALTERNATIVE FACTOR and WAY TO EDEN because of their respective moments of camaderie, the good Lazarus, and accidental musical humor.
 
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"The Cloud Minders" was so dull... And Spock was acting terribly out-of-character with all that Droxine nonsense, at least during the first part. Also, it kind of justified the class separation, by making the lower, working class actually less intelligent and more violent. That is, it wasn't just a prejudice of the privileged class; it was a real thing. And the only solution they found was making those people wear those damned masks...
I recently re-watched "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and didn't like it either. It seems to place the oppressors and the oppressed at the same level, or equally guilty, once the oppressed strike back.
"The Omega Glory" was pretty embarrassing in the final parts, but at least it had some fun moments.
 
"The Cloud Minders" was so dull... And Spock was acting terribly out-of-character with all that Droxine nonsense, at least during the first part. Also, it kind of justified the class separation, by making the lower, working class actually less intelligent and more violent. That is, it wasn't just a prejudice of the privileged class; it was a real thing. And the only solution they found was making those people wear those damned masks...
I recently re-watched "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and didn't like it either. It seems to place the oppressors and the oppressed at the same level, or equally guilty, once the oppressed strike back.

Not sure how you think those concepts could have, should have been better depicted and especially resolved, especially with only having some 50 minutes to do so. Especially striking that you disliked both when the outcomes were real different, "The Cloud Minders" that things would begin to improve significantly steadily albeit slowly and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" so bleakly that there had been just failure and destruction down to just two people who even they would still just try to destroy each other.

"Kirk fixes things, by getting rid of the (computer) problem" was the much more often used resolution, I thought both of those unexpected resolutions were a lot better.
 
Not sure how you think those concepts could have, should have been better depicted and especially resolved, especially with only having some 50 minutes to do so. Especially striking that you disliked both when the outcomes were real different, "The Cloud Minders" that things would begin to improve significantly steadily albeit slowly and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" so bleakly that there had been just failure and destruction down to just two people who even they would still just try to destroy each other.

"Kirk fixes things, by getting rid of the (computer) problem" was the much more often used resolution, I thought both of those unexpected resolutions were a lot better.
My criticism has nothing to do with the plot devices used in the episodes, or whether they're original or not. It's all about the underlying message.
These episodes didn't exist in a vacuum, they were addressing real world issues going on at the time (and still going on today), and the message they put forward was very, very unfortunate. In fact, the original script for "The Cloud Minders" was very different, and the original message was perverted in the rewrite. This is what David Gerrold said about his first script (taken from Memory Alpha):

In the end, as the Enterprise breaks orbit, Kirk remarks on this, as if inaugurating the problem-solving procedure is the same as solving the problem. He pats himself on the back and says, "We've got them talking. It's just a matter of time until they find the right direction." And McCoy who is standing right next to him, looks at him and says, "Yes, but how many children will die in the meantime?"
This answer was not a facile one; the viewer was meant to be left as uneasy as Kirk.
But in the telecast version, the whole problem was caused by Zenite gas in the mines, and "
if we can just get them troglytes to all wear gas masks, then they'll be happy little darkies and they'll pick all the cotton we need..."
Somehow, I think it lost something in the translation."
 
I think it would have been nice for the crew to realize, admit that their reform was actually really small, minimal, and it would take a long time for things to really get better but I think "The City on the Edge of Forever" and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (and I guess "Requiem for Methuselah") are pretty much the only episodes that didn't end on a light/feel-good note, given that I think hard to be too disappointed that "The Cloud Minders" wasn't another of that very rare exception.
 
And here I always thought zenyte was a stand-in for lead poisoning, the problems of which had become a controversy in the 50s, 60s and 70s.
 
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