Worst Third Superhero Movie

[exodus]

Of course, in the movie they never got to the point where it turned out that Rogue CAN control her powers and it's all psychological. But that would have taken too long.

I'm glad because then she wouldn't be "Rogue" anymore.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm also of the mind that Rogue shouldn't have taken the Cure. For people saying that it fit with her character arc, I just don't see how that's possible. The whole point of the X-Men is accepting who you are and not changing who you are despite prejudice and despite prosecution. By taking the Cure, it just shows that Rogue was not strong enough to accept herself and it doesn't fit with the themes of the X-Men at all. It's understandable on a human level- but at the same time it doesn't really send the right message. I'm sure Rogue would want to take the Cure, but I'm not quite sure that was the best decision. It was kind of selfish and it just didn't sit right with me. It's like, what if they had a cure for homosexuality... would you take it? Many people I know feel like they are cursed with homosexuality and they see it as an affliction, but by doing that, they remove a part of who they are. By showing Rogue taking the Cure it really just completely contrasted with the ideology of the X-Men comics and sent out the wrong message in my opinion.

If you equate Rogue's ability with homosexuality, then it's giving the impression the being affectionate toward one is deadly. Rogue is more that just her code name, it's her state of being. She will always be alone due to her powers. Rigue is not the wild child friom the 80's that's invulerable, she's a teen aged girl going through puberty and should socially interacting/flirting but can't. We saw in the first X-Men that even her own classmates were afraid of her, due to a simple this such as touch. What's the point of equality if even you're own kind fears you? Too be Rogue is a living hell and it doesn't send the wrong message IMO if you understand the character.

Not every story in X-Men relates to thr fight for equality on the whole. All of them have little personal battles to fight, this is hers.

Rogue's story in 3 felt very unfinished. If they make 4 I hope she gets her powers back and ends up stealing Ms Marvel type powers so they can get some mileage out of having two minds in one head. They can even do a multiple personality plot where Carol takes over and turns meek Rogue into a kick ass hero - a bit Aurora-esque but since they have limited time to tell a story it could be a fun plotline - fun for the actress to play two distinct characters and heart-rending when Carol has to give up being in control to become an echo in Rogue's head again.

 

[exodus]

I'm also of the mind that Rogue shouldn't have taken the Cure. For people saying that it fit with her character arc, I just don't see how that's possible. The whole point of the X-Men is accepting who you are and not changing who you are despite prejudice and despite prosecution. By taking the Cure, it just shows that Rogue was not strong enough to accept herself and it doesn't fit with the themes of the X-Men at all. It's understandable on a human level- but at the same time it doesn't really send the right message. I'm sure Rogue would want to take the Cure, but I'm not quite sure that was the best decision. It was kind of selfish and it just didn't sit right with me. It's like, what if they had a cure for homosexuality... would you take it? Many people I know feel like they are cursed with homosexuality and they see it as an affliction, but by doing that, they remove a part of who they are. By showing Rogue taking the Cure it really just completely contrasted with the ideology of the X-Men comics and sent out the wrong message in my opinion.

If you equate Rogue's ability with homosexuality, then it's giving the impression the being affectionate toward one is deadly. Rogue is more that just her code name, it's her state of being. She will always be alone due to her powers. Rigue is not the wild child friom the 80's that's invulerable, she's a teen aged girl going through puberty and should socially interacting/flirting but can't. We saw in the first X-Men that even her own classmates were afraid of her, due to a simple this such as touch. What's the point of equality if even you're own kind fears you? Too be Rogue is a living hell and it doesn't send the wrong message IMO if you understand the character.

Not every story in X-Men relates to thr fight for equality on the whole. All of them have little personal battles to fight, this is hers.

Rogue's story in 3 felt very unfinished. If they make 4 I hope she gets her powers back and ends up stealing Ms Marvel type powers so they can get some mileage out of having two minds in one head. They can even do a multiple personality plot where Carol takes over and turns meek Rogue into a kick ass hero - a bit Aurora-esque but since they have limited time to tell a story it could be a fun plotline - fun for the actress to play two distinct characters and heart-rending when Carol has to give up being in control to become an echo in Rogue's head again.

I don't think Rogue needs to be a kick ass to be cool or develope more plots for her. I think it's just as interesting writing stories for a character that's on a stike force team but has no as for seen useful abilities on the battlefield. It's bring into question, what purpose does Rogue serve in the team? Which brings up further issues of isolation. That's why I found Singer's ideas for X-Men so great. He didn't focus in the powers but rather the ideas & stories that kept us reading the comic.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I haven't seen Blade: Trinity, X-Men: The Last Stand, or Spiderman 3. So, I'll go with Batman Forever.

Superman III at least has its moments - little to no Lois Lane, the junkyard fight, Superman getting drunk, and Richard Pryor.

 

[Anwar]

Well, the problem is that Venom is only good for like 30 minutes of a movie. His whole schtick is ripped off from the Green Goblin, and it would just seem like a Harry rehash if they did that. He's not a strong enough character to do a lot with.

I disagree.
Venom is far worse than Green Goblin.
Venom was in Peter's head.
It knows what he knows, what he thinks & what he feels and why. Venom is the ultimate stalker. No where you can go is safe. It's the type of thing where you wake up in the middle of the night and he's hanging over you, watching..........or worse, hanging over Mary Jane's bed watching her. He's like having the worst of yourself combined with the high school bully on steroids as your worst enemy.

But that's the whole thing. In his entire history Venom has never done anything with his knowledge of Peter, he just stalks him for a while and then gets beat up and sent to jail. It never made any sense why he'd fear Venom so much more than the Goblin, when the Goblin also knew his secrets and DID STUFF with his knowledge of Peter. Venom has never thought to reveal Peter's secrets, or threaten his loved ones, or do ANYTHING worse than just stalk him for a while.

And the Goblin also knew how to jam the Spider-Sense as well as neutralize Peter's powers.

 

[Anwar]

Rogue's story in 3 felt very unfinished. If they make 4 I hope she gets her powers back and ends up stealing Ms Marvel type powers so they can get some mileage out of having two minds in one head. They can even do a multiple personality plot where Carol takes over and turns meek Rogue into a kick ass hero - a bit Aurora-esque but since they have limited time to tell a story it could be a fun plotline - fun for the actress to play two distinct characters and heart-rending when Carol has to give up being in control to become an echo in Rogue's head again.

Rogue doesn't need Ms Marvel's powers to be a great character. Just look at how well done she was in X-Men Evolution without extra powers.

 

[JacksonArcher]

If you equate Rogue's ability with homosexuality, then it's giving the impression the being affectionate toward one is deadly. Rogue is more that just her code name, it's her state of being. She will always be alone due to her powers. [Rogue] is not the wild child friom the 80's that's invulerable, she's a teen aged girl going through puberty and should socially interacting/flirting but can't. We saw in the first X-Men that even her own classmates were afraid of her, due to a simple this such as touch. What's the point of equality if even you're own kind fears you? Too be Rogue is a living hell and it doesn't send the wrong message IMO if you understand the character.

We saw in X2 that she was gradually becoming more confident and able with her abilities. Yes, she was having problems being intimate with Bobby, but she was able to stand up for herself with Magneto and even used her powers to stop Pyro from getting out of control.

There's this saying that usually the right thing to do and the hard thing to do is usually the same -- and I think in this instance that saying works here. Being Rogue, I'm sure, is very hard but being a mutant is difficult in itself. Just because you have the option of being "normal" (and really, what IS normal?) doesn't mean that you have to take it. By nullifying yourself, by removing a part of yourself that makes you who you are, in my opinion that just kind of defeats the purpose of individuality.

Not every story in X-Men relates to thr fight for equality on the whole. All of them have little personal battles to fight, this is hers.

Her personal battle should be to accept herself, and not take the easy route. That's why they're X-Men -- they fight the battles, from without and from within, because they believe in equality, they believe in being yourself, even when others hate and fear them. To understand and accept yourself is the greatest battle of all. I personally believe Rogue failed that battle in X-Men: The Last Stand. The film made it out that she cured herself for a boy -- a boy that nearly cheated on her in the first place, consequently diluting his character -- when all is said and done that relationship might not even work out in the end anyway.

What happens to her now? She obviously can't be on the X-Men, and does she deserve to be on the team anyway? She doesn't really fit in a school with mutants who fight the hard fight to deal with their abilities when she took the easy route and just had them removed. Living life is not always easy, and is often difficult with a lot of hardship, but fighting for who you are and dealing with that hardship is a big part of life. By just removing that part of herself that makes her unique, it just sends out the message that, "Hey, if you have it hard, you can take this cure and be normal". I just can't seem to really agree with that mentality. Rogue's gonna have it hard in life anyway -- she's going to have to deal with people who don't accept her for her personal flaws, for her interests, for her likes -- so might as well deal with that and learn to live with herself. I think she'll end up being a stronger person as a result -- someone who fights for what they believe in and for who they are. To me that's the whole point of the X-Men.

 

[Servo]

The biggest thing that pisses me off about Spider-man 3 is the Exposition News Channel.

Isn't all news exposition for the general public?

 

[exodus]

If you equate Rogue's ability with homosexuality, then it's giving the impression the being affectionate toward one is deadly. Rogue is more that just her code name, it's her state of being. She will always be alone due to her powers. [Rogue] is not the wild child friom the 80's that's invulerable, she's a teen aged girl going through puberty and should socially interacting/flirting but can't. We saw in the first X-Men that even her own classmates were afraid of her, due to a simple this such as touch. What's the point of equality if even you're own kind fears you? Too be Rogue is a living hell and it doesn't send the wrong message IMO if you understand the character.

We saw in X2 that she was gradually becoming more confident and able with her abilities. Yes, she was having problems being intimate with Bobby, but she was able to stand up for herself with Magneto and even used her powers to stop Pyro from getting out of control.

There's this saying that usually the right thing to do and the hard thing to do is usually the same -- and I think in this instance that saying works here. Being Rogue, I'm sure, is very hard but being a mutant is difficult in itself. Just because you have the option of being "normal" (and really, what IS normal?) doesn't mean that you have to take it. By nullifying yourself, by removing a part of yourself that makes you who you are, in my opinion that just kind of defeats the purpose of individuality.

Not every story in X-Men relates to thr fight for equality on the whole. All of them have little personal battles to fight, this is hers.

Her personal battle should be to accept herself, and not take the easy route. That's why they're X-Men -- they fight the battles, from without and from within, because they believe in equality, they believe in being yourself, even when others hate and fear them. To understand and accept yourself is the greatest battle of all. I personally believe Rogue failed that battle in X-Men: The Last Stand. The film made it out that she cured herself for a boy -- a boy that nearly cheated on her in the first place, consequently diluting his character -- when all is said and done that relationship might not even work out in the end anyway.

What happens to her now? She obviously can't be on the X-Men, and does she deserve to be on the team anyway? She doesn't really fit in a school with mutants who fight the hard fight to deal with their abilities when she took the easy route and just had them removed. Living life is not always easy, and is often difficult with a lot of hardship, but fighting for who you are and dealing with that hardship is a big part of life. By just removing that part of herself that makes her unique, it just sends out the message that, "Hey, if you have it hard, you can take this cure and be normal". I just can't seem to really agree with that mentality. Rogue's gonna have it hard in life anyway -- she's going to have to deal with people who don't accept her for her personal flaws, for her interests, for her likes -- so might as well deal with that and learn to live with herself. I think she'll end up being a stronger person as a result -- someone who fights for what they believe in and for who they are. To me that's the whole point of the X-Men.

I'm sorry that's absurd.
You're asking someone that's walking death to except it.
Unless they're a psychopath, I don't think any sane person could ever except that.
If we accept X-Men films as some what real world believable, the Rogue you describe doesn't fit into that.

If X-Men preaches equality, then they're hypocritical to kick Rogue out just for not being a mutant anymore. That's also discrimination.
I guess we've forgotten this but the school used to have teachers/characters in it that were regular humans. Stevie the dance instructor was one of them.

 

[Anwar]

If this was Rogue who could do more than steal others life then you'd have a point. But this is a Rogue who can only hurt others, she's being RESPONSIBLE for choosing that path.

 

[exodus]

If this was Rogue who could do more than steal others life then you'd have a point. But this is a Rogue who can only hurt others, she's being RESPONSIBLE for choosing that path.

Exactly.

 

[Pauln6]

I don't think Rogue needs to be a kick ass to be cool or develope more plots for her. I think it's just as interesting writing stories for a character that's on a stike force team but has no as for seen useful abilities on the battlefield. It's bring into question, what purpose does Rogue serve in the team? Which brings up further issues of isolation. That's why I found Singer's ideas for X-Men so great. He didn't focus in the powers but rather the ideas & stories that kept us reading the comic.

Singer did a great job with Rogue, especially in X1. I agree that the strength of the first two was NOT making the story about the powers and I loved the understated way the first movie dealt with their abilities. However, I started to worry as soon as I heard the theme music to X2 and sure enough they amped up the powers and explosions quite a bit. They went even further in X3 to the detriment of the characterisation (particularly Jean) and if they keep doing it, Rogue's little traumas would not be able to contribute.

This is an ensemble piece and each character must at least be able to help move the plot forward or she'll be left at home. For me the story would be about her coping with somebody else's personality trying to take control of her mind, made more interesting because Carol is actually the victim - the powers are secondary but at least allow her to be up there in a fight.

I think X4 should be about the Morlock massacre and the Marauders. An alternative would be to leave Rogue de-powered and involve her in the defence of the wounded morlocks at the X-mansion when Sabretooth comes calling (the role was originally Psylocke's in the comic) or exile her to Muir Island with the wounded for a B-plot in X5 (we need to think ahead - get me Singer's phone number - stat).

 

[Anwar]

This is why X-Men would work better as a TV show than as a movie series. Too much stuff for movies, but good material for a TV show.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I'm sorry that's absurd.

I'm sorry you think my opinion is absurd.

You're asking someone that's walking death to except it.

I'm asking someone to accept who they are and be okay with who they are. Life is full of complications. Full of dealing with things we don't want to deal with. We have to take what we're given in this world and deal with it. Not run away from it. Not hide from it. Not get rid of it.

Unless they're a psychopath, I don't think any sane person could ever except that.

She seemed accepting in the first two movies. Only when presented with this idea in the third film then we must assume she should automatically take the Cure, when there was an alternate ending shot where she didn't take the Cure. Obviously the filmmakers didn't even truly know what to do with the character -- they just chose the ending they did because they thought it would be "provocative".

However, even if that ending might suggest a much layered conversation, it really flies in the face of the character's development for the past two movies. It's a cop-out of a "character resolution" -- where we didn't even see the thought-process it took for her to reach that conclusion. I might've bought it had we seen some actual exploration and development of that idea, but instead we get a generalization which isn't satisfying enough.

The Rogue from the end of X2 seemed willing to accept her powers and her lifestyle. The Rogue we saw in X-Men: The Last Stand was a complete deviation from two movies' worth of development. Unless you think a character starting out feeling insecure should go from feeling less insecure to then right back where she was in the first place. That's not character progression; that's character regression. By taking the Cure, it makes the character uninteresting and devoid of any actual development so Rogue just took the easy route and didn't really take into consideration the character advancement she made from the last two movies.

If we accept X-Men films as some what real world believable, the Rogue you describe doesn't fit into that.

I don't know. If there was a cure for whatever made me individual, I wouldn't take it. If I had Rogue's powers, I wouldn't take the Cure. I would accept my individuality, but that's just me. Obviously the topic subjects itself to individual interpretation which is fine. I'm not condemning Rogue for taking the Cure, however I am saying it is wholly inconsistent with her character from the first two films and saying I don't agree with her decision at all.

If X-Men preaches equality, then they're hypocritical to kick Rogue out just for not being a mutant anymore. That's also discrimination.

I wasn't saying they would kick her out. I'm saying she really doesn't have a place at the school as a human. Which makes her character devoid of any purpose in any future installment. It also makes her character that much less interesting and important. It's honestly a much less interesting direction for her character.

I guess we've forgotten this but the school used to have teachers/characters in it that were regular humans. Stevie the dance instructor was one of them.

Sure! Rogue could become the dance instructor! That's definitely a life-fulfilling role and an interesting character advancement! Going from a member of the X-Men to a dance instructor! Wahoo! So exciting.

 

[Anwar]

She was hardly a member of the X-Men to begin with, she didn't go on missions or anything. She was just another student.

 

[Admiral2]

Spider-Man III. There was absolutely no reason for Venom to be in it and the Harry Osborn part of it was just gay. It should have just been Spidey versus Sandman in a revenge grudge match.

 

[JacksonArcher]

She was hardly a member of the X-Men to begin with, she didn't go on missions or anything. She was just another student.

I'll agree her role got progressively marginalized as the series went on, similar to Cyclops, however at least Rogue played a decently big role in the first movie and actually contributed to the events of the second movie (she stopped Pyro, and flew the X-Jet to pick-up and save the X-Men). I'm not quite sure what she did in the third film...

 

[exodus]

I'm sorry that's absurd.

I'm sorry you think my opinion is absurd.

You're asking someone that's walking death to except it.

I'm asking someone to accept who they are and be okay with who they are. Life is full of complications. Full of dealing with things we don't want to deal with. We have to take what we're given in this world and deal with it. Not run away from it. Not hide from it. Not get rid of it.



She seemed accepting in the first two movies. Only when presented with this idea in the third film then we must assume she should automatically take the Cure, when there was an alternate ending shot where she didn't take the Cure. Obviously the filmmakers didn't even truly know what to do with the character -- they just chose the ending they did because they thought it would be "provocative".

However, even if that ending might suggest a much layered conversation, it really flies in the face of the character's development for the past two movies. It's a cop-out of a "character resolution" -- where we didn't even see the thought-process it took for her to reach that conclusion. I might've bought it had we seen some actual exploration and development of that idea, but instead we get a generalization which isn't satisfying enough.

The Rogue from the end of X2 seemed willing to accept her powers and her lifestyle. The Rogue we saw in X-Men: The Last Stand was a complete deviation from two movies' worth of development. Unless you think a character starting out feeling insecure should go from feeling less insecure to then right back where she was in the first place. That's not character progression; that's character regression. By taking the Cure, it makes the character uninteresting and devoid of any actual development so Rogue just took the easy route and didn't really take into consideration the character advancement she made from the last two movies.



I don't know. If there was a cure for whatever made me individual, I wouldn't take it. If I had Rogue's powers, I wouldn't take the Cure. I would accept my individuality, but that's just me. Obviously the topic subjects itself to individual interpretation which is fine. I'm not condemning Rogue for taking the Cure, however I am saying it is wholly inconsistent with her character from the first two films and saying I don't agree with her decision at all.

If X-Men preaches equality, then they're hypocritical to kick Rogue out just for not being a mutant anymore. That's also discrimination.

I wasn't saying they would kick her out. I'm saying she really doesn't have a place at the school as a human. Which makes her character devoid of any purpose in any future installment. It also makes her character that much less interesting and important. It's honestly a much less interesting direction for her character.

I guess we've forgotten this but the school used to have teachers/characters in it that were regular humans. Stevie the dance instructor was one of them.

Sure! Rogue could become the dance instructor! That's definitely a life-fulfilling role and an interesting character advancement! Going from a member of the X-Men to a dance instructor! Wahoo! So exciting.

I would expect Rogue to be different by X3 if she kept touching people and adding more personalities to her psyche. I would think not wishing to be schizophrenic would be another sure fire reason to take the cure.

Storm is one example out of many showing that a character can loose their abilities & still be just as important and interesting as she was when she had them. Storm didn't even need powers to whoop Cyclope's ass and become leader. A creative writer can make a character interesting without the use of any powers.

 

[Anwar]

Actually, Storm's tactic to defeat Cyclops in the comics really was silly. Her plan only worked if her enemy wasn't trying to kill her. If she had fought against anyone else that way, she'd have lost.

It was just some way of getting Cyclops out of there.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Spider-Man III was an utter train wreck from start to finish. Easily one of the worst films I've ever seen.